1095 replies to this topic

[Sickpup]

I normally don't post news items, but this seemed too ridiculous to pass up. Open letter from the man himself. He has now dumped his management, apparently. And, oh yeah, says the album will be out on March 6, 2007. ------------------ Guns N’ Roses regrets to announce that the following concert tour dates have been canceled: January 10: Sacramento January 11: Bakersfield January 13: Reno January 16: San Diego Because of the scheduling of these particular shows, valuable time needed by the band and record company for the proper setup and release of the album “Chinese Democracy” would have been lost. Rather than delay the album yet again, all involved have decided to remove these shows from GN’R’s schedule. We hope our fans understand and we apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused. Tickets may be refunded at point of purchase. To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare. Unfortunately, this time it has been played out for over a decade in real life. The true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties are much more complicated than any negative speculation that the media or otherwise has managed to hit upon. For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn’t jeopardize the band or the album. It’s easy for people to point out how others have handled similar situations or how they would have dealt with these issues themselves if they encountered them in their own lives. But again, without full knowledge of the various dynamics and circumstances involved, these types of comments or commentary are just uninformed, disassociated, generally useless -- and often hindering --speculation. When I agreed to do our recent North American tour, I did it with the understanding that my manager, Merck Mercuriadis, and I were in full agreement regarding our strategy and touring plans and, most important, that any and all things needed to release the album by Dec. 26 at the latest were in place. Unfortunately, it turned out that this was not the case, and I regret to say that the album will not be released by the end of the year. Although many things went extremely well and were very exciting, there were, in our opinion, unnecessary and avoidable complications on our tour having to do with the tour routing, scheduling and album and video plans that wreaked havoc on all involved. This was compounded by an overall sense of a lack of respect by management for the band and crew and each individual's particular expertise that has resulted, unfortunately, in the end of both Guns’ and my managerial involvement with Merck Mercuriadis. In regard to a release date for the album itself, certain minor - aand I do mean minor -- additions, as well as contract negotiations, need to be completed. Barring any unforeseen complications, these things have now been adequately scheduled. The band and I, along with our record company, feel that this record deserves the proper setup and promotion, not the “13 Tuesdays left” and “It may just appear in your record store” approach offered by management. We believe this strategy may have been used as a tool by management to sell this latest tour to the various promoters, and if this was the case, this was obviously unfair to them. The stress of dealing with this situation has been considerable for everyone, including the band, but more important, in our opinion, it was something utterly insane to do to our fans. You have our apologies, and please know we have been laboring over this with management for the entire North American tour. It takes approximately eight weeks for an album to hit the shelves once it has been turned in to the record company. For whatever reasons, it appears that it may have been mistakenly inferred by management that this time period could be condensed to three weeks. With that being said, this is not a promise, a lie or a guarantee, but we do wish to announce a tentative release date of March 6. This is the first time we have done this publicly for this album. Others have made up all the other dates for their own reasons. We would like to assure the fans that everything in our power will be done to meet this date. Once it is finalized and official, you will be notified. If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date, and the album will be released as shortly thereafter as is possible. We thank you for your patience. In the end, it’s just an album, but it’s one that I, the band, our record company and all involved believe and feel is a true Guns N’ Roses album. Ultimately the public will decide, and regardless of the outcome, our hearts, lives and our passion has been put into this project every step of the way. If for no other reason, we feel those elements alone merit your consideration. We do hope you can hold on just a bit longer, and if not, please take a break and we’ll be more than glad -- if you so choose -- to see you again later. Once again, we offer our sincere apologies and our deepest thanks. Guns N’ Roses also would like to thank all the fans who attended the 70 concerts in 21 countries for their support in 2006. All the best to each and every one of you over this holiday season, thank you and God bless. Sincerely, Axl Rose

[Campaigner]

Is there any way at all that this album isn't going to be the biggest disappointment of all time? Or do not enough people care for there to be any disappointment?

Either way, it's going to be the second coming of the Stone Roses 'Second Coming' and leave people sitting there saying "we waited all this time for this?" Damn...

PS: Before anyone gets up in arms, 'Second Coming' in hindsight isn't that bad an album, I agree, but it's certainly not up to the stuff that came before it.

[Ted Falconi]

Is there any way at all that this album isn't going to be the biggest disappointment of all time? Or do not enough people care for there to be any disappointment?

Just about everyone who 'cares' expects far beyond the worst, actually.
It only has to be kinda good to grossly exceed most expectations.

[Campaigner]

Just about everyone who 'cares' expects far beyond the worst, actually.
It only has to be kinda good to grossly exceed most expectations.

Hopefully there's a 'Plan 9 From Outer Space' atrociousness to it. So bad it's a classic.

