Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

The SOMB's Top 300 LPs of '65 - '74


  • Please log in to reply
1009 replies to this topic

#901 Freddie Freelance

Freddie Freelance

    Dieu d'Or

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6335 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:07 PM



BTW, if it's any of my business--is the AMG reviewer with the same last name a relative of yours?


Yes, he's my uncle--I was commenting to Mitch the other day how weird it was looking up the AMG blurbs for all these albums, since I'd wager almost half of them were written by him. '65 - '74 is his deal, pretty much. Between my posting, my dad's list and my uncle's blurbs though, this was a real Unterberger family effort. Cool.

Oh, and it's gonna be a little while before I start the singles--I gotta catch up on all of the shit I should've been doing this weekend while I was doing this list, and I've got a monster project due next Tuesday I needto get cracking on. By this time next week I'll probably have started.

What's you Dad's list look like? How close to the final order did he come? :P
Rev. Dr. Frederick J. Freelance, Ph.D., Th.D., D.F.S.
Posted Image

Should have stayed home and drank beer instead of going to work today.

Now Playing: Brahms, Symphony No 2; Giulini - Wiener

Heh heh, he said "Wiener"...

#902 Pavement Ist Rad

Pavement Ist Rad

    What would the Melvins say?

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13223 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:17 PM

Wait, Richie Unterberger is really your uncle??!! I had no idea! This is awesome! He reviewed the shit out of the Byrds.
Posted Image

Damo Suzuki: So, um, yeah. Getting older isn't as bad as it sounds. Better than being young & poor (DjDrake) or young & slutty (SG) or young, poor and slutty (Paves); am I right?

Alright, my friends. It's time for another solid little rock jam

#903 Tracy Jacks

Tracy Jacks

    Hipster

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPip
  • 1387 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:26 PM

And how about that "Album's SOMB rated lower (us/ them/ difference)" list Mitchell posted? What a bunch of albums that I mostly don't give a shit about! Good job, SOMB.

I think the "Album's SOMB rated higher" list does a good job of exposing SOMB bias. 1/3 of the list are from the experimental/avant-garde/art rock genre.

The "Albums SOMB rated lower" list is more diverse.

#904 The Good Dr Bill

The Good Dr Bill

    Maybe. Maybe Not. Maybe Fuck Yourself.

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11511 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:32 PM


What's you Dad's list look like? How close to the final order did he come? :P


I posted it earlier in the voting thread. It's at the top of one of the pages in the middle.

Wait, Richie Unterberger is really your uncle??!! I had no idea! This is awesome! He reviewed the shit out of the Byrds.


Yeah. He lives out on the West Coast so I don't see him very much. When I do, he's usually more nervous-looking and anti-social than I am, which is really saying something. Got pretty good taste in garage rock and psychedelia though.
what does he file at the hall of records? a declaration of tortoise intent

#905 Montana

Montana

    Golden God

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11536 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:32 PM


And how about that "Album's SOMB rated lower (us/ them/ difference)" list Mitchell posted? What a bunch of albums that I mostly don't give a shit about! Good job, SOMB.

I think the "Album's SOMB rated higher" list does a good job of exposing SOMB bias. 1/3 of the list are from the experimental/avant-garde/art rock genre.

The "Albums SOMB rated lower" list is more diverse.




I think the biggest slight is stuff like the Allman Brothers, Skynyrd and CCR. Every forum probably has it's own overall bias, however.
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
- The Felice Brothers

#906 Mitchell

Mitchell

    dirty old man

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 20702 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:00 PM


And how about that "Album's SOMB rated lower (us/ them/ difference)" list Mitchell posted? What a bunch of albums that I mostly don't give a shit about! Good job, SOMB.

I think the "Album's SOMB rated higher" list does a good job of exposing SOMB bias. 1/3 of the list are from the experimental/avant-garde/art rock genre.

The "Albums SOMB rated lower" list is more diverse.


I disagree, I think they are just as diverse as each other. The SOMB rated higher list does contain a lot of experimental/avant-garde/art rock genre, some of which could be explained by the Can/Neu!/Faust thread that the board had. On the other hand there are albums by the likes of Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd, The Kinks and Harry Nilsson on that list. Even Help! is "too high".

On the other list we see a lot of albums that haven't really caught the imagination of anyone under 40 for nearly 25 years, In some cases SOMB were perfectly right to smack the albums back down to reality. Did we really want to see Pearl at #82? or Aftermath at #59? or Layla & Other Assorted Love Songs at #34 Imagine at #41?. On the other hand I feel the like of Scott Walker, Nick Drake and few other singer songwriters did get shafted but in some cases it was as SOMB have decided that they prefer one album by an artist over the one that Acc. Music ranks highest. Votes for Pink Moon, Catch a Fire and Between The Buttons are the main reasons other albums by those artists got left behind.

