555 replies to this topic

[Slackmo]

[James D]

In both sports the points are awarded by refs/judges. Not as bad as gymnastics or skating, I'll give you that, but also not as impartial as a ball entering a goal or a timed event.

A knockout (in boxing) or a pin (in wrestling) are every bit as conclusive as a ball entering a goal. The scoring systems are only used if one of those events fails to occur because time constraints as well as the safety of the athletes prohibit matches that extend until there is pin/knockout.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what you're arguing. Do you want boxing matches to turn into mixed martial arts?

I think he just prefers sports with clear winners and losers....no gray area. Boxing matchs that go the distance rely upon judges who may or may not make mistakes/be impartial to make the call.

I understood that, I just didn't think it was fair to lump boxing and wresting in with figure skating, which can be very subjective. And another point, there is typically a degree of subjectivity in virtually all team sports. Yes a basketball/baseball/soccer team may score more points/goals, but refereeing often plays into the victory. Likewise, Boxing/wrestling have very precise rules as to scoring (it's not subjective), but human error may play into the a victory or create an impression of subjectivity.

i'm no expert in any of these sports, but I suspect that figure skating, gymnastics, diving, etc. also have very precise rules as to scoring (it's not subjective), just like boxing & wrestling, but to the untrained eye, it seems like voodoo. Just like boxing and to a lesser extent wrestling.

I think wrestling is distinct because points are awarded right then and there by the ref - sure sometimes there's a judgement call, but in boxing, and the other sports, you do your performance and after it's over a group of judges then turns in a final score, which makes the whole thing seem a bit choreographed or at least makes it more of an art than a science (at least to the crowd). Why don't they have a scoreboard during a boxing match - showing who won each round? Why do the boxers not know if they can "run out the clock" or if they are actually in danger of losing on points? That's what makes it fishy.

I wish someone who knew more about boxing than me would come and argue this point better than I can because I'm pretty sure that there isn't that much subjectiveness when judging. To a trained eye, hits are plain to see and there isn't usually that much contraversy in judges decisions.

[Agrimorfee]

I do not even pretend to understand this new gymnastics scoring.
is there any score that is now = to the old '10'?

Nope.

It has something to do with every athlete starting with a perfect score for the difficulty they are shooting for, plus the maximum score for the execution minus any technical errors the judges see along the way.

[Kate]

Watching the coverage this afternoon on MSNBC, which is completely spoiled by the presence of Tamron Hall. I was so happy when she left Chicago. She's horrible. They've shown the replay of the mens relay from last night. It doesn't get any less amazing, even after 10 viewings. That was crazy.

[petras]

In both sports the points are awarded by refs/judges. Not as bad as gymnastics or skating, I'll give you that, but also not as impartial as a ball entering a goal or a timed event.

A knockout (in boxing) or a pin (in wrestling) are every bit as conclusive as a ball entering a goal. The scoring systems are only used if one of those events fails to occur because time constraints as well as the safety of the athletes prohibit matches that extend until there is pin/knockout.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what you're arguing. Do you want boxing matches to turn into mixed martial arts?

I think he just prefers sports with clear winners and losers....no gray area. Boxing matchs that go the distance rely upon judges who may or may not make mistakes/be impartial to make the call.

I understood that, I just didn't think it was fair to lump boxing and wresting in with figure skating, which can be very subjective. And another point, there is typically a degree of subjectivity in virtually all team sports. Yes a basketball/baseball/soccer team may score more points/goals, but refereeing often plays into the victory. Likewise, Boxing/wrestling have very precise rules as to scoring (it's not subjective), but human error may play into the a victory or create an impression of subjectivity.

i'm no expert in any of these sports, but I suspect that figure skating, gymnastics, diving, etc. also have very precise rules as to scoring (it's not subjective), just like boxing & wrestling, but to the untrained eye, it seems like voodoo. Just like boxing and to a lesser extent wrestling.

I think wrestling is distinct because points are awarded right then and there by the ref - sure sometimes there's a judgement call, but in boxing, and the other sports, you do your performance and after it's over a group of judges then turns in a final score, which makes the whole thing seem a bit choreographed or at least makes it more of an art than a science (at least to the crowd). Why don't they have a scoreboard during a boxing match - showing who won each round? Why do the boxers not know if they can "run out the clock" or if they are actually in danger of losing on points? That's what makes it fishy.

I wish someone who knew more about boxing than me would come and argue this point better than I can because I'm pretty sure that there isn't that much subjectiveness when judging. To a trained eye, hits are plain to see and there isn't usually that much contraversy in judges decisions.

