Jump to content


Pope Declares Islam 'evil and inhuman'


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_NumberTenOx_*

Guest_NumberTenOx_*
  • Guests

Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:02 PM

Let's not forget the Turkish official who compares the Pope to Hitler. I thought the Iranians were Hitler?

Will someone tell me who is Hitler this week?

Turkish official compares pope to Hitler
Politician joins outcry across Muslim world over pontiff's comments in Islam
The Associated Press

Updated: 1:18 p.m. ET Sept 15, 2006

ISTANBUL, Turkey - Pakistan’s legislature unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon’s top Shiite cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused him of reviving the mentality of the Crusades.

Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict’s remarks on Islam and jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that many fear could burst into violent protests like those that followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

By citing an obscure Medieval text that characterizes some of the teachings of Islam’s founder as “evil and inhuman,” Benedict inflamed Muslim passions and aggravated fears of a new outbreak of anti-Western protests.

The last outpouring of Islamic anger at the West came in February over the prophet cartoons first published in a Danish newspaper. The drawings sparked protests — some of them deadly — in almost every Muslim nation in the world.

Some experts said the perceived provocation by the spiritual leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics could leave even deeper scars.

“The declarations from the pope are more dangerous than the cartoons, because they come from the most important Christian authority in the world — the cartoons just came from an artist,” said Diaa Rashwan, an analyst in Cairo, Egypt, who studies Islamic militancy.

Pakistan demands apology
On Friday, Pakistan’s parliament adopted a resolution condemning Benedict for making what it called “derogatory” comments about Islam, and seeking an apology. Hours later, the Pakistani Foreign Ministry summoned the Vatican’s ambassador to express regret over the pope’s remarks Tuesday.

Notably, the strongest denunciations came from Turkey — a moderate democracy seeking European Union membership where Benedict is scheduled to visit in November as his first trip as pope to a Muslim country.

Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Islamic-rooted party, said Benedict’s remarks were either “the result of pitiful ignorance” about Islam and its prophet or, worse, a deliberate distortion.

“He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world,” Kapusuz told Turkish state media. “It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades.”

Compared to Hitler, Mussolini
“Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history for his words,” Kapusuz added. “He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini.”

Even Turkey’s staunchly pro-secular opposition party demanded the pope apologize before his visit. Another party led a demonstration outside Ankara’s largest mosque, and a group of about 50 people placed a black wreath outside the Vatican’s diplomatic mission.

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi has tried to defuse anger, saying the pope did not intend to offend Muslim sensibilities and insisting Benedict respects Islam. In Pakistan, the Vatican envoy voiced regret at “the hurt caused to Muslims.”

But Muslim leaders said outreach efforts by papal emissaries were not enough.

“We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology — not through his officials,” Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanon’s most senior Shiite cleric, told worshippers in Beirut.

Some demonstrations already
Rashwan, the analyst, feared the official condemnations could be followed by widespread popular protests. Already there had been scattered demonstrations in several Muslim countries.

“What we have right now are public reactions to the pope’s comments from political and religious figures, but I’m not optimistic concerning the reaction from the general public, especially since we have no correction from the Vatican,” Rashwan said.

The pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th-century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,” Benedict said. “He said, I quote, ’Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”’


The pope did not explicitly agree with nor repudiate the comment.

In Britain, the head of the Muslim Council, a body representing 400 Muslim groups, said the emperor’s views quoted by the pope were bigoted.

Higher expectations of the pope
“One would expect a religious leader such as the pope to act and speak with responsibility and repudiate the Byzantine emperor’s views in the interests of truth and harmonious relations between the followers of Islam and Catholicism,” said Muhammad Abdul Bari, the council’s secretary-general.

Many Muslims accused Benedict of seeking to promote Judeo-Christian dominance over Islam.

Few in Turkey, especially, failed to pick up on Benedict’s reference to Istanbul as Constantinople — the city’s name more than 500 years ago — before it was conquered by Muslim Ottoman Turks.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel defended the German-born pope, saying his message had been misunderstood.

“It is an invitation to dialogue between religions and the pope has explicitly urged this dialogue, which I also endorse and see as urgently necessary,” she said Friday. “What Benedict XVI makes clear is a decisive and uncompromising rejection of any use of violence in the name of religion.”
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14846353/



#2 pong

pong

    Rockist

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9208 posts

Posted 15 September 2006 - 08:09 PM

’Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. Why would the Pope repudiate an obvious truth that might bring the world to it's knees?

#3 Ben

Ben

    Hipster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3224 posts

Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:21 PM

The pope did not declare Islam evil and inhuman. He quoted someone else.
No, I'm Alpha Male.

#4 Bhickman

Bhickman

    Rockist

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5085 posts

Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:24 PM

Jesus...will everyone just get on with the nuking of the world already and be done with it? More proof that religion is our downfall as humans. How did we go from believing men lived in the sky that controlled our faiths to now and not drop this insane belief in fairy tales? What is wrong with the world? GOD???? Yeah, we're all going to heaven and will sit on tuft clouds and eat cookies and never get full and a virgin will blow us every hour...right.
Rock & Roll Ghost Message Board

"No one on the corner has swagga like us"

#5 stovich

stovich

    Newbie

  • Sombie
  • PipPip
  • 407 posts

Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:44 PM

Pfffff.....it doesn't matter what we say, these people want to rip our heads off and burn them. fuck, at this point, lets just antagonize them for fun, shall we? can't make things worse, right?

hey, watch this....


