15 replies to this topic

[chachmandu]

How many of the acclaimed non-hip-hop albums of the last few years can you think of that have great lyrics? Of 2008's P4k top 20, around half had either no words, nearly unintelligible words, or words that were merely fluff for electronic beats to bounce upon. What great albums since 2000 have had both - great music, great lyrics? Or does it matter? Can atmospherics reign alone? Does music without lyrical craft have as much meaning? (not taking sides here - I love Fennesz and Frightened Rabbit equally - just curious how things are trending...)

[Pavement Ist Rad]

Or does it matter?

Nah.

[Pavement Ist Rad]

A lot of music just isn't lyrically focused and doesn't need to be. That doesn't mean the lyrics are bad if there are any, though. They're just not the central focus, certainly not in the tradition of singer/songwriters such as Neil Young and Bob Dylan.

Sun Kil Moon's April had fantastic lyrics. The style Mark Kozelek is working in demands it, however. Not so for, say, Vivian Girls.

We're certainly not living in a post lyrics society. Bands today are just informed by a wider array of influences than ones in the '60s. They know that music can be just as engaging from a standpoint that is more sonically based.

[Duff.]

There hasn't been a greater lyrical achievement in the history of music than Vivian Girls' "No."

[Friend Catcher]

Most people seem to agree anymore that lyrics don't leave much of an impression unless they're conspicuously good or bad. Good lyricists are so incredibly rare. I guess it's easier to tease interesting sounds out of a guitar than words out of your brain.

[Hans Christian Anderson]

bah, i don't buy this. i dunno if we quite have dylan/young/lennon caliber lyricists today, but there are plenty of great lyrics still being writen. looking at my last 3 #1 albums i'd say lyrics are definitely one of each of their many strong suits. sun kil moon - april the national - boxer jenny lewis - rabbit fur coat (wow i'm gay)

[surlacarte]

How many of the acclaimed non-hip-hop albums of the last few years can you think of that have great lyrics? Of 2008's P4k top 20, around half had either no words, nearly unintelligible words, or words that were merely fluff for electronic beats to bounce upon.

What great albums since 2000 have had both - great music, great lyrics?
Or does it matter? Can atmospherics reign alone? Does music without lyrical craft have as much meaning?

(not taking sides here - I love Fennesz and Frightened Rabbit equally - just curious how things are trending...)

False premise - assumes P4k's top 20 (and even more narrowly, top 20 of a single year) is representative of the era. Also, your point is "around half" don't have great lyrics? So, around half do...

Also, thirded or whatever on April. And TV on the Radio. And the Walkmen. And Shearwater. And Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds. And Fleet Foxes. And {{{Sunset}}}. Damn, there goes all of the "non-hip-hop" albums in my top 10 except #1 Portishead, which I'll concede doesn't have lyrics which are inherently great, though they work damn well as performed.

Lastly, fuck this "post" shit. You're telling a bullshit narrative about a movement from music w/ lyrics to music w/o. What about previous periods w/o lyrics, like a shit ton of classical music? Maybe we're living in a pre-lyrical era - we've not yet begun to listen to the next round of music with great lyrics...

Anyway, nice try, but this point fails epically.

[SonicAlligator]

The Decemberists, Bon Iver, TV on the Radio, John Frusciante, The Dodos, Tallest Man on Earth, The National, Conor Oberst (he has his moments), The Black Keys, Okkervil River (terrific lyrics), DeVotchKa, Yeasayer, Little Joy, Damien Rice, Beirut, Interpol, and:



That's only to name a few. I strongly disagree with this claim.

[Eskimo kisses]

Suggestion that Interpol are good lyrically is blowing my mind right now.

[Mitchell]

Answer is clearly no but if those are held up as examples of good lyrics then I change my answer to yes.

[Eskimo kisses]

Depends how you define great lyrics anyway. Seems to me like you mean "thought provoking lyrics" to me "Down skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet" is a good lyric, cos it gets me moving, but it's not really poetic, I guess.

[hibster]

my favourite song introduction was yeas ago & i forget the name of the band, but the introduction went: "this is an instrumentla about hang gliding" & the lead singer left the stage whilst it was performed

[chachmandu]

How many of the acclaimed non-hip-hop albums of the last few years can you think of that have great lyrics? Of 2008's P4k top 20, around half had either no words, nearly unintelligible words, or words that were merely fluff for electronic beats to bounce upon.

What great albums since 2000 have had both - great music, great lyrics?
Or does it matter? Can atmospherics reign alone? Does music without lyrical craft have as much meaning?

(not taking sides here - I love Fennesz and Frightened Rabbit equally - just curious how things are trending...)

False premise - assumes P4k's top 20 (and even more narrowly, top 20 of a single year) is representative of the era. Also, your point is "around half" don't have great lyrics? So, around half do...

Also, thirded or whatever on April. And TV on the Radio. And the Walkmen. And Shearwater. And Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds. And Fleet Foxes. And {{{Sunset}}}. Damn, there goes all of the "non-hip-hop" albums in my top 10 except #1 Portishead, which I'll concede doesn't have lyrics which are inherently great, though they work damn well as performed.

Lastly, fuck this "post" shit. You're telling a bullshit narrative about a movement from music w/ lyrics to music w/o. What about previous periods w/o lyrics, like a shit ton of classical music? Maybe we're living in a pre-lyrical era - we've not yet begun to listen to the next round of music with great lyrics...

Anyway, nice try, but this point fails epically.

