817 replies to this topic

[Tony]

Those are terrible descriptions of both films. What significant character development takes place in Aliens? The movie doesn't try (or really need) to develop the characters beyond butch marine, scared marine, bad-leader-who-redeems-himself, simpering corporate stooge, etc.

That's better than the complete lack of character development in Alien.

The characters in Aliens were stereotypes. The characters in Alien felt like real people.

Most of the characters in Alien hardly had any dialogue. Besides their personalities, as it were, have virtually no bearing on the narrative. Not to mention that the filmmaking in Aliens is just better. It has more than just set decoration. It has dynamic action sequences which are some of the best ever filmed.

[Rajexico]

Most of the characters in Alien hardly had any dialogue. Besides their personalities, as it were, have virtually no bearing on the narrative. Not to mention that the filmmaking in Aliens is just better. It has more than just set decoration. It has dynamic action sequences which are some of the best ever filmed.

That's why Alien is better in that respect - it does away with those unnecessary elements, rather than going the route Aliens does and feeling obligated to give us a really half-hearted and pointless romantic relationship, a "bad guy" redeeming himself, etc. (basically all the weakest aspects of Aliens).

Wow, he's teaching her how to use a grenade launcher! I really feel like these characters have been "developed," right before my eyes! Thanks so much mssrs Cameron and Kehr!

[i]for the most part, things simply jump out and go "boo!"

This is probably the worst part of this review - the first alien birth sequence in Alien is the pinnacle of creepy effectiveness in the series. Mr. Kehr implicitly lumps it in with "things simply jump out and go 'boo!'"

[Tony]

Most of the characters in Alien hardly had any dialogue. Besides their personalities, as it were, have virtually no bearing on the narrative. Not to mention that the filmmaking in Aliens is just better. It has more than just set decoration. It has dynamic action sequences which are some of the best ever filmed.

That's why Alien is better in that respect - it does away with those unnecessary elements, rather than going the route Aliens does and feeling obligated to give us a really half-hearted and pointless romantic relationship, a "bad guy" redeeming himself, etc. (basically all the weakest aspects of Aliens).

Wow, he's teaching her how to use a grenade launcher! I really feel like these characters have been "developed," right before my eyes! Thanks so much mssrs Cameron and Kehr!

[i]for the most part, things simply jump out and go "boo!"

This is probably the worst part of this review - the first alien birth sequence in Alien is the pinnacle of creepy effectiveness in the series. Mr. Kehr implicitly lumps it in with "things simply jump out and go 'boo!'"

The alien birth sequence isn't fightening it's gross. It's no more disturbing then the all the goo in The Exorcist. Another film that's not as interesting as its sequel(s). I've always found Alien tedious and devoid of content.

[Rajexico]

The alien birth sequence isn't fightening it's gross. It's no more disturbing then the all the goo in The Exorcist. Another film that's not as interesting as its sequel(s). I've always found Alien tedious and devoid of content.

If you think it's not frightening or disturbing I wonder how you enjoy any film in the series as its kind of the central premise for the entire franchise. The brief calm before the storm - the false normalcy - is really what makes it such a classic sequence.

Kehr put it very well when he said "the central image--the alien spores as a monstrous parody of human birth--finds an effective resonance in the plotline," but he must have gotten the films mixed up ( ) because it is clearly much more important to the first film's identity than it is to the second's.

[Tony]

The alien birth sequence isn't fightening it's gross. It's no more disturbing then the all the goo in The Exorcist. Another film that's not as interesting as its sequel(s). I've always found Alien tedious and devoid of content.

If you think it's not frightening or disturbing I wonder how you enjoy any film in the series as its kind of the central premise for the entire franchise. The brief calm before the storm - the false normalcy - is really what makes it such a classic sequence.

Kehr put it very well when he said "the central image--the alien spores as a monstrous parody of human birth--finds an effective resonance in the plotline," but he must have gotten the films mixed up ( ) because it is clearly much more important to the first film's identity than it is to the second's.

Kehr was reffering to the surrogate family in Aliens and the competing 'mothers' (Ripley and the Queen Bee of the Aliens). In Aliens that's a metaphor that runs through it from start to finish. In Alien it's used for one gross shock sequence.

[Rajexico]

Kehr was reffering to the surrogate family in Aliens and the competing 'mothers' (Ripley and the Queen Bee of the Aliens). In Aliens that's a metaphor that runs through it from start to finish. In Alien it's used for one gross shock sequence.

Then he didn't express himself very well. It sounds like you're saying he meant to say "as a monstrous parody of the human nuclear family" as opposed to the act of birth itself.

While I agree that the mom v. mom structure works well for Aliens, I don't think its quite as interesting as the core idea of the Alien franchise, that the aliens birth cannot happen without death (and that the birth act is a cruel mockery of normal birth). That idea is much more prominent in the first film than in the second film.

[Tony]

Kehr was reffering to the surrogate family in Aliens and the competing 'mothers' (Ripley and the Queen Bee of the Aliens). In Aliens that's a metaphor that runs through it from start to finish. In Alien it's used for one gross shock sequence.

