249 replies to this topic

[Chronodiggity]

Pharoahe is even more gospel, and it's actually better than Graduation. Definitely recommend that to all Kanye fans.

[The Luscious Phil]

Kanye's flows aren't great, but they are not monotonous. They all may slightly sloppy and a little awkward, but they are pretty endearing.


Likewise his production is far from "kitchen sink." It's lush yes, but he has quite a bit of restraint.

I'm a little bit T.I., you're a little bit Kanye West

Actually, I love T.I. (as a rapper) far more than I do Kanye. But there is room enough in my heart for both of them.

I am actually surprised at how much I keep listening to Graduation. Maybe it is because "Good Morning" is so good that I just keep wanting to hear it, and after it plays i just let the album go.

[Chronodiggity]

I just keep playing Good Morning, but thank God I never get to Stronger.

[Bangs]

The first episode from a series of 5 where Spike Jonze visits Kanye West back while he was finishing up the album went up on VBS.tv today.

http://www.vbs.tv/pl...Tg4N19fVE9EQVk=

[Mitchell]

I think we're going to see nearer to 85 than 83 on MC.

[Jigga]

i feel kanye gets a lot of credit for messing with hipster people like spike jonze. that impresses people.

[arkin]

I'm not sure that most people pay attention to stuff like that. I think he gets a lot of credit for being Kanye. He makes really good records, but he's also kind of a character.

[brobee]

As with all Kanye, this feels good but not great. I really like Good Morning, which is surprising, because I'm not a big fan of the soul-infused hip-hop. Probably the big reason the Pharoahe Monch record didn't stick with me. But that gospel hook is too much, it's great.

I never did get around to listening to that PM album, but Chrono, you might have just convinced me. I love Graduation, and if what you say is true, i'll prolly love that one too.

And i'm saying 80+...

that pharoahe monch album is some kind of beast. it can't sustain itself for the entirety of the record, but there are some jaw-droppers on it. i mean from the intro, to the self-deprecating skits, to the absolute stunners which populate the album's first half, it might just be the most auteuristic hip hop record since deliverance (sub gospel for bluegrass/country). it's admirable, and even better, pretty effing enjoyable a lot of the time.

i'm also in the sept.11th boat for this one. i waited for the other two, i might as well make it a trifecta. he's earned enough trust at this point. and hey, hipster baiting or not, name another rapper, musician for that matter, who is as much fun to follow as kanye. his fickleness is what makes him appealing, makes him relateable. he's less of a character than most rappers.

[redheadstepson]

Desire wasn't very exciting to me. The production is mainly the issue. No one fucks with Kanye when it comes to production, at least in my eyes. The version of Homecoming with John Legend is so much better. I really wish he took out the Chris Martin version and put it on instead, so I don't have to skip track 12 every time I listen to the album.

[Bleep Blop]

Desire wasn't very exciting to me. The production is mainly the issue. No one fucks with Kanye when it comes to production, at least in my eyes.

The version of Homecoming with John Legend is so much better. I really wish he took out the Chris Martin version and put it on instead, so I don't have to skip track 12 every time I listen to the album.

I think the original version from a few years back, "Home", is way better than the version on the album from my first listen of Graduation.

[Jigga]

Desire wasn't very exciting to me. The production is mainly the issue. No one fucks with Kanye when it comes to production, at least in my eyes.

The version of Homecoming with John Legend is so much better. I really wish he took out the Chris Martin version and put it on instead, so I don't have to skip track 12 every time I listen to the album.

fact that dj toomp pretty much co produced the best songs on this album i guess u can show some of that love his way.

[Montana]

I think we're going to see nearer to 85 than 83 on MC.

Which means nothing because MC assigns scores to reviews that gave no score.

[Jigga]

i respect this about Kanye. this is imporatnat.




ps, jon parales in the nytimes didnt like graduation, which just proves old people need to leave this hip hop thing alone, just stay reviewing bruce springsteen etc. u think kids 13-15 give a fk what ppareles got tio say about this album.

here is what he says:




The Ego Sessions: Will Success Spoil Kanye West?
E-MailPrint Save Share
DiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink

By JON PARELES
Published: September 5, 2007
Here’s a concept: starcissism, a pop star’s mixture of self-love, self-promotion, self-absorption and self-awareness. It’s the core of Kanye West’s third album, “Graduation” (Roc-A-Fella), due for release on Tuesday, and yes, he has earned it. But it’s also a letdown.

Skip to next paragraph

Leon Neal/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
The rapper Kanye West, who has a new album, “Graduation,” on which he narrows his focus to himself.

