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Obama/Rev. Wright/Michelle Obama


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#21 Binko

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:40 PM

Well, Obama's "dumping" of a 20 year old friendship (Rev. Wright) in order to make his election to the presidency viable is as suspicious as Palin's openly abandoning the needs of the family that she says she loves so much and holds so dear, in order to get elected to the vice-presidency, and are both as transparent as they are reprehensible.


Personally, dumping Wright under the bus lowered my estimation of Obama a notch, but it didn't seem like he had much of a choice given the political climate.

#22 54cermak

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:41 PM

Well, who would care what she thought when she was say, 6 years old. I think that splitting hairs and fighting over semantics is useless. Of course, she meant it as an adult and that was exactly the way it was taken.


Laura Bush even defended Michelle Obama on this one. It was clumsily worded, but everyone knew what she meant.

Her convention speech was supposed to erase any lingering doubt and by all accounts from left and right it did.

Nick's right, who is this troll?


petition's wrongheaded here, but she's done some good posting in the other '08 political threads. we have better, we have worse. try not to get your boxers in a bunch.


Thats what I mean. I've seen good posts from her before, but this is the sort of low-information-voter stuff you find in the comments section of your local newspaper. Even the worst political posters here are savvier than this. Something's not right.

#23 Duff.

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:42 PM

Well, Obama's "dumping" of a 20 year old friendship (Rev. Wright) in order to make his election to the presidency viable is as suspicious as Palin's openly abandoning the needs of the family that she says she loves so much and holds so dear, in order to get elected to the vice-presidency, and are both as transparent as they are reprehensible.

Maybe Obama should have married a more "palatable woman to the electorate" than Michelle.....and maybe Palin should have either stayed single or waited about twenty years before seeking a higher public office?

Monday morning quarterbacking is just that. Character flaws are what they are and they are visible in both candidates as they claw their way through their glass ceilings.

Right now, a ticket with Biden/McCain would be preferable to the odd-pairings of Obama/Palin, both of whom, methinks, have ulterior motives than just "serving their country". Palin and Obama have equal and disconcerting baggage, take your pick.



You forgot the winking emoticon.

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#24 brobee

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:45 PM

Well, who would care what she thought when she was say, 6 years old. I think that splitting hairs and fighting over semantics is useless. Of course, she meant it as an adult and that was exactly the way it was taken.


Laura Bush even defended Michelle Obama on this one. It was clumsily worded, but everyone knew what she meant.

Her convention speech was supposed to erase any lingering doubt and by all accounts from left and right it did.

Nick's right, who is this troll?


petition's wrongheaded here, but she's done some good posting in the other '08 political threads. we have better, we have worse. try not to get your boxers in a bunch.


Thats what I mean. I've seen good posts from her before, but this is the sort of low-information-voter stuff you find in the comments section of your local newspaper. Even the worst political posters here are savvier than this. Something's not right.


gotcha. and on that count, i agree. what happened to you petition? did you break board rules and give out your password?

#25 Petition

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:55 PM

I see. As long as I see eye-to-eye with the majority of persons interested in politics here, I am fairly palatable. As soon as I question cracks in the veneer of the selfsame party, I am suspect and not deemed very "saavy". This is part of human nature (all for one and one for all), but I believe that being circumspect about one's own opinions can only help in understanding the way people think, those who agree or disagree with one's affiliations. This can only be a good thing, for to be blind to the innate problems within your own thinking shall bring about the unraveling of your own opinions and render you to be, perhaps, blindsided. To wit, remember Kerry and his one day sailboarding and the next day, going hunting with the guys. Lot's of the electorate saw this as what it was and that helped usher in Bush's second term, as much as anything else. Never underestimate people's ability to detect insincerity.
"Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now....right now....Jesse Colin Young (Youngbloods). "Sugar, Sugar, honey, honey....you are my candygirl and you got me wantin' you.....*

#26 Duff.

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:57 PM

It's less that I disagree with you and more that you're being ridiculous.

No, it'll be stupid, and we're already doing something stupid.
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#27 arkin

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

all of the stuff about Wright and whatnot, I dunno, it's old news. People already know about this. It's lost its excitement. And Michelle presented herself as a really down to earth and likable mother/first lady/professional, etc. I just think that the media got tired of it and now we have BabyGate and eventually that will fizzle out too.

