82 replies to this topic

[Frank Valentine]

I, like, really hate hot dogs, and my girlfriend was eating a hot dog yesterday. Isn't that s0 ironic?

[Guy]

The first thing that came to mind was the Replacements covering "Black Diamond", by KISS. [/animated tongue gif. The Sex Pistols version of "My Way" seems to be the correct answer.

[Agrimorfee]

So does Ironic="we hate it, but we do it well", or "We love it, so we do it completely straight", or "we love it so we do it badly"?

If the latter, The Residents and Me First & The Gimme Gimmes are the indisputable masters.

Then there was that group Big Daddy who covered 80s hits (and the Sgt. Pepper album) as 50s/60s rockabilly & doowop. (Sample a few of their tunes by scrolling past Big Daddy Kane on this page)

[Your Little Hoodrat Friend]

I saw Jenny Lewis play this past week. Her and her Pineapple Express-ish boytoy Johnathan Rice busted out a cover of Nazareth's "Love Hurts". At first there was snickers in the crowd, but the duo performed the song straight-faced and quite beautifully. I think the crowd ended up loving this supposed "funny/uncool" song

This can't be a serious post. Ever heard of Gram fucking Parsons?

[Dead Billy]

I KNOW what ironic means. A good example would be rain on your wedding day.

[demoncleaner]

So does Ironic="we hate it, but we do it well", or "We love it, so we do it completely straight", or "we love it so we do it badly"?

d) "Hey look, we're covering a song that is completely unlike what people expect from us"

e.g. a heavy metal band covering a disco song.

Whether they like it or do it well doesn't play into the irony.

[Agrimorfee]

Howzabout "Brick House"--Rob Zombie ? "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" Revolting Cocks "Lay Lady Lay" Ministry

[Insane]

I don't think "Black Diamond" is ironic at all.

[elcorazon]

I remember when T Bone Burnett did a cool version of "Diamonds are A Girl's Best Friend" back in around 1982 or so. Clearly not the first, but I love that Richard Thompson covered songs like "Oops I Did it Again" and "1985", neither of which I think he actually dislikes at all, although he explains he chose "1985" only because it was the most downloaded song on itunes that month and figured it ought to get us up to date fully on 1000 years of popular music. Elvis Costello, being a part of the "new wave" (even punk) era, covering songs like "My Funny Valentine" and then doing a full album of country covers was similar, but again, I don't think any of these have to do with the artist not liking the song, more ironic that someone with a particular niche and audience would choose to play songs so antithetical to the reputation they have and the taste of their audience.

[brobee]

the problem with this thread is that no one knows what ironic means.

i'm pretty sure alanis morrisette taught me what that word means. take it up with her.

[Agrimorfee]

Elvis Costello, being a part of the "new wave" (even punk) era, covering songs like "My Funny Valentine" and then doing a full album of country covers was similar, but again, I don't think any of these have to do with the artist not liking the song, more ironic that someone with a particular niche and audience would choose to play songs so antithetical to the reputation they have and the taste of their audience.

Which also lumps in Linda Ronstadt (sp?), Rod Stewart, Sinead O'Connor, et al, not to mention the Christmas albums by Billy Idol and Twisted Sister, and Willie Nelson's reggae album.

[demoncleaner]

I think it's debatable whether this is technically irony we're talking about, but we all basically know what is meant by its use here. Don't we? Plus it's fun to use the word, it makes you feel witty and urbane, even when using it wrong.

[Complain]

I KNOW what ironic means. A good example would be rain on your wedding day.

Beat me to it.

[Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ]

I'm talking with a friend in a chat room right now about this, and he suggested that Marilyn singing Happy Birthday is fairly ironic, and probably the first instance of the ironic cover.

are you fucking dumb

[theremin]

he American Heritage Dictionary recognizes a secondary meaning for irony: “incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs.”

Hence, a dorky white guy doing gangsta rap is ironic. I'd buy Elvis Costello being ironic for a little while, but he clearly has now become known as someone who appreciates and covers ALL types of music, regardless of his "new wave" beginnings, so I don't really find it ironic any more.

Not all cross-genre covers are necessarily ironic. Norah Jones doing country songs is neither a stretch for her genre, or her style of music (which often already had a country influence to it). Branford Marsalis doing country might also not be ironic, given his history of consistently crossing boundaries. I would find Jamie Cullum doing country ironic. Or a trio of William Parker, Matthew Shipp and Hamid Drake.

I'm not completely sure why Sinead O'Connor doing country would be more ironic than The Clash covering Police and Thieves.

[Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ҈҉Ѡ]

haha guys ALANIS!

[Moo & Oink]

Talking Heads covering "Take Me To The River."

[Frank Valentine]

"Any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same." --- Henry Watson Fowler So, I think the ironic cover fits in that category...

[surlacarte]

"Any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same."

--- Henry Watson Fowler

Good definition. I would add that the surface and underlying meanings must be diametrically opposed, not merely different. Note that the secondary meaning, "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs," can be derived from the first definition if the reason you would expect something to happen turns out to be the reason that it doesn't happen. That's enough to account for the difference between fake, Alanis-style "irony" and real irony. So, if someone "won the lottery and died the next day," there's an incongruity between what might be expected to occur (good fortune) and what actually occurs (bad fortune), but it's not ironic because there's no connection between the good and bad fortune. However, if someone dies because they won the lottery (i.e. they're killed in a robbery of their new giant mansion), then that's ironic, because the surface meaning of winning the lottery (that is will bring you good fortune) and the underlying meaning (that it turns out to bring you bad fortune) are diametrically opposed.

Most of the examples in this thread fit this definition pretty well. I think the tricky cases are ones in which an artist covers another seemingly different genre or artist, but does so out of praise rather than mockery, like the Elvis Costello example from up thread, or many of Johnny Cash's covers. These are sincere, rather than ironic gestures, so there's no verbal irony here, but there may appear to be some situational irony in the fact that you wouldn't expect these artists to cover the genre they chose to cover (i.e. you wouldn't expect Elvis Costello to cover New Wave or Johnny Cash to cover Nine Inch Nails). However, if it's a good cover, the appearance of irony is usually based on a misunderstanding: if Johnny Cash discovers something in "Hurt" that actually fits with his aesthetic, than it turns out there's nothing ironic about him covering that song. Then you could maybe say that it was ironic that it ever seemed to be ironic (i.e. there's a gap between the surface meaning and the underlying meaning, because the gesture seemed to be ironic but turned out to be quite sincere and logical), but that's stretching things...

[hibster]

I KNOW what ironic means. A good example would be rain on your wedding day.

Beat me to it.

rain on your wedding day isn't ironic, it's unfortunate.
likewise being caught in a traffic jam when you're already late is not ironic; unless you are a town planner....
on your way to a meeting about traffic congestion.

ed byrne comedy routine that sums the difference between irony & bad luck in that particular song pretty well