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Can there ever be a new "Nevermind"?


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#261 Montana

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 02:00 AM



Now moving on, we are talking about what is by definition a HUGE paradigm shift.
Thus, we are talking about large-scale cultural change.


In the UK at least.

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No way.


If they take that long to explain, they weren't as big.

yeah, if you can't do it in one word, such as- oh i don't know: "nevermind".....then you're changing the argument.


Hah, alright, I'll spare you guys my thesis. Probably for the best anyway as I've got a lot on my plate this weekend.



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And any major rock star will be a sex symbol.

Cobain wasn't just good looking, he was VERY good looking....as was Elvis...as was Thriller-era Michael Jackson...


waaa?
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
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#262 Montana

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 02:14 AM

They wouldn't have been able to release their debut in the US if it wasn't for Nirvana.



Eh I think you are giving Nirvana too much credit here. If Radiohead released their debut at the time Nirvana did, it still would have ushered in the "alternative era" and ended cock rock, albeit in a nicer way. It would have been like, " excuse me, I'm a Creep, but could you please unplug your guitars, cut your hair, and stop making metal cheese ballads? I think that's over now" -whereas Nirvana was like " I'm gonna cut you up with a chainsaw and have this freaky old janitor mop up your blood!".

I think the song Creep had the power to do that.
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
- The Felice Brothers

#263 Mitchell

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 02:49 AM

Don't even pretend for a fraction of a second you know more about the way those two records changed the landscape of popular music in the UK then I do. And Capitol wouldn't have signed Radiohead in the US if it wasn't for Nirvana.
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#264 Montana

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 04:35 AM

Don't even pretend for a fraction of a second you know more about the way those two records changed the landscape of popular music in the UK then I do.



Pop culture flashes in the pan. And according to the British press, The Arctic Monkeys have superceeded all of that. Are you comparing those to the impact Nevermind had? Oasis is more famous for their brotherly fights than anything else.



And Capitol wouldn't have signed Radiohead in the US if it wasn't for Nirvana.



Now you are changing your statement. Smooth.
Every Sunday morning I wake up
I see you by your dresser doing your make-up
Fluttering a Chinese fan in a Knoxville fashion
All last night you tossed and turned
Your body was hotter than the night Richmond burned
You say you had a bad nightmare about tractor trailers crashing
- The Felice Brothers

#265 Mitchell

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 04:52 AM

Not changed my statement at all, without Capitol's backing it's unlikely that the album would have got anything other than a minor release like plenty of other bands on Paralphone/EMI in the 1990's. And yet again you revel in your ignorance of the effect that those two albums had on UK release, without even getting into the musically merits of the album s they both represented in a sea change in what music people were buying, and what types of bands record labels were trying to sign. If that doesn't count as a huge paradigm shift, I really don't know waht does.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#266 The Sheck

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 01:33 PM

I'm surprised no one's mentioned this yet, but there's little to no chance of a movement like 'Nevermind' or 'The Chronic' happening again so long as the music Industry circa 2006 is involved. We've all seen it since then...the labels that swoop into a college town, sign up every band available, and try to make them sound like what's popular at the moment. Nothing is able to develop on its own, which is what all the influential albums have in common. It can't be manufactured by some A&R guy. I have serious doubts about the Internet being the great equalizer in terms of the new whatever. All the sites which allow you to have a national or international audience overnight are owned by record labels (i.e. Myspace and Interscope) or major corporations which own record labels. Who's to say that as soon as someone's myspace page hits 300,000 views, the labels won't come a courting? The Internet just makes it possible to have your 15 minutes of fame reduced to 3. I wonder if the reason no one mentions N.W.A. as an 'innovator' was because the record sprang up from almost indie-rock esque backgrounds. Shitty production, released on an indie label, no publicity, no videos, no singles. (Yet it goes double platinum despite all that. Insane.) 'Straight Outta Compton' is a vengeful, angry record, and I really don't think there's been anything like it since. At least nothing with that sort of authenticity. Just like there's been a lot of bands who sound like Nirvana come along, but no one that successfully emulates them. The element of success, or boasting about success is a large part of most rapper's M.O.'s. I think that is what 'The Chronic' will be remembered for, bringing that attitude to the forefront, rather than anything musical it represented. With that in mind, absolutely, the Chronic is just as essential as Nevermind. You can argue all you want about whether or not the gangster rap of today is more minstrel than sincere, just like arguing whether Bush, Everclear, etc. were really grunge, but there's no denying both artists were huge and the odds are slim you'll see anything like that again.

#267 d. dewey

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 03:49 PM

Not to generalize, but when Nevermind came out it was a culturally significant/altering album to a specific demographic. White middle-class males. Were there exceptions? Of course. Sure, your sister liked the album and maybe even your black best friend, but truth be told Nevermind is really only significant to one demographic, a demographic that the majority of SOMB consists of and in reality a demographic that at that time and currently has a cultural hegemony. Which leads us to view our view as superior. And of course mentioning The Chronic to a bunch of white kids wonít mean shit compared to Nevermind. But try that same experiment with a bunch of black kids. Iíd bet a sizable amount that The Chronic would win. And thatís just one other demographic. What about so called ďteeny-boppers?Ē Hit Me Baby One More Time? Itís not hard to believe that that album is much more culturally significant to teenaged girls than Nevermind is.


