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Gay marriage


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Poll: Gay marriage

Simple question, simple answer.

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#41 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:13 PM

sg, not all civil unions are recognized equally by states regarding marriage rights. also, let's not forget that last election 14 states made it illegal - get out of our state. so to say there is nothing to be gained is just wrong (without even mentioning rights to be gained under federal recognition). and really, i'm not even sure how/or why this would bother your idea of what marriage should be. if we woke up tomorrow and all gays were married, how exactly would that shatter your own marriage, your father's marriage etc? you are holding on to this traditional idea of what marriage should look and sound like at the risk of discriminating towards others. does everybody have 1.5 inch high lawns and picket fences in your dreams too? your barely ok with gays adopting?

But you know personally, Bleach, I'm totally fine with gay people.

i laughed.

You're getting angry, making ridiculous assumptions, and pigeonholing me. You're intolerant of my view. I didn't get angry.

And yes, I would like civil union rights to be recognized equally statewide. I couldn't put in a 'yay' vote though in this thread without being fully behind it.

#42 red

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:18 PM

Ok, I see your edit, but I don't really understand it. So, you've changed it from saying you are ok with the lifestyle to saying you are ok with gay people. So what does that mean? I understand you have traditional family views, but how does it affect your life or the lives of any other traditional families. So, jon gets married and adopts a child...how does that affect anyone other than jon's family? As for gay adoption, I definitely don't see a problem there. If a child can grow up with 2 loving parents he/she is way ahead of the game. For me everything is one way or the other. I don't understand how it can't be. How you can respect a fellow human being and at the same time deny him or her the same rights as yourself? Edit: I hate the term "gays." I think I'm a gay man trapped inside a woman's body.

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#43 bleach

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:35 PM

ha..not getting angry sg, not even close and

You're intolerant of my view. I didn't get angry.

you are correct. i am intolerant of other people's views when they discriminate. i don't have a problem with that.

I would imagine it would still be an even lengthier process

could be but i wasn't referring to process. these things are easier when a lifestyle is perceived as more traditional. marriage would supply that.
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#44 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:41 PM

Unless the child is also gay, natch.

Heh.

And Bleach, '...holding onto this traditional idea of what marriage should...' makes it sound so insignificant. But to me, or another family traditionalist, it is, which you can't recognize because you don't share the view. I don't take it lightly, I'm barely okay with divorce, I'm completely against marriage without the commitment to the sacrament and anything half-assed. I don't want any of the rules softened because I think they are functional and marriage has already loss it's esteem, that's where my vote comes in. I'm pretty strict when it comes to upholding the ideal, at least I'd like to try to have a beautiful and great marriage. And pretty sure you already knew this about me, so no surprises.

Red, I understand it doesn't affect my life directly, but I feel a vote for it would be seriously hypocritical. That's why I would vote nay. 'Gays' is odd I agree, but it's better than typing homosexuals each time. Gay man trapped in woman's body, now you're just ripping off my joke.

Bleach, I want fairness for them as I said. But I see 'marriage' as religious. So I'm coming from that perspective, which you don't consider because you aren't religious. It's not discrimination, it's voting for what you are about.

#45 Damo Suzuki

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:42 PM

I hate the term "gays."


What do you suggest we call fags then?
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#46 bleach

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:49 PM

yea sg, you may be right about me not understanding your intense relationship with religion, but i do know that 1. while i am not religious i certainly support your right to be married and 2. your beliefs are exclusive - no matter how you feel about it. k, can we talk about abortion now?
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#47 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 07:50 PM

is there a legal distinction between marriage and civil union? why not have everything that goes through a courthouse be called a civil union? if people want to say that they're "married", it's up to them and their church

I didn't see this, but great idea. I could accept this and it's kinda what I'm saying, it's more private.

#48 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:01 PM

yea sg, you may be right about me not understanding your intense relationship with religion

It's less about being super church lady (which I'm not, I have a private kind of faith) than it is respect for the sacrament (which I have) because I think they are very functional.

I'll repeat: A yay vote would be hypocritical and who says my vote should represent everyone?

Bleach use your same argument about abortion. "1. while i am not religious i certainly support your right to be married." While you are not religious would you support someones right to believe in not killing? No, you wouldn't vote that way. You vote for what you can get behind.

I used all those examples of things I'm 'barely' okay with to illustrate it's not discrimination against gays, I'm just trad about marriage.

#49 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:13 PM

Also, Jon, I thought you were bisexual? You've decided that is the way you want to go in regard to a family? Are you even sure of yourself yet? I've enjoyed girls so I wouldn't dare say mixing with the same sex is wrong, I don't know if 'bisexual' is anything other than a willingness to enjoy the same sex. But I wouldn't settle down with one (which obviously means I'm just not gay). I don't know, bisexual is a funny word to me. I see it as a comfort with the idea of same-sex pleasure, so it's bugging me when I'm labeled discriminatory because I'm not even totally straight.

#50 red

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:17 PM

Red, I understand it doesn't affect my life directly, but I feel a vote for it would be seriously hypocritical. That's why I would vote nay. 'Gays' is odd I agree, but it's better than typing homosexuals each time. Gay man trapped in woman's body, now you're just ripping off my joke.

Haha. I've been saying that for about ten years, so no, not ripping off your joke.

