25 replies to this topic

[Kate]

No, this isn't about the John Quinones thing on ABC. Although really, if you saw a guy drugging a girl's drink, are there people out there who wouldn't step in? If so, you are someone I don't want to know. Anyway, the real topic here is this conundrum that I'm in. A friend of a friend was looking for people to read his first novel and give him feedback. Anyway, since I am an avid reader I agreed to read the book and let him know what I think. You know what I think? I think it's terrible. I'm only on Chapter 3 and it's hard to read. I started putting in suggestions on phrasing, or notes on sentences that just don't work, but really, the whole thing doesn't work. There are a lot of very choppy sentences. A lot. Which gets old. Fast. Fast like lightning. Here's my dilemma. Do you think he really wants feedback, or do you think he wants people to tell him it's OK? And if he does want feedback, how much is too much? I know some of you here have written books, etc so I thought I'd see what you thought. I don't know this guy, so I have no idea his actual intent, or if he has a thin skin or whatever. What do I do? Help me SOMB!

[theminimumcircus]

No, this isn't about the John Quinones thing on ABC. Although really, if you saw a guy drugging a girl's drink, are there people out there who wouldn't step in? If so, you are someone I don't want to know.

Anyway, the real topic here is this conundrum that I'm in. A friend of a friend was looking for people to read his first novel and give him feedback. Anyway, since I am an avid reader I agreed to read the book and let him know what I think. You know what I think? I think it's terrible. I'm only on Chapter 3 and it's hard to read. I started putting in suggestions on phrasing, or notes on sentences that just don't work, but really, the whole thing doesn't work. There are a lot of very choppy sentences. A lot. Which gets old. Fast. Fast like lightning.
Here's my dilemma. Do you think he really wants feedback, or do you think he wants people to tell him it's OK? And if he does want feedback, how much is too much? I know some of you here have written books, etc so I thought I'd see what you thought. I don't know this guy, so I have no idea his actual intent, or if he has a thin skin or whatever. What do I do? Help me SOMB!

Honesty at all times.

[nobodies]

These sort of situations need the American Idol litmus test. Some people are so horribly untalented, and delusional (often as a result of people giving them faux-praise), that they need Simon Cowell to say in certain terms that they suck ass now, and will forever suck ass. Others might have some raw talent, but are in need of a vocal coach and a stylist. I think you need to decide what group this guy is in. Also, we (and maybe you) would really need more facts to assess the situation. How old is he? How long has he been writing (I know it's his first novel, but has he made any other attempts)? Is he generally smart in other fields? Personally, I'd probably just cop out and not give him any feedback, or some faint praise.

[Soma]

Although really, if you saw a guy drugging a girl's drink, are there people out there who wouldn't step in? If so, you are someone I don't want to know.

I would step in, but not in the way that you mean.

[Finn McCool]

There are a lot of very choppy sentences. A lot. Which gets old. Fast. Fast like lightning.
Here's my dilemma.

Did you do this on purpose?

[bleach]

if you have the strength, i would continue with the honest, red pen. what's that michael douglas line in wonder boys? "and you help the one's who aren't any good find their voice too because it's the only way they are going to figure out where they are going?"
dude needs to figure out if he can get better or if he should just make beautiful origami out of those pages.

[theminimumcircus]

I'd give him these two chunks of advice: 1. read three or four Henry James novels. 2. diagram a number of James' sentences, then a number of his own. I'm not being flippant.

[velocity]

These sort of situations need the American Idol litmus test. Some people are so horribly untalented, and delusional (often as a result of people giving them faux-praise), that they need Simon Cowell to say in certain terms that they suck ass now, and will forever suck ass. Others might have some raw talent, but are in need of a vocal coach and a stylist. I think you need to decide what group this guy is in.

Also, we (and maybe you) would really need more facts to assess the situation. How old is he? How long has he been writing (I know it's his first novel, but has he made any other attempts)? Is he generally smart in other fields?

Personally, I'd probably just cop out and not give him any feedback, or some faint praise.

Nobodies knows what's up. Maybe we need aspiring novelist Complain to chime in here too, but I would think that if the guy is serious about getting published, then he needs to hear some harsh truths at this stage. If his choppy style makes it unreadable past chapter 3, tell him. If the story seems OK, or hard to follow or hard to swallow, he should know that too. Then he needs to do a rewrite. Because it's not like you're going to change your mind halfway through, nor should you be expected to pile on the same criticisms throughout the work.

If you think he's untalented and is just kidding himself, then I'd tell him you're moving out of the country.

[Kate]

There are a lot of very choppy sentences. A lot. Which gets old. Fast. Fast like lightning.
Here's my dilemma.

Did you do this on purpose?

Yes. That's the kind of stuff I'm dealing with.