Cobain was already dead by the time Spears turned up, and even if they did exist simultaneously, Brit's audience would probably be a few years younger than Nirvana's.

#268 stphone

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 04:45 PM

Not sure what Cobain's death has to do with Britney's influence on teenage girls. Sure, she came after Cobain, afterall we are talking about albums that came post Nevermind. Also, what does the age of Britney's audience have to do with anything? Does Britney's (presumably) younger audience somehow invalidate her?

#269 d. dewey

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 10:08 PM

Not sure what Cobain's death has to do with Britney's influence on teenage girls.


Well, it was you who brought up the "teenyboppers" (your word), so I was just riffing on it.

Sure, she came after Cobain, afterall we are talking about albums that came post Nevermind.


Yeah, but maybe I misunderstood; that other album you mentioned, The Chronic, came out post-Nevermind, but pre-Cobain dying. I thought you were comparing artists from that 1991-94 timeline (which was before Britney). Maybe if you'd-a said somebody from that era like Color Me Badd or Joey Lawrence, it woulda been more appropriate? :lol: But, I still see your point.

Also, what does the age of Britney's audience have to do with anything? Does Britney's (presumably) younger audience somehow invalidate her?


Nope, I'm just saying that her audience would be likely be separate from Nirvana's.

Of the three acts you mentioned (Britney, Nirvana, and Dr. Dre), they are so different that you could probably see two of these acts in the same CD collection but not all three.

#270 Eskimo kisses

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 06:22 AM

Agree to an extent on DM, Mitchell. I can see how that paved the way for other bands to sell a shitload of records. Not seeing it at all with the Strokes thing, though. I wouldn't really credit the whole Libertines/Razorlight thing to them other than in jacket fashion.
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#271 petras

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 09:53 AM

I'm surprised no one's mentioned this yet, but there's little to no chance of a movement like 'Nevermind' or 'The Chronic' happening again so long as the music Industry circa 2006 is involved. We've all seen it since then...the labels that swoop into a college town, sign up every band available, and try to make them sound like what's popular at the moment. Nothing is able to develop on its own, which is what all the influential albums have in common. It can't be manufactured by some A&R guy.


I kinda agree with you here....but on the other hand albums like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot were still able to come out within the current music industry system granted it went through hell to get there but it did get released. Before people start giving me the sarcastic responses i'm NOT claiming wilco is/was the next nirvana i'm just saying if that album can get released then there's still a chance that something new could come out of the industry.
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#272 Mitchell

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 10:26 AM

Agree to an extent on DM, Mitchell. I can see how that paved the way for other bands to sell a shitload of records.

Not seeing it at all with the Strokes thing, though. I wouldn't really credit the whole Libertines/Razorlight thing to them other than in jacket fashion.


Geoff Travis only signed the Libs on the basis of the success of Is This It in the UK, Arctic Monkeys were orginally a covers band who did many Strokes' covers. I did right a long piece on here abou thow The Strokes arrival sent the majors and the indies looking for the next Stroke (and to a lesser extent White Stripes) and the buyying habits of a geneartion of music fans shifted away ffrom R&B compilations to rock/indie albums (and even compilations.)

You need only compare the sales figures of Pure Garage, Kiss Compilations, Ibiza stuff before and after 2001 to see the impact it made.
Nice bowl of Crunchy Nut you got here, pretty expensive as I recall.

#273 pong

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 11:12 AM

NO

#274 petras

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 11:14 AM

NO


Profound, i find myself in awe by the genius of your argument.
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#275 Eskimo kisses

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 11:27 AM


Agree to an extent on DM, Mitchell. I can see how that paved the way for other bands to sell a shitload of records.

Not seeing it at all with the Strokes thing, though. I wouldn't really credit the whole Libertines/Razorlight thing to them other than in jacket fashion.


Geoff Travis only signed the Libs on the basis of the success of Is This It in the UK, Arctic Monkeys were orginally a covers band who did many Strokes' covers. I did right a long piece on here abou thow The Strokes arrival sent the majors and the indies looking for the next Stroke (and to a lesser extent White Stripes) and the buyying habits of a geneartion of music fans shifted away ffrom R&B compilations to rock/indie albums (and even compilations.)

You need only compare the sales figures of Pure Garage, Kiss Compilations, Ibiza stuff before and after 2001 to see the impact it made.


Didn't know the Libs only got signed off the back of the strokes.

I would say that even if that's the case all it's done is move us back a few years. The musical landscape in the UK isn't really that much different pre and post trance explosion except for rap doing better.


Also, Monkeys and Libs aside, the bands selling shitloads of records these days seem more like the natural progression from Travis and Stereophonics rather than the Strokes.
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#276 Jigga

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 12:26 PM

I wonder how great Nirvana would be if Kurt Cobain was still alive. That album had 3 great songs I'll say that but the rest is just noise. I dont think it could happen again. When Nirvana came a lot of stoner kids found a leader. Kids were looking for someone. THey were directionless. Kurt saved them. Who can the kids have that kind of faith in today? Maybe JAck White he seems to be the one people talk about as a modern day great but he dont seem to care about the kids he seems a bit of a loner who wants to live in the south because all his heroes are from there. To be honest, what did Nevermind do when you say could it happen again? Do you mean sales or hero worship or creating a new scene? To be honest what about that houston screw music, thats a nirvana moment.