#28 b17yoe

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

LOL at The Real Guest being the first one to point out this obvious trolling.
Whatever.

#29 theremin

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:01 PM

petition MIGHT be one of the things currently wrong with America. A complete failure to understand to more than soundbites, or any sort of nuance at all. Obama gave what...a 20 minute speech about Rev. Wright? Talking about the good and bad qualities of the man and his church. Talking about the what he believes in that's similar to him, and what's different about him, and talking about how all SORTS of people maintain relationships with people even though they don't agree with certain things other people agree with, and that he is disappointed that he has to separate himself from him. And you boil it down to "he dumped him. For political reasons. Maybe he'll dump his wife he she gets mouthy too".

#30 brobee

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:02 PM

It's less that I disagree with you and more that you're being ridiculous.


even moreso, petition, i welcome your input, and i look forward to disagreeing, but questioning the obamas sincerity is like question the pope's catholicism. you can do so, you can even justify your queries, but it seems counterproductive. there isn't any way of knowing what obama feels in his heart of hearts, and his success is due mostly to his being able to be sincere about any number of issues. i do not believe that his allegiances are either here or there. he has shown himself to be measured and intelligent, and there is plenty of room for contradiction in intellectual life. this is why this conversation vexes me.

but regardless, i'd rather you speak your mind than feel censored. so, i don't know what.

#31 Nick

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:05 PM

brobee - You're a retard.

#32 Petition

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:17 PM

I had a chance to have a conversation with a life-long Democrat (we'd been out of touch for quite some time) who plans to vote Republican for the first time. I asked them to state exactly why they were planning to do this and I was very surprised and equally concerned, in the view of things, as to why this person would make such a change at exactly the time when Democrats need to hold onto their base. I then extrapolated that there might be a lot more folks crossing party lines than I had previously thought. I then wondered if this person's crossing party lines was a hidden faction that could indeed, cause the Democrats to lose the election. In any event, I think that if the Democrats don't shore up their own parties defections, or ignore them, or refuse to deal with the issue, that this, too, could lead to the same exact events that led to the shrub's re-election last time......and to be even more dumbfounded this time around.
"Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now....right now....Jesse Colin Young (Youngbloods). "Sugar, Sugar, honey, honey....you are my candygirl and you got me wantin' you.....*

#33 brobee

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:17 PM

brobee - You're a retard.


and?

if i don't cry about certain boarders when they go on their home improvement bends, i'm not going to all out attack someone because the ideas they are raising make absolutely no sense. i'd rather encourage civility, though by arguing that point with someone like you, i fear i may have confirmed your point.

#34 Binko

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:22 PM

I had a chance to have a conversation with a life-long Democrat (we'd been out of touch for quite some time) who plans to vote Republican for the first time. I asked them to state exactly why they were planning to do this and I was very surprised and equally concerned, in the view of things, as to why this person would make such a change at exactly the time when Democrats need to hold onto their base.


The main reason (other than racism) that I could see for a "life-long Democrat" not to vote for Obama is the experience angle, as well as the perception that Obama is all style and no substance (a criticism I disagree with.) On the flip side, my folks -- both life-long Republicans -- dislike McCain and are voting Obama this election around which, frankly, surprised me.

#35 Mitchell

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:24 PM

Good thread.in fact you could say it was ace.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#36 M_Rots

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 03:02 PM

On the whole, I did like the speech that Obama made at the DNC. I still have reservations regarding Obama's religious affiliations, Obama's wife's remarks about "being proud of the USA for the first time in her life" and Obama's true feelings about Israel's right to exist. I am sure that many other voters are wondering the same and that this may cause a last minute change of heart. Michelle Obama is a "loose cannon" at best.

Does anyone have reliable information about this? I know that the word "reliable" isn't an easy thing to ferret out, but I will be looking into this more myself, as time goes by.


I don't really understand what you're concerned about, in terms of what you specifically mention.

Who cares about these people's faith? Part of how we got to the mess we're in now is by voting for everything BUT what matters, which is what they want to do with our country. If people voted less based on religion, and whether they want to have a beer with the candidate, and how the candidate's wife sees anything, and more on the basis of what the candidate's philosophy of democracy is, moving into the future, and whether the era of big government is truly over or just on life support, I won't say everything would be magically better, but it would almost certainly be an improvement.

