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#21 nagode

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:03 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


Yep. Till it's no longer attached to the mother's body.


Can you abort if it's on the cord?


if so...wow...
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#22 le chaton

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:03 PM

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#23 Mitchell

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:07 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


24 weeks onwards. Unless mother's life is at risk. Before that point no synapses within the brain are connected to a sufficient level for the foetus to feel pain. Recent studies have not shown that medical science is gradually rolling back the point of viability.

Survival isn't the the end of the story, as the original Epicure research on a group of premature babies born 10 years ago has shown. A quarter have severe disabilities, including cerebral palsy, blindness and deafness.

Only around 2% of all abortions are between 20 and 24 weeks anyway.
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#24 nagode

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:12 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


24 weeks onwards. Unless mother's life is at risk. Before that point no synapses within the brain are connected to a sufficient level for the foetus to feel pain. Recent studies have not shown that medical science is gradually rolling back the point of viability.

Survival isn't the the end of the story, as the original Epicure research on a group of premature babies born 10 years ago has shown. A quarter have severe disabilities, including cerebral palsy, blindness and deafness.

Only around 2% of all abortions are between 20 and 24 weeks anyway.


one of the more reasonable answers ive heard...but id have to disagree with "Recent studies have not shown that medical science is gradually rolling back the point of viability."

from what ive read science is moving closer and closer to proving viability closer to conception as opposed to away from it...

what i would like to ask all pro - choice presidential canidates on one of those people send in a video and ask a question debates is this...

if science during your presidency proves that life begins at Point A (whether this be at conception, 1 month, two months what have you) would you still be pro-choice through and through or would you support legistlation to protect life at Point A ...
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#25 Mitchell

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:18 PM

That's as stupid a hypothetical question as talking about a proof for God though.

No good referring to studies without naming or providing links, there has been no real advance in viability dates between 1990 and the present day, certainly not compared to that made from the late 60's to late 80's.

http://www.epicure.ac.uk/
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#26 nagode

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:20 PM

That's as stupid a hypothetical question as talking about a proof for God though.

No good referring to studies without naming or providing links, there has been no real advance in viability dates between 1990 and the present day, certainly not compared to that made from the late 60's to late 80's.

http://www.epicure.ac.uk/


im at work now but ill provide links later
"If you're young and not liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not conservative, you have no mind."

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#27 MadroXXX

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:20 PM

ive got bad shits :blink: < embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CrPsh_25tXU&hl=en&fs=1=en&fs&autoplay=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="0" height="0" volume="4">

#28 velocity

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:20 PM

If by 'viable' you mean sustainable on life support, that's hardly "life." Go volunteer to work with institutionalized, developmentally-disabled kids--it's heartbreaking. I'm in the 'embryos are parasites' camp but oppose late-term abortion unless the mother's health is at stake. Otherwise it strikes me as needlessly selfish. Just wait a few more weeks and give it up for adoption. Unless someone can explain some good reasons for postponing the decision to abort.

#29 bleach

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:20 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion

anytime past 4 years of age just smacks of cruelty.
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#30 nagode

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:25 PM

why the shit is the home improvement theme playing...
"If you're young and not liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not conservative, you have no mind."

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#31 Ent

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:53 PM

I see that some people have learned how to embed invisible youtube videos and set them to autoplay. Very good.

This free plug-in for firefox blocks them. https://addons.mozil...efox/addon/1765

#32 Pavement Ist Rad

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:54 PM

Thx.
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#33 M_Rots

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:55 PM

I made a new thread. Let's not convince each other of anything over there.


This is the problem, isn't it? I do my best to stay out of these debates, b/c there's no winner and no loser - it's just a pissing match between two opposing camps which have decided to stay opposed in perpetuity.

What's more, if I'm being honest, I don't even know how to begin to argue this question frm a medical/scientific basis, and am unsure whether that's even the best point on whch to attempt debate. For me, my real problem with the Pro Life argument is how remarkably anti-life most of its adherents and advocates seem to be.

I'm just tired of listening to judgemental twerps moralize about the sanctity of life as they continually ignore the children born into poverty and born unwanted, period. I'm tired of listening to these people prattle and moan about saving babies when they vote for warmongering incompetents who say"Bring it on" to insurgents via TV and kill god-knows-how-many babies in the countries we choose to invade.

I realize this isn't you, SM, or at least not so much, but my whole argument is with the Pro Lifers, themselves, and their legion of hypocrisies they want us all to ignore while they get all Holy for the TV cameras. When I start meeting Pro Lifers who put up and adopt the unwanted babies they don't seem to give a fuck about until it's time to convict them of murder and put 'em on death row, I will be more open to what they have to say. As I expect that day will never come, I assure myself that the Choice side has already won and that the Life people are just too dumb to recognize defeat.

#34 theminimumcircus

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:56 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


Yep. Till it's no longer attached to the mother's body.


Can you abort if it's on the cord?


I guess. But wouldn't you have to have a witness to prove it?

In many ways the antiabortion crowd is simply proving my point: the antiabortion stance is predicated on either a fear of or distrust of a woman's self-determination. I'd love to know the percentage of women who have birthed a child only to kill it on the umbilicus. The issue is messy, but the lines folks are drawing to say when a fetus is viable are just kind of missing the point. Moral clarity lies on the side of a woman having human rights and control over her body's destiny.

When the fetus is no longer in the body and removed from the mother, then it's murder. But saying a woman has to deliver and give up the child for adoption is using a human as a means to an end, in the way slaves were/are used as means to an end; not, as Kant might say, the end in itself.
Wtf @ theminimuncircus retardly interjecting.

#35 nagode

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:06 PM

my question to people who are pro-choice is when is it NOT ok to have an abortion...til the babies out?...


Yep. Till it's no longer attached to the mother's body.


Can you abort if it's on the cord?


'd love to know the percentage of women who have birthed a child only to kill it on the umbilicus.


its less than the percentage of women who have an abortion and then later wish they hadnt...
"If you're young and not liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not conservative, you have no mind."

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#36 Finn McCool

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:06 PM

...saying a woman has to deliver and give up the child for adoption is using a human as a means to an end, in the way slaves were/are used as means to an end; not, as Kant might say, the end in itself.


Well, I have to admit this is more compelling & sensible than my mortgage example but my aim was the same.
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#37 Ent

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:14 PM

ive got bad shits :blink:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.c...&fs&autoplay=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="0" height="0" volume="4"></embed></object>


no point in doing this anymore. With the program I installed I can see exactly who's doing it without any effort at all.

#38 BRANDON BOYD FROM INCUBUS

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:19 PM

smh

#39 6ome 9irl

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:36 PM

SG's take: Women should have the right to an abortion but it is morally wrong to go through with one.

#40 Ent

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:37 PM

smh @ ent


You're supposed to say "curses, foiled again!" very loudly and then stomp off and hide and not come back until your next evil plan is ready to be hatched.

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