"Falafel is not delicious."







Posted Image

#6 ryan

ryan

    God of Goldens!

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPip
  • 4891 posts

Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:46 PM

:lol: I've missed stovich. Where ya been?

#7 stovich

stovich

    Newbie

  • Sombie
  • PipPip
  • 407 posts

Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:56 PM

Heh, thanks man. I've missed posting.....I'll quit being such a lazy bastard and make more of an effort. ;)

#8 ryan

ryan

    God of Goldens!

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPip
  • 4891 posts

Posted 16 September 2006 - 01:10 AM

I'm a simple man -- an effort is all that I ask.

#9 Ben

Ben

    Hipster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3224 posts

Posted 16 September 2006 - 03:26 PM

Text of the Vatican Statement
September 16, 2006 10:30 a.m.

Text of Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone's statement, issued Saturday in Italian, about criticism in the Muslim world over Pope Benedict XVI's remarks about Islam and violence. English translation is provided by the Vatican.

Given the reaction in Muslim quarters to certain passages of the Holy Father's address at the University of Regensburg, and the clarifications and explanations already presented through the Director of the Holy See Press Office, I would like to add the following:

The position of the Pope concerning Islam is unequivocally that expressed by the conciliar document Nostra Aetate: "The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting" (no. 3).

The Pope's option in favor of interreligious and intercultural dialogue is equally unequivocal. In his meeting with representatives of Muslim communities in Cologne, Germany, on 20 August 2005, he said that such dialogue between Christians and Muslims "cannot be reduced to an optional extra," adding: "The lessons of the past must help us to avoid repeating the same mistakes. We must seek paths of reconciliation and learn to live with respect for each other's identity."

As for the opinion of the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, which he quoted during his Regensburg talk, the Holy Father did not mean, nor does he mean, to make that opinion his own in any way. He simply used it as a means to undertake -- in an academic context, and as is evident from a complete and attentive reading of the text -- certain reflections on the theme of the relationship between religion and violence in general, and to conclude with a clear and radical rejection of the religious motivation for violence, from whatever side it may come. On this point, it is worth recalling what Benedict XVI himself recently affirmed in his commemorative Message for the 20th anniversary of the Inter-religious Meeting of Prayer for Peace, initiated by his predecessor John Paul II at Assisi in October 1986: " .. demonstrations of violence cannot be attributed to religion as such but to the cultural limitations with which it is lived and develops in time. .. In fact, attestations of the close bond that exists between the relationship with God and the ethics of love are recorded in all great religious traditions."

The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions. Indeed it was he who, before the religious fervor of Muslim believers, warned secularized Western culture to guard against "the contempt for God and the cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom."

In reiterating his respect and esteem for those who profess Islam, he hopes they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words so that, quickly surmounting this present uneasy moment, witness to the "Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men" may be reinforced, and collaboration may intensify "to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom"
No, I'm Alpha Male.

#10 velocity

velocity

    Chanel No. ♪♫

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10081 posts

Posted 16 September 2006 - 03:56 PM

I'm glad to hear that his motives were far from what the inflammatory quote intimated. But jebus, what was he thinking? Making that particular reference, especially with his stated intention of conveying "a clear and radical rejection of the religious motivation for violence" was putting out fire with gasoline. At best, he should've known that citation might be quoted out of context. At worst, he foments jihad. At least he wasn't in the US stumping for Giuliani when he said it.

#11 pong

pong

    Rockist

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9208 posts

Posted 16 September 2006 - 08:10 PM

Why don't Muslims just admit they want to kill us? It's in the Koran. Why do we have tip toe around it? Look, if you are a Muslim scholar, and you think the Koran is the final word of God, you really can't argue with Bin Laden, right? Basically, since Bin Laden offered us a chance to become Islamic (something in their code that he didn't do previously), he now has a green light, more or less sanctioned by Islam, to use nuclear weapons against civilians. (this was on Bill Maher but I already knew about it). Islam preaches that the Muslim world must rise up and destroy the Infidel. This is core teaching of Islam. Correct? If so, say whatever you want but I'll take Christianity and call it a day.

#12 Bhickman

Bhickman

    Rockist

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5085 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:06 AM

Sensible human beings who believe that religion is a crock of shit should come together and destroy all of the religious zealots in the world. But you know why we don't? Because it's not earth shattering enough for us to know that there are loons out there that believe in Gods. We say we'll let you have your fairy tales, just leave us alone with it. But they can never do it. We all have to be convinced that their God is THE God and they won't take "No" for an answer. Fucking assholes. If you really look at it, the one thing that has made the Earth an unbearable place to live in has consistently been religion.
Rock & Roll Ghost Message Board

"No one on the corner has swagga like us"

#13 Rob Gordon

Rob Gordon

    sha la la, man

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8663 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:25 AM

What gets me...correct me if I'm wrong...but have the Muslim/Islam leaders of the world come out at all as a unified group condemning the actions of the so-called few?
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#14 Bhickman

Bhickman

    Rockist

  • Sombie
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5085 posts

Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:43 AM

There hasn't been some big announcement from all of them, but some have made a point of saying that those that wage jihad and kill in the name of Allah are doing a disservice to their religion, that Islam is about peace and unity.
Rock & Roll Ghost Message Board

"No one on the corner has swagga like us"