The reason that The Grateful Dead, CSN(&Y), Allman Bros. and the like got left behind is because SOMB prefers Can, Neu and Big Star. Good for us I say this is our list, not Rolling Stones. This doesn't make those records bad ones and if people haven't heard them they should check them out.

I don't think we should vote for something just to be different, nor do I think we should be just voting for something to be the same.



I think the biggest slight is stuff like the Allman Brothers, Skynyrd and CCR. Every forum probably has it's own overall bias, however.


True. I think it's also fair that I should point out that bar Dark Side and Piper (which were both still in the top 55) every Pink Floyd album out performed it's critical expectation (if that's what we can call it). Some aren't even in the top 2500 so one could argue that it's quite fair to say the votes/boters in this poll were just as 'biased' to Pink Floyd as they were to the experimental/avant-garde/art rock genre.

us/them ( :D lol)

Pink Floyd - A Saucerful of Secrets 195 257
Pink Floyd - Atom Heart Mother 256 258
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon 19 13
Pink Floyd - Meddle 63 235
Pink Floyd - Piper at the Gates of Dawn 72 52
Pink Floyd - More 202 N/A
Pink Floyd - Ummagumma 200 N/A

This isn't just Floyd bashing; Kiss, The Residents and Red Krayola were entries by albums with little critical fanfar too, mainly as they have large support from enthusiastic fans. And good for them, it's that element that prevents the list from looking like any others out there.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#907 Freddie Freelance

Freddie Freelance

    Dieu d'Or

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6335 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:02 PM



What's you Dad's list look like? How close to the final order did he come? :P


I posted it earlier in the voting thread. It's at the top of one of the pages in the middle.

I'm sorry, I missed it and the SOMB search function sucks. Meh, I'll have to search that thread by hand.


Wait, Richie Unterberger is really your uncle??!! I had no idea! This is awesome! He reviewed the shit out of the Byrds.


Yeah. He lives out on the West Coast so I don't see him very much. When I do, he's usually more nervous-looking and anti-social than I am, which is really saying something. Got pretty good taste in garage rock and psychedelia though.

Bay Area or SeaTac?

Hey, if I buy both Unknown Legends and Urban Spacemen will he sign'em?
Rev. Dr. Frederick J. Freelance, Ph.D., Th.D., D.F.S.
Posted Image

Should have stayed home and drank beer instead of going to work today.

Now Playing: Brahms, Symphony No 2; Giulini - Wiener

Heh heh, he said "Wiener"...

#908 Pavement Ist Rad

Pavement Ist Rad

    What would the Melvins say?

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13223 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:10 PM

Mitchell, nice job explaining shit a couple of posts ago.

Don't you people want a nice mixture of obvious Stones/Dylan/Beatles, oldster folky/West Coast psychedelia/singer-songwriter stuff, and freaky, noisy shit? It just shows that the board is pretty damn diverse. If everybody here liked the crazy, difficult jizz, it would be no fun and it would just be like those OTHER message boards. Of course, if it was all folky/West Coast psychedelia/southern rock/singer-songwriter whatever, well, that wouldn't be any fun either. I mean, look at my little list. Steely Dan chills with the United States of America. It's all good, people. This bias nonsense is wrong-o.

And, yeah, holy crap, that's a lot of Pink Floyd. Everything except Obscured By Clouds, right? Impressive.
Posted Image

Damo Suzuki: So, um, yeah. Getting older isn't as bad as it sounds. Better than being young & poor (DjDrake) or young & slutty (SG) or young, poor and slutty (Paves); am I right?

Alright, my friends. It's time for another solid little rock jam

#909 Mitchell

Mitchell

    dirty old man

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 20702 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:19 PM

Thanks Pavs. At the end of the day there's a list in post #881 and our list in post #896. I think ours is much more interesting.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#910 The Truth

The Truth

    Lurker

  • Sombie
  • Pip
  • 78 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:23 PM

And, yeah, holy crap, that's a lot of Pink Floyd. Everything except Obscured By Clouds, right? Impressive.
[/quote]

Yeah, there's no bias against Floyd here. Floyd isn't done either--they'll have more albums on the 75-84 list.