I don't think he's completely untalented. The premise of the book isn't bad, just the writing. I think he's writing like he talks, and that's part of the problem. I honestly believe the comments I'm writing in could be helpful. I'm not being mean about it, but writing "this sentence is awkward" I think, tells him what he needs to hear. I'm not writing stuff like "this whole paragraph sucks."

[theminimumcircus]

There are a lot of very choppy sentences. A lot. Which gets old. Fast. Fast like lightning.
Here's my dilemma.

Did you do this on purpose?

Yes. That's the kind of stuff I'm dealing with.

I don't think he's completely untalented. The premise of the book isn't bad, just the writing. I think he's writing like he talks, and that's part of the problem. I honestly believe the comments I'm writing in could be helpful. I'm not being mean about it, but writing "this sentence is awkward" I think, tells him what he needs to hear. I'm not writing stuff like "this whole paragraph sucks."

Tell him you think that writing some compound, complex, and compound-complex sentences can truly widen the range of possibilities for his writing. Tell him to write and utterly resist the urge to punctuate for, say, an entire page--then when he feels the need to punctuate, first go with the comma, then the semicolon/colon/em dash, before he reaches for the period.

[Montana]

I don't think he's completely untalented. The premise of the book isn't bad, just the writing. I think he's writing like he talks, and that's part of the problem. I honestly believe the comments I'm writing in could be helpful. I'm not being mean about it, but writing "this sentence is awkward" I think, tells him what he needs to hear. I'm not writing stuff like "this whole paragraph sucks."

Keep going with that. If he takes offense, it won't last. He will soon realize you were only trying to help, and that can only increase his chances of getting published. If he freaks out, tell him you spent your valuable time trying to help him and he should respond more favorably to your kindness.

[Petition]

I didn't get the object of the preposition or something.

[Campaigner]

Exactly. Find the things you're not turned off by and start there.

Give constructive criticism, but at the same time you should re-assure him of the stuff that does work. A flat-out "this sucks" isn't helpful. You've gotta tell someone not only what sucks, but why you think so and what you think might improve it.

If they really wanted your opinion (and not some blind "yeah it's great"), then some criticism won't be too bad.

[Complain]

Tell him truthfully what you think, especially if he's a friend. I've been a writer and editor on and off since I was 13. I've written stuff that sucked out loud, and I've written stuff that received awards (sometimes at the same time ). If his character in the book speaks in the manner in which he is writing, it can be an effective device. If not, he needs to stop it now. Keep in mind that he should get many different people to look at this - one person's opinion should not be the bulk of his critique. When I finished my book, I purposely sought the advice of several different personality types - people who I knew that "get" me, and others who didn't. I chose an editor, a personal friend, an avid reader, and a few others just for variety. Heck, I read everything I can get my hands on - send me a copy, and I'll critique it.

[6ome 9irl]

It sucks so stop reading and then just tell him you never got around to reading it.

[Complain]

It sucks so stop reading and then just tell him you never got around to reading it.

Yeah, because all friendships should be built around lies.

[The Truth]

So, what did you end up telling the guy, Kate?

[held]

No, this isn't about the John Quinones thing on ABC. Although really, if you saw a guy drugging a girl's drink, are there people out there who wouldn't step in? If so, you are someone I don't want to know.

Anyway, the real topic here is this conundrum that I'm in. A friend of a friend was looking for people to read his first novel and give him feedback. Anyway, since I am an avid reader I agreed to read the book and let him know what I think. You know what I think? I think it's terrible. I'm only on Chapter 3 and it's hard to read. I started putting in suggestions on phrasing, or notes on sentences that just don't work, but really, the whole thing doesn't work. There are a lot of very choppy sentences. A lot. Which gets old. Fast. Fast like lightning.
Here's my dilemma. Do you think he really wants feedback, or do you think he wants people to tell him it's OK? And if he does want feedback, how much is too much? I know some of you here have written books, etc so I thought I'd see what you thought. I don't know this guy, so I have no idea his actual intent, or if he has a thin skin or whatever. What do I do? Help me SOMB!

Truth be told Kate isn't this something you ask the person? Either you gloss over with a simple answer
or if they really want it you give em the nitty gritty and they can deal with reality of having poor writing skills.

[Kate]

If he was actually a friend, I would have asked him. He's a friend of a friend and I've only met him once, briefly. That's why I had such a dilemma, because I don't know if he has a thin skin or not. I ended up continuing with my constructive criticism. I wasn't mean about it, but I was honest. I offered suggestions on ways he could reword something to make it more clear, and I corrected grammar, etc. I looked over the entire thing before I returned it, and I think my suggestions were helpful, not hurtful. I just emailed it back, so I am waiting to see if I get a response from him. The book did get somewhat better, but it needs significant tightening up if anyone is going to actually read the thing. Thanks everyone for your input. It helped.

[Holiday in Risk]

Now that this has been resolved, can we talk about the show from our childhood of the same name? That pie chair never seemed fun.