Related
Music from Kanye West's new album, "The Graduation."
"Stronger"By any measure, Mr. West is a success: a multimillion-selling rapper, a Grammy winner, a surefire producer of hits and enough of a public figure to get national attention when he declared, on a televised Hurricane Katrina relief benefit, that “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.” As his songs announce, he was an underdog who had to overcome the hip-hop assumption that producers can’t rap. His delivery — crisp and conversational with a pugnacious undertone — turned out to be not merely adequate but instantly recognizable.

Mr. West is smart, forthright, thoroughly musical and nobody’s fool. On his previous albums, songs like “Jesus Walks” and “Crack Music” connected his own story to wider perspectives: community pride, thoughts of family, questions of purpose and accountability. But now that he’s “major” (as he exulted on his 2005 album “Late Registration”), with a worldwide audience awaiting his album, Mr. West’s horizons are shrinking. This time it’s all about him. He knows it; as the album begins, he calls himself “Mr. Fresh, Mr. ... by his self he’s so impressed.”

On “Graduation,” Mr. West admits that his ego has reached giant proportions. In “Barry Bonds,” in which he compares himself to a different kind of hitmaker, he rhymes, “I’m high up on the line you can get behind me/But my head so big you can’t sit behind me.”

Of course, boasting is the core of hip-hop. No pop style has been so openly fixated on material success. Older genres courted popularity (and wealth) with songs about common experiences and fantasies: love, anger, sorrow, fun. Hip-hop, born in the ghetto, started with competitive boasts and fantasies of dominance and success, back in the days when nothing more than a pair of Adidas could be a status symbol for Run-DMC.

Then came boasts about lives of crime, as thrillers, survival stories and parables of entrepreneurship. As rap grew more popular and more self-referential, rampant individualism became the rule for entire schools of hip-hop. Rappers separated themselves from one another and from their audiences, flaunting their V.I.P. privileges and jewelry collections. They offered their audiences fantasies of stardom and pleasure, to be viewed from the other side of a velvet rope.

Mr. West does his own share of conspicuous consumption. He long ago named himself “the Louis Vuitton don,” and in “Good Morning,” the first song on “Graduation,” he dares to parody a hallowed phrase in African-American culture when he raps, “I’m like the fly Malcolm X, buy any jeans necessary.” In Mr. West’s older songs, like “Diamonds From Sierra Leone (Remix),” he questioned his need for bling. Now he’s more likely just to flaunt it.

At times, he’s still self-conscious. In “Can’t Tell Me Nothing,” Mr. West watches his behavior as a celebrity:

I feel the pressure, under more scrutiny

And what I do? Act more stupidly.

Bought more jewelry, more Louis V

My momma couldn’t get through to me.

But eventually, he decides there’s no need to hold back. “Let that Champagne splash, let that man get cash.”

As his own producer, Mr. West maintains quality control to rival any of the luxury brands he name-drops. Somehow his productions build momentum even when they revolve around a handful of repeated samples. Nearly every song on “Graduation” is memorable for both its hooks and its overall sound.

Mr. West can get Chris Martin of Coldplay to sing the hook on “Homecoming.” He can afford a Steely Dan sample on “Champion.” He has guest appearances from T-Pain, providing a filtered-voice hook on “Good Life,” and from Lil Wayne, free-associating on “Barry Bonds.”

While Mr. West is inordinately fond of soft rock — which helps him reach an audience that shies away from the brittle, freeze-dried productions of hard-core hip-hop — he is also savvy enough to latch on to a hard-nosed electronic hook from Daft Punk in “Stronger,” where he tells a girl, “I’ve been on ya/Since Prince was on Apollonia /Since O. J. had Isotoners.”

“Graduation” has some clever rhymes and some honesty. There are plenty of Mr. West’s latest career reflections, from a half-apology for his tacky outfit on the Grammys to an entire song, “Big Brother,” about his respect for and rivalry with Jay-Z.

But two things are missing from “Graduation.” One is the sense of humor that crackled through songs like Mr. West’s 2005 hit “Gold Digger.” (This album’s tale of a pickup, “Drunk and Hot Girls,” has a pulsating sample from the German rock minimalists Can, but little flair in its lyrics.)

The bigger problem is that on “Graduation,” for the first time, Mr. West can’t see beyond his own fame. “Homecoming” takes lyrics from “Home,” a song Mr. West released on a mixtape. In “Home,” John Legend sang about soldiers who weren’t coming home, while “Homecoming” chides Chicago, his hometown, for not being quite proud enough of his Mr. West’s success.

Every rapper needs a strong ego, and Mr. West deserves his. But where he used to identify with everyday dreamers and strivers, now he seems happy to stay in his V.I.P. zone: all dressed up and behind that velvet rope.

