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Vinyl Dudes: I need your help


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#41 JeffTweedysFatStomach

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 07:23 PM

Which turntable are we dealing with here?

Pictures would be a big help.


Turntable is a Zenith Allegro Wedge from the mid 70s...

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#42 Sid Hartha

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 08:08 PM

Excellent. Let's see...

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This is a BSR turntable, pretty common for '70s combo sets.

The "rod with a small pinhead-like metal point" you described is just the arm lift. As long as it's not in physical contact with the tonearm when the cueing lever is down, there's no problem there.

The two things to look into are the tracking force and anti-skate adjustments. Both are very primitive on this type of tonearm - adjustable springs, both of them. Get a record that you don't like - you'll need it for the adjusting/testing.

Start with the anti-skate. Turn it all the way down (which, oddly, is clockwise). There's a fitting for a phillips screwdriver, but it's easy enough to turn by hand.

Next, you need to adjust the tracking force. Without a tracking force gauge, the general rule of thumb is to track as light as possible without skipping. You'll need a small, flat blade screwdriver for this. I'm pretty sure that clockwise = lighter. Start out extra light (sounds like you're already there). Gradually increase tracking force and repeat testing on your sacrificial record until it sounds alright and isn't skipping, then stop there.

If you made it this far and want to get fancy, you could try adjusting the anti-skating. You'll need a blank record - one with no grooves - running at 33RPM (Side 4 of Adore will do - rockists, use Second Winter.) The idea is to find the spot on the dial where the tonearm doesn't "skate" - either towards the center or off the edge. You'll get the idea...

Good luck.

#43 WP64

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 08:16 PM

Just purchased a new Vestax BDT 2600 Turntable. Its usually a $400-$450 turntable and I was able to snag this guy for $315 with shipping. I am now browsing for a good audio system. Some of the ones that were mentioned in this thread are $1,000+ which is kind of out of my price range. Not to mention I don't know where I would put those amps in my house. I was hoping, for now, to start with a nice set of book case speakers. I have been looking around but haven't stumbled across anything to exciting yet. Any suggestions?

#44 JeffTweedysFatStomach

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 09:28 PM

Sid - Thanks for all your help on this...I'm trying it now...so far so good. And just FYI - this is the record I have chosen...

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#45 JeffTweedysFatStomach

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 10:18 PM

Well, it no longer skips - but now it drags the tone arm across the record when a side is finished playing. Ugh.

#46 Sid Hartha

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 06:50 AM

Well, it no longer skips - but now it drags the tone arm across the record when a side is finished playing. Ugh.

Sounds like the cueing lift adjustment (see above picture I posted, it's that thing you initially tried to loosen/tighten) - it needs to be raised, as it's not lifting the arm high enough when the automatic arm return engages.

Almost there.

#47 hibster

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:19 AM

Just purchased a new Vestax BDT 2600 Turntable. Its usually a $400-$450 turntable and I was able to snag this guy for $315 with shipping. I am now browsing for a good audio system. Some of the ones that were mentioned in this thread are $1,000+ which is kind of out of my price range. Not to mention I don't know where I would put those amps in my house.

I was hoping, for now, to start with a nice set of book case speakers. I have been looking around but haven't stumbled across anything to exciting yet. Any suggestions?



contrary to earlier advice in this thread, most money should be spent on the source of the sound (cd player, turntable etc) then on the amp, then the speakers.
this operates on the garbage in garbage out principle.
really good speakers will show up the flaws on crappy source material & cannot make silk from a sows ear.

a bristish web site but
http://whathifi.com/...tBuys/Speakers/
sums it up in price brands re speakers for you
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#48 Rob Gordon

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:53 AM

Just purchased a new Vestax BDT 2600 Turntable. Its usually a $400-$450 turntable and I was able to snag this guy for $315 with shipping. I am now browsing for a good audio system. Some of the ones that were mentioned in this thread are $1,000+ which is kind of out of my price range. Not to mention I don't know where I would put those amps in my house.

I was hoping, for now, to start with a nice set of book case speakers. I have been looking around but haven't stumbled across anything to exciting yet. Any suggestions?



contrary to earlier advice in this thread, most money should be spent on the source of the sound (cd player, turntable etc) then on the amp, then the speakers.
this operates on the garbage in garbage out principle.
really good speakers will show up the flaws on crappy source material & cannot make silk from a sows ear.

a bristish web site but
http://whathifi.com/...tBuys/Speakers/
sums it up in price brands re speakers for you



I disagree and I've spent my adult life in the biz.
Get a good pair of bookshelf speakers.
My choice in bang for the buck is Paradigm. Figure out how much you can spend on the pair of speakers and buy the one's at that price.
The sad truth about high end audio today is that it's difficult, if not impossible, to audition numerous speakers in a store. More so than ever, one has to rely on reviews and customer comments online.