#911 Montana

Montana

    Golden God

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11536 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:31 PM

True. I think it's also fair that I should point out that bar Dark Side and Piper (which were both still in the top 55) every Pink Floyd album out performed it's critical expectation (if that's what we can call it). Some aren't even in the top 2500 so one could argue that it's quite fair to say the votes/boters in this poll were just as 'biased' to Pink Floyd as they were to the experimental/avant-garde/art rock genre.

us/them ( :D lol)

Pink Floyd - A Saucerful of Secrets 195 257
Pink Floyd - Atom Heart Mother 256 258
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon 19 13
Pink Floyd - Meddle 63 235
Pink Floyd - Piper at the Gates of Dawn 72 52
Pink Floyd - More 202 N/A
Pink Floyd - Ummagumma 200 N/A



All that really tells me is that AM(and many critics lists) are way off. Some albums get progressivley better over time, and some of these albums listed have done just that(ummaguma, meddle, Saucerful ) - they were a bit too wacked out for the masses when they were released - and are seen today as cutting edge and influential, whereas upon their release they were seen as "wtf?". This is reflected in their respective year end lists. Dark Side was the most "songy" so of course it placed higher on the year end lists of it's time. That just means it was more digestible to the masses. Also, most of those albums didn't have a single which influences list prowess.

It would be interesting to see the same critics compiling year end lists all over again for the past 40 years....



This isn't just Floyd bashing; Kiss, The Residents and Red Krayola were entries by albums with little critical fanfar too, mainly as they have large support from enthusiastic fans. And good for them, it's that element that prevents the list from looking like any others out there.


I don't look at it as bashing at all, just time catching up with artists who were ahed of their time. The only way to correct this error in AM is to have these critics go back and redo their lists.
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
- The Felice Brothers

#912 Mitchell

Mitchell

    dirty old man

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 20702 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:51 PM

Plenty of albums, not just Pink Floyd ones, get left off year end lists. Do you think The Velvet Underground & Nico was winning album of the year polls in 1967? It wasn't, I don't think I've seen a contemporary best of for any year from the 60's. (Dave Mrash and Xgau have lists but I don't think those were done at the time) Pazz and Jop are only on their 33rd (32nd) list and the NME didn't do an end of year list until 1974.

But these albums must appear on some lists else they wouldn't be on the charts and Funeral and Illnois would be considered two of the 10 best records of all time as they have appeared at the top on several dozen EOY lists. The reason they don't is all time/decade polls which you find albums like The Velvet Underground & Nico at the top of and you don't find Pink Floyd albums that are pre-DSOTM and aren't Piper anywhere near the top.

The critics don't need to go back and revisit old year end lists as they make up for it with the non-stop all time lists. I seriously doubt that if the Village Voice conducted a Pazz and Jop style poll for the years 1968-1971 that the likes of Ummagumma, More and Obscured By Clouds would be sitting near the top of lists else we would have already noticed them on the all time best of lists.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#913 Waylon

Waylon

    Hipster

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPip
  • 4390 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:59 PM

721 albums in all ... Bill, it would be interesting to hear what your uncle thinks of the list if you ever get a chance to show him.

I think the biggest slight is stuff like the Allman Brothers, Skynyrd and CCR. Every forum probably has it's own overall bias, however.


I blame last week's American Cosmic Music flare-up.

Still waiting for Slackmo to delete this thread.


#914 Montana

Montana

    Golden God

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11536 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:15 PM

.

But these albums must appear on some lists else they wouldn't be on the charts and Funeral and Illnois would be considered two of the 10 best records of all time as they have appeared at the top on several dozen EOY lists. The reason they don't is all time/decade polls which you find albums like The Velvet Underground & Nico at the top of and you don't find Pink Floyd albums that are pre-DSOTM and aren't Piper anywhere near the top.



Well you have a point - but VU, Piper and Dark Side are also much more palpable "songy" records.


The critics don't need to go back and revisit old year end lists as they make up for it with the non-stop all time lists.



Then why does AM still include the year lists?

That's the problem I have with AM. You can't really compare decade or even years because of the high amount of varying quality between decades. And most "all time " lists are based off of the original year lists, which were never updated or offered as alternative versions.
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
- The Felice Brothers

#915 voodoodaddy

voodoodaddy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 246 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:16 PM

Great job again Bill, even if in the end it was just another list topped by the Beatles... That's to be expected though and there were plenty of interesting choices. The singles list is gonna be killer.
Who's your daddy?

#916 Tracy Jacks

Tracy Jacks

    Hipster

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPip
  • 1387 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:58 PM

Mitchell, nice job explaining shit a couple of posts ago.

Don't you people want a nice mixture of obvious Stones/Dylan/Beatles, oldster folky/West Coast psychedelia/singer-songwriter stuff, and freaky, noisy shit? It just shows that the board is pretty damn diverse. If everybody here liked the crazy, difficult jizz, it would be no fun and it would just be like those OTHER message boards. Of course, if it was all folky/West Coast psychedelia/southern rock/singer-songwriter whatever, well, that wouldn't be any fun either. I mean, look at my little list. Steely Dan chills with the United States of America. It's all good, people. This bias nonsense is wrong-o.