Then he didn't express himself very well. It sounds like you're saying he meant to say "as a monstrous parody of the human nuclear family" as opposed to the act of birth itself.

While I agree that the mom v. mom structure works well for Aliens, I don't think its quite as interesting as the core idea of the Alien franchise, that the aliens birth cannot happen without death (and that the birth act is a cruel mockery of normal birth). That idea is much more prominent in the first film than in the second film.

It happens in the first film but it's not used to any great expressive effect. As I said earlier, its used as a shock effect.

[Rajexico]

It happens in the first film but it's not used to any great expressive effect. As I said earlier, its used as a shock effect.

I guess I could accuse you (and him) of just missing the expressiveness, but it's probably more constructive to just agree to disagree. However, I am hard-pressed to think of anything similar in the second film that's used for greater effect in a non-gratuitous way.

Or for that matter anything else from the series that is as iconic, instantly recognizable, parodied in Space Balls, etc etc etc

[Tony]

It happens in the first film but it's not used to any great expressive effect. As I said earlier, its used as a shock effect.

I guess I could accuse you (and him) of just missing the expressiveness, but it's probably more constructive to just agree to disagree. However, I am hard-pressed to think of anything similar in the second film that's used for greater effect in a non-gratuitous way.

Or for that matter anything else from the series that is as iconic, instantly recognizable, parodied in Space Balls, etc etc etc

Is it effective (shocking)? Yes. Is it iconic for being so? Yes. But the training montages in Rocky films are also iconic. That doesn't mean they're expressive.

[held]

In my opinion, this is actually one of the best films ever made. Such a beautiful film, I really become transported to the times when I watch this one. Burt Lancaster is fabulous in it, to boot. Does anyone else here like this one?

this is one of those flicks that never made it to VHS and was long sought after until it came to DVD in 2000 (?) Still haven't seen it and have a great desire to catch up to it. I've always been interested in the 'haven't seen but feel I should' lists per those cinephiles around here..

In our top 100 film of the 90's comp's a while back I was embarassed with my lack of any Wong Kar Wai, Hou Hsiao Hsien or Miike on my list much less Moodysson. I still haven't seen anything by Kiarostami, Tarr much less Fassbinder.. it's like being a fan of electronic music and having never heard anything by Kraftwerk.

[held]

Most of the characters in Alien hardly had any dialogue. Besides their personalities, as it were, have virtually no bearing on the narrative. Not to mention that the filmmaking in Aliens is just better. It has more than just set decoration. It has dynamic action sequences which are some of the best ever filmed.

That's why Alien is better in that respect - it does away with those unnecessary elements, rather than going the route Aliens does and feeling obligated to give us a really half-hearted and pointless romantic relationship, a "bad guy" redeeming himself, etc. (basically all the weakest aspects of Aliens).

Wow, he's teaching her how to use a grenade launcher! I really feel like these characters have been "developed," right before my eyes! Thanks so much mssrs Cameron and Kehr!

[i]for the most part, things simply jump out and go "boo!"

This is probably the worst part of this review - the first alien birth sequence in Alien is the pinnacle of creepy effectiveness in the series. Mr. Kehr implicitly lumps it in with "things simply jump out and go 'boo!'"

The alien birth sequence isn't fightening it's gross. It's no more disturbing then the all the goo in The Exorcist. Another film that's not as interesting as its sequel(s). I've always found Alien tedious and devoid of content.

my 2 cents.

'Alien' is a horror film that's plotline is ripped from a mystery thriller. (and Then There Were None aka it's original published title 'ten little niggers') Only the twist is we know what's coming after them and where. It's just a matter of when and how. Additionally one could read the subtext as the fear of the female. hence, the biological goo of birth which while shocking (still I think) has much to describe the common reaction that ppl have with human anatomy.

'Aliens' is an action film. The 'thrills' are deminished because our heroine knows (as does the audience) what they're in for. So instead, its a fight to the finish with the mighty marines (and one whiner) and a corporate stooge. The subtext speaks to role of motherhood and the protection of children along with perhaps corporate greed. A good amount of the plotting was lost (as is the case in several of Cameron's works) which was put back in with the director's cut.

As science fiction goes. I don't know that one necessarilly tops the other so much as each had its own vision for which they worked in very different ways. Oddly enough I think each director did a better flick in the same genre and find them to be happy accidents where they worked well rather than achieved something that's significantly grand or consistent in their filmmaking methods.

[Slackmo]

I loved them both, but Alien loses out in the sci-fi category, because every person in the theater knew in act one that they were going to have to blow the alien out the airlock, and waited sixty more minutes for the characters to realize it.

[Tony]

Most of the characters in Alien hardly had any dialogue. Besides their personalities, as it were, have virtually no bearing on the narrative. Not to mention that the filmmaking in Aliens is just better. It has more than just set decoration. It has dynamic action sequences which are some of the best ever filmed.

That's why Alien is better in that respect - it does away with those unnecessary elements, rather than going the route Aliens does and feeling obligated to give us a really half-hearted and pointless romantic relationship, a "bad guy" redeeming himself, etc. (basically all the weakest aspects of Aliens).

