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#1 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:24 PM

I'll argue with stuff here.
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#2 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:26 PM

I don't care what you call that squirming thing in the mother's womb. It's inside a living, breathing self-sustaining citizen's womb; a citizen with the right to determine what happens to her body and its contents.

But the abortion issue is a "dying" issue anyway; the frontline of the antiabortion message is shifting to birth control/morning-after medication, which is where the lion's share of terminated pregnancies will come from over the next decades.

This assault is proof-positive that the anti-abortion message is not "pro-'baby,'" but "anti-women's rights."


Don't generalize. I am not opposed to birth control or RU-486. As I said previously, I am opposed to abortion after implantation. Both the pill and RU-486 prevent implantation. I don't believe it is a life at conception. I don't know exactly when it is, but I believe it's fairly early on, as development happens a lot quicker than people think. That's why I just go with implantation as a cut-off point.

It's inside a living, breathing self-sustaining citizen's womb

newborns (hell, small children even) are not-self sustaining

well, they can breath.

birth control just pauses ovulation so that the egg cannot be fertilized. it isnt a baby killing pill in any sense.


Some pro-life folks argue against it because it does sometimes prevent implantation in the occurrence that an egg is still fertilized.
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#3 dice

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:31 PM

what makes an implanted fertilized egg so special? serious question
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#4 Pavement Ist Rad

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:31 PM

What if the parents simply take longer than usual to come to their senses? One of the greatest of all God-given privileges is our ability to correctly realize, "Babies? WTFLOL @ me!!!!"
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#5 fffffffff

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:33 PM

It's inside a living, breathing self-sustaining citizen's womb

newborns (hell, small children even) are not-self sustaining

well, they can breath.

a baby removed from a 3 mo pregnant woman can as well. why not have it removed rather than killing it?

what.
1. a fetus doesn't breath on its own, a child does, which was my point. in that sense, it is self sufficient. it can breath. oxygen! whee! life!
2. a fetus removed from a womb at the third month isnt close to being developed enough to breath on its own or survive. thats the msot ridiculosu thing ive ever heard.

#6 Waylon

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:35 PM

1. oxygen! whee! life!
2. thats the msot ridiculosu thing ive ever heard.


Pay attention people. This is how you win debates.

Still waiting for Slackmo to delete this thread.


#7 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:35 PM

what makes an implanted fertilized egg so special?

serious question


Nothing. It's just an easy cut-off point. If someone can determine something later that is a clear cut-off point where it is not a living human being, then that sounds good to me.

Yeah--but this is one situation where the ethical decision (perhaps not the moral one) *demands* a hierarchy; you can't require the protection of the fetus without infringing upon the mother's HUMAN (pedantic shit) rights to self-determination. It's impossible. Therefore you're forced to make a decision: mother's autonomy/freedom or the rights of a fetus to continue to exist.


I agree with this. I would probably imply some different shit with my own biased semantics as opposed to yours, but yeah. Basically, if you think the right to self-determination is more important, there's no way possible I can convince you and we basically have nothing to argue about.
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#8 Mantana

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:35 PM

Keep me out of this thread. All the screaming kids in the restaurant today with parents who don't seem to care haven't got me in a pro-life mood.

#9 fffffffff

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:36 PM

1. oxygen! whee! life!
2. thats the msot ridiculosu thing ive ever heard.


Pay attention people. This is how you win debates.

by editing what people say/ type so it makes them sounde ven more retarded? yea i guess so. IF YOU ARE JOHN MCCAIN.
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#10 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:37 PM

It's inside a living, breathing self-sustaining citizen's womb

newborns (hell, small children even) are not-self sustaining

well, they can breath.

a baby removed from a 3 mo pregnant woman can as well. why not have it removed rather than killing it?

what.
1. a fetus doesn't breath on its own, a child does, which was my point. in that sense, it is self sufficient. it can breath. oxygen! whee! life!
2. a fetus removed from a womb at the third month isnt close to being developed enough to breath on its own or survive. thats the msot ridiculosu thing ive ever heard.


Note: anyone needing a machine to help you breath, you are dead.
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#11 fffffffff

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:40 PM

well now you are just playing with semantics. clearly two different situations involving life.

#12 sKinnY

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:41 PM

only if sausage is the dad.

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#13 Moo & Oink

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:41 PM

The bitch we hear having a baby is a good excuse for abortion

#14 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:42 PM

well now you are just playing with semantics. clearly two different situations involving life.


But you just defined life as being able to breathe on your own. Could you qualify that for me?

Also, just wondering, are you opposed to late-term abortion?
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#15 nagode

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:42 PM

It's inside a living, breathing self-sustaining citizen's womb

newborns (hell, small children even) are not-self sustaining

well, they can breath.

a baby removed from a 3 mo pregnant woman can as well. why not have it removed rather than killing it?

what.
1. a fetus doesn't breath on its own, a child does, which was my point. in that sense, it is self sufficient. it can breath. oxygen! whee! life!
2. a fetus removed from a womb at the third month isnt close to being developed enough to breath on its own or survive. thats the msot ridiculosu thing ive ever heard.


my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...

ive always found it funny when people that are pro life are also pro capital punishment (or pro choice but against capital punishment)...for me its having a consistent life ethic...no should have the right to tell anyone when their life ends except our maker (or when we die naturally whatever way you want to view it)...
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#16 theminimumcircus

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:44 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


Yep. Till it's no longer attached to the mother's body.
Wtf @ theminimuncircus retardly interjecting.

#17 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:47 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


Yep. Till it's no longer attached to the mother's body.


Can you abort if it's on the cord?
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#18 fffffffff

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:47 PM

well now you are just playing with semantics. clearly two different situations involving life.


But you just defined life as being able to breathe on your own. Could you qualify that for me?

Also, just wondering, are you opposed to late-term abortion?

is there not a difference between being initially born, out of a womb and into the world, and living and having said capacity taken away? i agree there's a bit of a gray area in there but utilizing a machine vs. human... two very different cases there.

but whatever, we can all come up with a bunch of different circumstances where one seems to be hypocritical of teh other, so i think maybe leaving it at that.

and i am not anti-third trimester abortion. but thats just me.

#19 scarymuppet

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:53 PM

well now you are just playing with semantics. clearly two different situations involving life.


But you just defined life as being able to breathe on your own. Could you qualify that for me?

Also, just wondering, are you opposed to late-term abortion?

is there not a difference between being initially born, out of a womb and into the world, and living and having said capacity taken away? i agree there's a bit of a gray area in there but utilizing a machine vs. human... two very different cases there.

but whatever, we can all come up with a bunch of different circumstances where one seems to be hypocritical of teh other, so i think maybe leaving it at that.

and i am not anti-third trimester abortion. but thats just me.


But third-trimesters have developed the ability to breathe.
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#20 fffffffff

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:59 PM

for me, whether it has to do with being a woman or being liberal or just, you know, being correct and brilliant, as long as that fucker is attached to me, sharing my nutrients and the what not, i have control over what i want to do with it and dont believe anyone should be able to tell me different.