I'll definitely have to recheck April. Guess I didn't give it much of a chance, despite the fact that RHP were a 90s staple for me. And certainly agree with many of the others as well.

Not trying to make a point with this post, but wondering if lyrics are less necessary to connect to the masses in the rock/pop vein than they have been for awhile. And wondering whether there is any reason for that to happen?

I agree with you that in classical (at this point in time), and heck nobody's even mentioned jazz yet, lyrics are a side dish to accompany the main. Perhaps it is a function of the lyrical stamina within the genre. Maybe there are limits to what can be expressed through words, more colors possible through musical tone, and once a genre has exhausted topics lyrically, the music alone labors on to express the emotions left uncaptured.

Conversely, it could be a function of critical maturity. Perhaps ability to fully assess the emotional content of a music beyond lyrical content comes with listening experience?

Or is it a function of industry? Are good lyrics harder to create? Perhaps good lyrics require multiple performances, revisions, the sculpting hand of time. And in an industry requiring quick turn around, where the productive/lucrative life of a song is much shorter, there's not incentive to put work into lyrical content.

I also like the point that our musical tastes are not derived from one musical tradition. If one can include Fennesz (electroambient), Frightened Rabbit (indie pub rock), TVOTR (black industrial rock), Fleet Foxes (pastoral folk rock), Why? (indie-absurdist-hop), Hauschka (acoustic piano gimmickry), Olof Arnalds (Scandyfolk), No Age (LA garage punk), Okkervil River (country-tinged rock), Paavoharju (electroambient/freakfolk collage), Gang Gang Dance (trans-border freak pop), Fuck Buttons (fluorescent electronoise), Flying Lotus (eroded ambient beats) all among one's top listens, appreciating them all for interesting/challenging/enjoyable albums they are, shouldn't that be seen more as a sign of popular musical progress than of loss?

Cheers to everyone replying thoughtfully.

[Duff.]

Suggestion that Interpol are good lyrically is blowing my mind right now.

Holy shit, yeah.

[MuteSuperstar]

Yeah, I love Interpol, but they're not exactly wordsmiths. Sometimes their lyrics work really well, but they are just as often clunky and silly. But it all somehow usually works fine within the context of their music.

[surlacarte]

How many of the acclaimed non-hip-hop albums of the last few years can you think of that have great lyrics? Of 2008's P4k top 20, around half had either no words, nearly unintelligible words, or words that were merely fluff for electronic beats to bounce upon.

What great albums since 2000 have had both - great music, great lyrics?
Or does it matter? Can atmospherics reign alone? Does music without lyrical craft have as much meaning?

(not taking sides here - I love Fennesz and Frightened Rabbit equally - just curious how things are trending...)

False premise - assumes P4k's top 20 (and even more narrowly, top 20 of a single year) is representative of the era. Also, your point is "around half" don't have great lyrics? So, around half do...

Also, thirded or whatever on April. And TV on the Radio. And the Walkmen. And Shearwater. And Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds. And Fleet Foxes. And {{{Sunset}}}. Damn, there goes all of the "non-hip-hop" albums in my top 10 except #1 Portishead, which I'll concede doesn't have lyrics which are inherently great, though they work damn well as performed.

Lastly, fuck this "post" shit. You're telling a bullshit narrative about a movement from music w/ lyrics to music w/o. What about previous periods w/o lyrics, like a shit ton of classical music? Maybe we're living in a pre-lyrical era - we've not yet begun to listen to the next round of music with great lyrics...

Anyway, nice try, but this point fails epically.

I'll definitely have to recheck April. Guess I didn't give it much of a chance, despite the fact that RHP were a 90s staple for me. And certainly agree with many of the others as well.

Not trying to make a point with this post, but wondering if lyrics are less necessary to connect to the masses in the rock/pop vein than they have been for awhile. And wondering whether there is any reason for that to happen?

I agree with you that in classical (at this point in time), and heck nobody's even mentioned jazz yet, lyrics are a side dish to accompany the main. Perhaps it is a function of the lyrical stamina within the genre. Maybe there are limits to what can be expressed through words, more colors possible through musical tone, and once a genre has exhausted topics lyrically, the music alone labors on to express the emotions left uncaptured.

Conversely, it could be a function of critical maturity. Perhaps ability to fully assess the emotional content of a music beyond lyrical content comes with listening experience?

Or is it a function of industry? Are good lyrics harder to create? Perhaps good lyrics require multiple performances, revisions, the sculpting hand of time. And in an industry requiring quick turn around, where the productive/lucrative life of a song is much shorter, there's not incentive to put work into lyrical content.

I also like the point that our musical tastes are not derived from one musical tradition. If one can include Fennesz (electroambient), Frightened Rabbit (indie pub rock), TVOTR (black industrial rock), Fleet Foxes (pastoral folk rock), Why? (indie-absurdist-hop), Hauschka (acoustic piano gimmickry), Olof Arnalds (Scandyfolk), No Age (LA garage punk), Okkervil River (country-tinged rock), Paavoharju (electroambient/freakfolk collage), Gang Gang Dance (trans-border freak pop), Fuck Buttons (fluorescent electronoise), Flying Lotus (eroded ambient beats) all among one's top listens, appreciating them all for interesting/challenging/enjoyable albums they are, shouldn't that be seen more as a sign of popular musical progress than of loss?

Cheers to everyone replying thoughtfully.

OK, this is much better thought out than the original post and deserves an intelligent response...so later tonight. I warn you that I'm going to have to invoke Hegel...

This is almost a Sickpup thread, btw