[Montana]

I'd say that's an accurate review. Kanye's skill breaking out was his ability to be kind of humorous and poke fun at how serious some aspects of rap were, but doing so in a musically clever fashion. This thing just sounds like an ego trip and it's boring to boot. I'm sure it will get good scores from all the nerd indie blogs that have to give good scores to at least three rap albums a year, and then more kids will read Metacritic with all the tabulated nerd indie blog reviews(with hyped scores from nerdy, fad e-zines and imaginary Metacritic fairy dust scores) and then you have gullible but well meaning guys like Mitchell saying "It's genius! I knew it! This will definitely make my top ten of the year because metacritic said so". Yeah, awesome, lol.

[Mitchell]

I think we're going to see nearer to 85 than 83 on MC.

Which means nothing because MC assigns scores to reviews that gave no score.

Q: I read Manohla Dargis' review of [MOVIE NAME] and I swear it sounded like a 9... why did you guys say she gave it an 8?

A: Many reviewers include some sort of grade for the movie, album, or game they are reviewing, whether it is on a 5-star scale, a 100-point scale, a letter grade, or other mark. However, plenty of other reviewers choose not to do this. Hey, that's great... they want you to actually read their review rather than just glance at a number. (Personally, we at Metacritic like to read reviews, which is one of the reasons we include a link to every full review on our site.... we want you to read them too!)

However, this does pose a problem for our METASCORE computations, which are based on numbers, not qualitative concepts like art and emotions. (If only all of life were like that!) Thus, our staff must assign a numeric score, from 0-100, to each review that is not already scored by the critic. Naturally, there is some discretion involved here, and there will be times when you disagree with the score we assigned. However, our staffers have read a lot of reviews--and we mean a lot--and thus through experience are able to maintain consistency both from film to film and from reviewer to reviewer. When you read over 200 reviews from Manohla Dargis, you begin to develop a decent idea about when she's indicating a 90 and when she's indicating an 80.

Note, however, that our staff will not attempt to assign super-exact scores like 87 or 43, as doing so would be impossible. Typically, we will work in increments of 10 (so a good review will get a 60, 70, 80, 90, or 100), although in some instances we may also fall halfway in-between (such as a 75).

[Montana]

I think we're going to see nearer to 85 than 83 on MC.

Which means nothing because MC assigns scores to reviews that gave no score.

Q: I read Manohla Dargis' review of [MOVIE NAME] and I swear it sounded like a 9... why did you guys say she gave it an 8?

A: Many reviewers include some sort of grade for the movie, album, or game they are reviewing, whether it is on a 5-star scale, a 100-point scale, a letter grade, or other mark. However, plenty of other reviewers choose not to do this. Hey, that's great... they want you to actually read their review rather than just glance at a number. (Personally, we at Metacritic like to read reviews, which is one of the reasons we include a link to every full review on our site.... we want you to read them too!)

However, this does pose a problem for our METASCORE computations, which are based on numbers, not qualitative concepts like art and emotions. (If only all of life were like that!) Thus, our staff must assign a numeric score, from 0-100, to each review that is not already scored by the critic. Naturally, there is some discretion involved here, and there will be times when you disagree with the score we assigned. However, our staffers have read a lot of reviews--and we mean a lot--and thus through experience are able to maintain consistency both from film to film and from reviewer to reviewer. When you read over 200 reviews from Manohla Dargis, you begin to develop a decent idea about when she's indicating a 90 and when she's indicating an 80.

Note, however, that our staff will not attempt to assign super-exact scores like 87 or 43, as doing so would be impossible. Typically, we will work in increments of 10 (so a good review will get a 60, 70, 80, 90, or 100), although in some instances we may also fall halfway in-between (such as a 75).

Like I said, the site is worthless. Thanks.

[Mitchell]

It's reassuring how consistently wrong about things you can be.

[arkin]

Being reviewed by an old person doesn't excuse the slump in the middle. I understand that some people may not be the right person to write about it, but it is by no means a perfect album. Let's be honest with ourselves now.

[Jigga]

i agree with montana about metacritic. critics read that thing to see how they should review an album theya re not equpiied to judge. why else would a fairly standard gangsta album like the last clipse appear so high in the jazz and pop poll.

[scarymuppet]

Oh man, this album. Those fucking synths. Oh man. I think this is his most consistent album yet. Still need some more time to say whether it's his best overall or not (though I think it might be).

I actually don't mind that he's got rid of the self-deprecation on this album. He's replaced it with just different kinds of humor and wordplay. Besides, anything self-deprecating really doesn't jibe with his persona. The man is working fame like clay and having a great time with it.

Haven't heard anything from Curtis, but I doubt it has a chance.