And, yeah, holy crap, that's a lot of Pink Floyd. Everything except Obscured By Clouds, right? Impressive.

I don't believe I suggested that the list, or the SOMB board, lack diversity. I agree that one of the strengths of this board IS it's diversity.

I did mean to suggest that the strongest biases of the list was the high ranking of experimental/avant garde rock. Since I'm not a fan of that type of music (ok, I hate it), I wish the bias was somewhere else, but what are you going to do. (Relentlessly hype power pop for the 75-84 poll is one idea :) ).

It's to the credit of the list and this board that there appears to be only one strong upward bias. I agree with Mitchell, the rest of the "rated higher" list is quite diverse. (Although I do spot three Beatles related albums in the list, which I think highlights another slight bias. I like that one, though).

I also think its interesting that no strong bias shows up in the "rated lower" list. Shows that SOMB can pull out the best of artists/genres that it doesn't strongly support, another admirable trait. Maybe you could argue that there was a bias against overplayed classic rock, such as the three Clapton related albums on the list. If that bias exists, and I'm not sure that data supports it, I think its weak at best, particularly when many classic rock albums did just fine on the poll.

I thought while watching the poll roll out that Soul did not fair that well. But the "rated lower" data doesn't lend any support to that idea. Plus I suspect that Soul will do just fine on the singles poll, which is as it should be.

Finally, I think that the transvestite/glam cabal needs to put forth a much better effort in trashing country rock the next time around. Only one country rock album in the "rated lower" list just doesn't cut it. Unless Acclaimed Music is somehow part of the conspiricy . . .

#917 falling and laughing

falling and laughing

    Hipster

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPip
  • 1089 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:19 PM

Some albums get progressivley better over time, and some of these albums listed have done just that(ummaguma, meddle, Saucerful ) - they were a bit too wacked out for the masses when they were released - and are seen today as cutting edge and influential, whereas upon their release they were seen as "wtf?".


exactly, hence mitchell's description as to why stuff like faust is on his SOMB>AM list and boring muso shit like the allman brothers is on the opposite list ;)

hopefully the transvestite/glam cabal is gonna kick some ass re: the late 70s and early 80s - I'm sorry I didn't take the time to do this one (or the singles) but glad to see all the roxy/eno/bowie/mott/bolan placements.

in all honesty, I do think these generational splits reveal fundamental changes in critical/listener consensus over the years, and there is shift away from some qualitative values and increased consideration/embrace of others: the denim-and-beard, blues-rooted, riffs'n'licks hyperAmericentric guitar rock (southern rock, every clapton project ever, most SF late 60s stuff, etc.) hasn't been nearly as popular with indie kids as the krautrock, nuggets-esque garage, sunshine and/or psych (beach boys, zombies, etc.), glam, and most younger, 'post-punk era' listeners seem to have a lot more tolerance for artifice and style and hooks and melody and arrangements over virtuosity and individial technical skill and more curiousity about electronic music in general (reminds me: Did Cluster 71 make this list??). This could all be its own lengtyh thread, and it's all built on wide generalizations that don't hold up in nearly all cases (e.g. montana did praise tangerine dream, and most of the non-classic rock radio pink floyd fits here-- no suprise stuff like Echoes is rightfully critically rehabilitated by kids raised by radiohead and the flaming lips and used to the textures and sounds of electronic and hip-hop music)

#918 Mitchell

Mitchell

    dirty old man

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 20702 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:20 PM

I think there should be a Eno, Bowie, Hunter and CGI Bolan supergroup called The Transvestite/Glam Cabal.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#919 Montana

Montana

    Golden God

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11536 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:20 PM

xactly, hence mitchell's description as to why stuff like faust is on his SOMB>AM list and boring muso shit like the allman brothers is on the opposite list ;)



Say what you want about the studio albums but if you saw that band live in the 90's you would not use the term "boring" to describe them. They are simply an incredible live act, and even though I am a huge fan of many current bands, the Allman Brothers simply embarrass those acts in a live setting.


hopefully the transvestite/glam cabal is gonna kick some ass re: the late 70s and early 80s - I'm sorry I didn't take the time to do this one (or the singles) but glad to see all the roxy/eno/bowie/mott/bolan placements.



ahh what have I created?
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
- The Felice Brothers

#920 Mitchell

Mitchell

    dirty old man

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 20702 posts

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:21 PM




Say what you want about the studio albums



OK, they are rubbish.

but if you saw that band live in the 90's you would not use the term "boring" to describe them.


We will bare that in mind when we vote for our favourite 25 year old acts who played gigs in the 90's poll.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.