Wow, he's teaching her how to use a grenade launcher! I really feel like these characters have been "developed," right before my eyes! Thanks so much mssrs Cameron and Kehr!

[i]for the most part, things simply jump out and go "boo!"

This is probably the worst part of this review - the first alien birth sequence in Alien is the pinnacle of creepy effectiveness in the series. Mr. Kehr implicitly lumps it in with "things simply jump out and go 'boo!'"

The alien birth sequence isn't fightening it's gross. It's no more disturbing then the all the goo in The Exorcist. Another film that's not as interesting as its sequel(s). I've always found Alien tedious and devoid of content.

A good amount of the plotting was lost (as is the case in several of Cameron's works) which was put back in with the director's cut.

The Director's cut is the one I mean.

[Rajexico]

I don't think I've seen the director's cut - I'll add it to the immense pile of films I'm supposed to watch and see if it changes my reaction to the two films at all. Is "Aliens: Collector's Edition" the one I want then?

[held]

I don't think I've seen the director's cut - I'll add it to the immense pile of films I'm supposed to watch and see if it changes my reaction to the two films at all.

I ask myself the same question for 'Brazil' (5 versions now, know?) Only my concern is that none of them will really say anything that different and I fear will likely lessen my love for it so I've been holding off.

[suckeredyou]

I don't think I've seen the director's cut - I'll add it to the immense pile of films I'm supposed to watch and see if it changes my reaction to the two films at all.

I ask myself the same question for 'Brazil' (5 versions now, know?) Only my concern is that none of them will really say anything that different and I fear will likely lessen my love for it so I've been holding off.

I don't think there are any reasons to watch the other Brazil versions. The "Love Conquers All" version on the criterion disk has a pretty interesting commentary though where all the changes and differences are discussed.

[Magnus Malcolm]

I don't think I've seen the director's cut - I'll add it to the immense pile of films I'm supposed to watch and see if it changes my reaction to the two films at all.

I ask myself the same question for 'Brazil' (5 versions now, know?) Only my concern is that none of them will really say anything that different and I fear will likely lessen my love for it so I've been holding off.

And the versions of Blade Runner. Of course, that's a bit different, but still.

Changing the subject entirely, I'm amazed at the crap I'm willing to like as an Adam Baldwin fan.

Suffering through ones like this...



Makes one like this seem good.



I still don't understand how the poor guy went from My Bodygaurd, Rob Redford, and "Stanley Fucking Kubrick" to where he is today. Thank God for Firefly and Serenity, but still.

[Campaigner]

I still don't understand how the poor guy went from My Bodygaurd, Rob Redford, and "Stanley Fucking Kubrick" to where he is today. Thank God for Firefly and Serenity, but still.

I dug him heaps in Firefly, but he'll always be the guy I wanna punch in the face repeatedly for telling the President in Independence Day that he couldn't enter the Area 51 bunker because it was a "secure area", and then backed down like a whimpering boy when he got told again, more sternly this time, to "open it". Of all the things from that movie that make me want to punch someone, that's just about #1. Fuckin' douche.

But Jayne Cobb was a hell of a character and Vera was a hell of a gun.

[Magnus Malcolm]

[held]

chicago born character actor. went to new trier (hence the 'My Bodyguard' option I think)
no relation to those other baldwin brothers. married with 3 kids.. good friends with Jamie Lee Curtis.


It was never the fame or fortune that drove me to act. It was something I love and enjoy doing it. A lot of people identify who they are by what they do and that's not me. It's what I do but not who I am. Who I am is a parent. I'm a family man.


My Bodyguard (1980)
Ordinary People (1980)
D.C. Cab (1983)
Reckless (1984)
Full Metal Jacket (1987)
The Chocolate War (1988)
Cohen and Tate (1989)
Next of Kin (1989)
Predator 2 (1990)
Radio Flyer (1992)
Deadbolt (1992)
Where the Day Takes You (1992)
Wyatt Earp (1994)
Trade Off (1995)
Independence Day (1996)
Smoke Jumpers (1996)
Gargantua (1998)
From the Earth to the Moon: Episode 9: Miles and Miles (1998)
The Patriot (2000)
Double Bang (2001)
Jackpot (2001)
Control Factor (2002)
Evil Eyes (2004)
The Poseidon Adventure (2005)
Serenity (2005)
Sands of Oblivion (2007)
Drillbit Taylor (2008)

Television/voice acting
The Outer Limits (1998) (Major James Bowen)
Bones
The Inside
Firefly (2002-2003) (Jayne Cobb)
Jackie Chan Adventures (Finn)
Angel (Marcus Hamilton)
The X-Files (Knowle Rohrer/Supersoldier)
Men in Black: The Series
Justice League Unlimited
Day Break (2006-2007)
Stargate SG-1 (Col. Dave Dixon)
NCIS
VR5
Chuck (NSA Agent John Casey)
Superman: Doomsday
Halo 3
Half-Life 2: Episode Two
The Cape (Col. Jack Riles)
JAG (Tv series) "Good Intentions" - Michael Rainer (2004)
CSI: NY "Hostage" - Brett Dunbar (2008)