I don't need to feel comfy with Obama's wife, or with McCain's, for that matter, and where they go to church and what they worship in that church used to be no one's business but their own. Surely that was something which required no "improvement." I think you've allowed yourself to become distracted by the same misdirectional nonsense that too many of us have.

Wanna be nervous about something? Be nervous that Obama has an amazing vision for this country and no concrete plan for how to get there apart from attempting to raise taxes on the rich. Be nervous that McCain thinks all our problems can be solved by the market, a hope disappointed by almost 30 years of the market's faiure to do a heck of a lot more than assure me I can find a cup of Starbuck's and a Subway at every interstate exit ramp.

Be nervous that it's harder and harder for Americans to talk to their neighbors without running a background check and making sure they have the correct party affiliation. When Americans cannot talk to one another without feeling enraged/threatened/tempted to call the authorities by what they hear, that's a hell of a lot bigger problem than whether Michelle Obama is proud, ashamed or utterly indifferent to her country.

#37 demoncleaner

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 03:16 PM

Good thread.in fact you could say it was ace.


Ah, I see what you're doing there!

#38 Petition

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:45 PM

On the whole, I did like the speech that Obama made at the DNC. I still have reservations regarding Obama's religious affiliations, Obama's wife's remarks about "being proud of the USA for the first time in her life" and Obama's true feelings about Israel's right to exist. I am sure that many other voters are wondering the same and that this may cause a last minute change of heart. Michelle Obama is a "loose cannon" at best.

Does anyone have reliable information about this? I know that the word "reliable" isn't an easy thing to ferret out, but I will be looking into this more myself, as time goes by.


I don't really understand what you're concerned about, in terms of what you specifically mention.

Who cares about these people's faith? Part of how we got to the mess we're in now is by voting for everything BUT what matters, which is what they want to do with our country. If people voted less based on religion, and whether they want to have a beer with the candidate, and how the candidate's wife sees anything, and more on the basis of what the candidate's philosophy of democracy is, moving into the future, and whether the era of big government is truly over or just on life support, I won't say everything would be magically better, but it would almost certainly be an improvement.

I don't need to feel comfy with Obama's wife, or with McCain's, for that matter, and where they go to church and what they worship in that church used to be no one's business but their own. Surely that was something which required no "improvement." I think you've allowed yourself to become distracted by the same misdirectional nonsense that too many of us have.

Wanna be nervous about something? Be nervous that Obama has an amazing vision for this country and no concrete plan for how to get there apart from attempting to raise taxes on the rich. Be nervous that McCain thinks all our problems can be solved by the market, a hope disappointed by almost 30 years of the market's faiure to do a heck of a lot more than assure me I can find a cup of Starbuck's and a Subway at every interstate exit ramp.

Be nervous that it's harder and harder for Americans to talk to their neighbors without running a background check and making sure they have the correct party affiliation. When Americans cannot talk to one another without feeling enraged/threatened/tempted to call the authorities by what they hear, that's a hell of a lot bigger problem than whether Michelle Obama is proud, ashamed or utterly indifferent to her country.



I have never felt so queasy about both parties. Honestly; I voted against Bush, and I have gotten no satisfaction in knowing that I wasn't part of the debacle the ensued when he was voted in, anyway. I might get more satisfaction by not voting this time. I am tired of the evil and the disengenuous candidates. My hopes and dreams will get dashed either way. I was ready to vote for Hillary Clinton. I don't intend to sell myself short this time. For the first time in my life, I am just not voting.
"Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now....right now....Jesse Colin Young (Youngbloods). "Sugar, Sugar, honey, honey....you are my candygirl and you got me wantin' you.....*

#39 Nick

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:01 PM

Petition - I think the board would love to know what your hopes & dreams are.

#40 Agrimorfee

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:09 PM

I have never felt so queasy about both parties. Honestly; I voted against Bush, and I have gotten no satisfaction in knowing that I wasn't part of the debacle the ensued when he was voted in, anyway. I might get more satisfaction by not voting this time. I am tired of the evil and the disengenuous candidates. My hopes and dreams will get dashed either way. I was ready to vote for Hillary Clinton. I don't intend to sell myself short this time. For the first time in my life, I am just not voting.


Your 3rd option...
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