Just watched a couple of the olympic boxing matches and the commentators did a lot of complaining about the judges not awarding points for clear hits. They even used the instant replay to illustrate their point. So I guess the hits aren't all that plain to see. It's not subjective like figure skating or gymnastics but clearly there's still a lot of room for judge errors to influence the outcome.

[Melted Cheese]

Pretty sure boxing judging is notoriously fishy at all levels... Anyone else pumped for some men's gymnastics finals? That's my new shit, right there. Never watched before but got into the other night. These dudes are freaks.

[helmet52]

3 great swimming events tonight that shouldn't be missed: 9:16pm men's 200 free....phelps should win convincingly 9:23pm women's 100 back....usa's natalie coughlin saw her world record broken in the prelims by Kristy Coventry. Should be a great showdown. 9:31pm men's 100 back....usa's aaron piersol holds the world record, but Lake Forest's very own Matt Grevers missed breaking the WR by .1 second in prelims. Great shot at an American 1-2 finish.

[petras]

I'm finding the swiming way more compelling then I have in years past. I don't know if that's because i'm older and my tastes have changed or if the athletes are just more interesting this year. Either way tonight should be another great night of swiming. And gymnastics is always good.

[RadioHitchcock]

3 great swimming events tonight that shouldn't be missed:

9:16pm men's 200 free....phelps should win convincingly

9:23pm women's 100 back....usa's natalie coughlin saw her world record broken in the prelims by Kristy Coventry. Should be a great showdown.

9:31pm men's 100 back....usa's aaron piersol holds the world record, but Lake Forest's very own Matt Grevers missed breaking the WR by .1 second in prelims. Great shot at an American 1-2 finish.

That Matt Grevers guy is something. I'm rooting for him over Piersol in the 1-2 finish.

[Campaigner]

3 great swimming events tonight that shouldn't be missed:

9:16pm men's 200 free....phelps should win convincingly

9:23pm women's 100 back....usa's natalie coughlin saw her world record broken in the prelims by Kristy Coventry. Should be a great showdown.

9:31pm men's 100 back....usa's aaron piersol holds the world record, but Lake Forest's very own Matt Grevers missed breaking the WR by .1 second in prelims. Great shot at an American 1-2 finish.

Don't forget that an Aussie broke the Olympic record to qualify fastest for the final (Hayden Stoeckel). Honestly - hardly anyone here has heard of the guy and he stands a real medal shot.

Also - Women's 100m Breaststroke. Aussie Liesel Jones (who won silver in this event as a 15 year old in Sydney) has the 9 fastest times in history and qualified more than a second faster than any other swimmer for the final. Should win her first individual Gold quite comfortably. Scary thing is that she's better (and way more ahead of the competition) in the 200m. Look for the WR to be shaking in its boots for this event.

Also - Semis of the Women's 200m IM - 400 IM winner Stephanie Rice vs Kirsty Coventry and Katie Hoff (in order of threat).

Semis of Women's 200m Freestyle - Pelligrini of Italy broke the WR in the heats last night and could improve on it. She's a strange one - looked as though she would romp it in before she swam the 400m Free final yesterday but did nothing, yet comes out out breaks the 200m WR. This 'heats at night, finals in the morning' schedule really is fucking with some swimmers.

[TJENZ]

synchronized diving this is a real sport, but baseball might not be back in the Olympics after this year. wtf?

[Campaigner]

synchronized diving

this is a real sport, but baseball might not be back in the Olympics after this year.

wtf?

Almost guaranteed gold for host nation = stays in the Olympics

[RadioHitchcock]

baseball not coming back pisses me off. so Chicago better win the Olympics to keep it in.

[TJENZ]

I'd love to see MLB do what the NHL does for the Olympics. Every 4 years suspend play and the the best players play for their home countries.

[Campaigner]

I'd love to see MLB do what the NHL does for the Olympics. Every 4 years suspend play and the the best players play for their home countries.

Unfortunately, MLB sees themselves as a higher power, and to do so would admit that there was something else worth watching more.

[RadioHitchcock]

Women's Beach Volleyball Now here's a hot event.

[petras]

I'd love to see MLB do what the NHL does for the Olympics. Every 4 years suspend play and the the best players play for their home countries.

Does the MLB have the big international player pool that the NHL does? I'm not so sure. Even still they do play a crapload of games every year missing 2 weeks worth wouldn't really make that much of a difference in the long run I don't think.