There's no denying that a good amp, say a McIntosh, brings that sound quality to a new level. Or that a high end CD player or turntable sounds better. But the difference in speakers is much more apparent and more easily achieved economically.
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#49 hibster

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:20 PM

that totally goes against the advice that any hifi magazine/ shop in the uk will give, so does show that european ears are different to us ones if that's the norm there. the big name brads certainly seem to be different - linn, cambridge audio, naim, arcam, rotel, marantz etc here it is accepted wisdom here that you need single speaker demonstration rooms as having extra speakers in the room will interfere with the sound, is it the same there? as a matter of interest have you compared the sound of two systems costing the same where the budget is split biased towards the speakers first compared with to the source first?
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#50 Rob Gordon

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:53 PM

that totally goes against the advice that any hifi magazine/ shop in the uk will give, so does show that european ears are different to us ones if that's the norm there. the big name brads certainly seem to be different - linn, cambridge audio, naim, arcam, rotel, marantz etc here

it is accepted wisdom here that you need single speaker demonstration rooms as having extra speakers in the room will interfere with the sound, is it the same there?



as a matter of interest have you compared the sound of two systems costing the same where the budget is split
biased towards the speakers first compared with to the source first?


1. That talk of single pair of speakers in a room to demo is insane. Every room is different acoustically. Add a chair to your listening room and the acoustics change. To remove all other speakers from a demo room is just audiophile BS. And as I say, demo rooms are disappearing.

2. In comparing 2 systems of like money with different distribution of it...you cannot make a discernable difference in sound through either the source or amp without spending much more than you would in upgrading speakers. A modest move up in speaker cost can make a noticable improvement in sound. The same cannot be said for source and amp.
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#51 throughsilver

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 03:46 PM

contrary to earlier advice in this thread, most money should be spent on the source of the sound (cd player, turntable etc) then on the amp, then the speakers.
this operates on the garbage in garbage out principle.
really good speakers will show up the flaws on crappy source material & cannot make silk from a sows ear.

a bristish web site but
http://whathifi.com/...tBuys/Speakers/
sums it up in price brands re speakers for you

Man, your first mistake was reading What Hi-Fi. Julian Richer (as in ...Sounds)-owned rag. Hi-Fi+ is a much better bet. They aren't related to any stores or manufacturers, like What Hi-Fi is (WHF = Richer Sounds = Cambridge Audio), and they actually buck trends when those trends need bucking.

Like the source-first pyramid. Kinda outdated thinking. Gordon is right... to a point. Speakers can up the overall quality of a system's sound. But it's dependent on so much. What the system is to begin with, how well the components work with each other, etc.

I had bargain basement set-up and upgraded my amp. That was born of necessity (other one go boom), but man alive, no affordable speaker would have made my system improve as much as that Cyrus did. It was so revitalising that I have little intention of replacing the speakers that cost me just 200 in 1999. It all depends. It also depends how modest an increase in cost we're talking.

Besides, what is the source? Is it your CD player, or the mains that feeds the player? Source-first can get silly.

That thing about 'no other speakers' is amazing nonsense. Why besmirch the sound quality with your own presence in that case? ;)

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#52 hibster

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:52 AM

last time i read any hifi magazines was when buying my first system back in the late 80's, figured it would be the same principles now, but guess with cd as main source things have changed

check out this guys set up though, now that's a system!
ok it's primarily for film, but stick on a music dvd on that, or neil youngs blu ray thing & that would be quite somthing

nb the thing with the speakers is more to do with the fact they vibrate with the sound rather than sound waves bouncing off them or them being absorbed isn't it?
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#53 Rob Gordon

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 08:20 AM

That theater set up is insane. 6 million bucks! 18 ft x 10 ft. screen! 30 2 channel McIntosh tube amps! The pictures make the room seems deceivingly small but obviously with that size screen it's a large room. It looks like a basketball court.
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#54 hibster

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 12:13 PM

pretty impressive record collection round the outside of the room as well!
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#55 throughsilver

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 06:31 PM

last time i read any hifi magazines was when buying my first system back in the late 80's, figured it would be the same principles now, but guess with cd as main source things have changed

As with anything technological, there will be changes over the course of twenty years ;)

Not just CD (which everyone is now discussing as a dead parrot, what with music servers abounding), but there are loads of developments in vinyl (some claiming the current best player is a direct-drive one), and how we listen. Source-first was indeed a big thing a while back, and that has settled down a lot. But the fact is, if you want a good system you have to get good components that work well together. There is no easy fix.

check out this guys set up though, now that's a system!
ok it's primarily for film, but stick on a music dvd on that, or neil youngs blu ray thing & that would be quite something

Yeah, that's pretty decent! Does he have to get air-lifted into the middle of the set-up?

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