Regarding your hypocritical argument, don't you find it at all hypocritical to say you are fine with gay people, but then vote against them? I know it's not exactly the same, but it reminds me of people I know who say, "I don't have a problem with black people..." and then say something prejudice/close minded.

To be honest, and I'm not looking for a cat fight here, from what I know about you from this message board you seem like one of the last people I would expect to hold old fashioned traditions so dear. Especially religious based traditions. It seems a bit odd to me.

Red is right


#51 i-c

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:23 PM

Unless the child is also gay, natch.

Or ugly and needs some strong fashion guidance.

#52 Pavement Ist Rad

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:26 PM

They even have a pill now that lets men make love to each other.
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Damo Suzuki: So, um, yeah. Getting older isn't as bad as it sounds. Better than being young & poor (DjDrake) or young & slutty (SG) or young, poor and slutty (Paves); am I right?

Alright, my friends. It's time for another solid little rock jam

#53 i-c

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:27 PM

Bleach, I want fairness for them as I said. But I see 'marriage' as religious. So I'm coming from that perspective, which you don't consider because you aren't religious. It's not discrimination, it's voting for what you are about.

This means you also do not approve of atheists or agnostics marrying, correct?

#54 Pavement Ist Rad

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:31 PM

Some Girl: what kind of crazy are we talking?

lol

Seriously, though. Gay people are awesome and hilarious. Dudes know how to throw a fuckin' parade. They can get married as long as I don't have to.
Posted Image

Damo Suzuki: So, um, yeah. Getting older isn't as bad as it sounds. Better than being young & poor (DjDrake) or young & slutty (SG) or young, poor and slutty (Paves); am I right?

Alright, my friends. It's time for another solid little rock jam

#55 red

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:33 PM

They even have a pill now that lets men make love to each other.

:lol:

The following gay thread has been re-altered to make it more gay than it was. In fact, now, it may be too gay for some gay people.

Red is right


#56 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:33 PM

Red, I understand it doesn't affect my life directly, but I feel a vote for it would be seriously hypocritical. That's why I would vote nay. 'Gays' is odd I agree, but it's better than typing homosexuals each time. Gay man trapped in woman's body, now you're just ripping off my joke.

Haha. I've been saying that for about ten years, so no, not ripping off your joke.

Regarding your hypocritical argument, don't you find it at all hypocritical to say you are fine with gay people, but then vote against them? I know it's not exactly the same, but it reminds me of people I know who say, "I don't have a problem with black people..." and then say something prejudice/close minded.

To be honest, and I'm not looking for a cat fight here, from what I know about you from this message board you seem like one of the last people I would expect to hold old fashioned traditions so dear. Especially religious based traditions. It seems a bit odd to me.

There's no cat-fighting going on. But see, that in bold is narrow-minded to me. I support the arts, I'm a modern millie, but that doesn't mean I don't have traditional views or a belief in God.

And being black has nothing to do with 'the union between man and woman in the church.' I don't have a problem with homosexuality but that doesn't mean I want them to alter the sacrament.

I don't consider it 'voting against them' either. I am willing to vote in favor of their rights but I'm just not willing to go as far as compromising my religious belief. HEY, I believe in God, kiss girls and support tolerance. Whatdoyaknow, it's very possible.

#57 i-c

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:35 PM

Seriously, though. Gay people are awesome and hilarious. Dudes know how to throw a fuckin' parade. They can get married as long as I don't have to.

They give great speeches too. My best friend and best man at my totally non-religious wedding is gay and I can't wait to return the favor to him.

#58 i-c

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:37 PM

I don't consider it 'voting against them' either. I am willing to vote in favor of their rights but I'm just not willing to go as far as compromising my religious belief.

I don't understand how gay people marrying compromises your religious beliefs? Can you explain this further?

#59 6ome 9irl

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:42 PM

I don't understand how gay people marrying compromises your religious beliefs? Can you explain this further?

Sure, simply 'union between man and woman.' And I believe a function of marriage is to create a life.

I'm actually fine with them calling it what they want, like Dice said. I'm just explaining why I couldn't vote for it.

#60 red

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 08:47 PM

There's no cat-fighting going on. But see, that in bold is narrow-minded to me. I support the arts, I'm a modern millie, but that doesn't mean I don't have traditional views or a belief in God.

And being black has nothing to do with 'the union between man and woman in the church.'

I don't consider it 'voting against them' either. I am willing to vote in favor of their rights but I'm just not willing to go as far as compromising my religious belief. HEY, I believe in God, kiss girls and support tolerance. Whatdoyaknow, it's very possible.

What about the religious belief of no sex before marriage? And I bet you wouldn't want your priest to read your posts talking about , blow jobs, clits, and swallowing.

I guess what bothers me is that being anti-gay marriage just seems like such an outdated religious belief. So much of religion is left up to interpretation that it leads me to believe that as the world becomes more progressive, religion can too. Actually, the people in the bible were far more tolerant of homosexuals than people are today.

The church I went to growing up used to not let women on the board of directors (or whatever they were calling it). When the issue was raised there was a big division and a bunch of church members who were anti-equal rights for women left to start their own church. This is a big part of what turned me against organized religion. It's so full of old-fashioned prejudices and hypocrisy.

And I believe a function of marriage is to create a life.

I know we'll never see eye to eye on this, but I'm curious what you think about people who don't want or can't have kids. They shouldn't get married either?

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