[Sickpup]

Is there any way at all that this album isn't going to be the biggest disappointment of all time?

i really fail to understand what people base this widely-held opinion on.

i suppose you could say that the demos weren't up to par, but generally speaking, most of the post-Illusions songs I've heard have been quite good -- some even great.

a bad album can take 1 year or 10 years to make. same goes for a good album. i think most people who say it's going to be the biggest disappointment of all time believe there's some relationship between time elapsed and product quality -- as if a mediocre album can be worse than mediocre simply because it took 10 years to make. my expectations are neither raised or lowered based on the amount of time that has passed. the only thing that has affected my expectations are the new songs themselves.

[throughsilver]

I love Axl Rose.

Does anyone have a link to that 'story of Chinese Democracy' article from about a year back? It'd rule to read that again.

Is there any way at all that this album isn't going to be the biggest disappointment of all time? Or do not enough people care for there to be any disappointment?

Either way, it's going to be the second coming of the Stone Roses 'Second Coming' and leave people sitting there saying "we waited all this time for this?" Damn...

After Illusions and Spaghetti incident, this'll probably be manna from heaven.

[Sickpup]

the plot thickens. this from the axed manager: An Open Letter To Guns N' Roses Fans From Merck Mercuriadis Along with all of the other Guns N' Roses fans around the world I read "An Open Letter To The Fans From Axl" this evening with much interest. About half way through it occurred to me that I had read much of this before. In fact, I had written the blueprint for it in an email for Axl's attention two days ago which I have copied below. The reality is all of this year's touring was planned and agreed between Axl and myself, with a view to the album being in the stores before the 31st of December '06. This was confirmed by Axl in numerous interviews - most famously at the MTV Video Music Awards. We planned the tour in February, just after Axl's birthday and we were supposed to finish the album in May, before it started. We sent our engineers to New York, where we all waited, for over a month, for the muse to come but she never arrived. We then scheduled sessions in London in August and had our engineers meet us there at the end of the English tour. August came and went and once again the muse did not show. We postponed our proposed radio date of Labour Day for the first single and we came back to LA and tried to finish before the San Francisco, Las Vegas and Los Angeles shows but yet again she eluded us. Axl then asked me to postpone the North American tour which was due to start on 24th of September by a month and finally, early in that period after the euphoria of Inland Invasion, Axl made a break through and got two or three very productive days under his belt. At this point we were very excited as Axl's feeling was that we had two or three days of work left to tidy things up and we still had three weeks before the tour started, so we were in good shape. Unfortunately the muse disappeared just as fast as she came and the tour started with no single at radio to support it and the album still needing two or three days of work. Despite this, it was a break through period as Robin, Bumblefoot and Frank had all made important contributions to the album that made it even stronger. By the way none of the above is meant as a criticism of Axl. It is the reality of trying to create something special under incredible pressure from the public - that wants and DEMANDS the record - and the record industry - that NEEDS it. The creative process is not something you can dictate and Axl is a true artist. At this time I seriously considered postponing the start of the tour, again, as the album was of paramount importance but the reality was that our historic track record left us with very little good will with you, the fans, and we needed the money to be able to complete the album and keep the band alive. We scheduled sessions in New York and once again sent the engineers there for the first two weeks of November while the tour was based there - but the hectic touring schedule meant nothing got done. The record company refused to conclude the renegotiation until we were ready to hand over the finished album and refused to prepare a marketing campaign or commission video treatments until they had it in their hands. This is still their position as of this week. At this point despite the success of many of the dates on the tour the pressure on all of us became unbearable. While some of Axl's letter is disappointing - As John Lennon once asked Paul McCartney "How Do You Sleep?" - until you have walked a mile in his shoes you cannot begin to comprehend the pressure he is under. I know I sleep well at night in the knowledge that when Chinese Democracy hits the streets in March that it is in large part down to my efforts over the last almost 5 years. I found the money and the motivation to keep Axl and the band alive and get the record made when everyone else had given up and walked away. We worked as a team united to make Chinese Democracy a reality. In the end the album will speak for itself but our relationship could not survive the pressure. I have no regrets. I believe Chinese Democracy is one of the best albums ever made, Axl Rose is one of the greatest vocalists and front men and the new Guns N' Roses (which kicks the shit out of the old) is one of the greatest bands. What we accomplished in 2006 only hints at what is to come. I believe in Axl Rose. I am the artist's manager and it is my responsibility and job to take the heat. I promise you Chinese Democracy is worth it and you should keep the faith. I will walk away knowing I have done my best and that next year will see Axl recognized not only as a great singer and rock icon but as one of the greatest artists of all time. Merry Christmas and all the best to you for 2007! Merck Mercuriadis PS I apologize to all the fans irked by my facetious comments regarding the release date to Rolling Stone magazine. They were meant to poke fun at a magazine that had announced a definitive release date, causing us all lots of grief, when none had been set. Unfortunately many of you took them to heart and for that I am sorry. Begin forwarded message: From: Merck Mercuriadis Date: 12 December 2006 14:11:02 GMT-08:00 Subject: Album Press Release Regardless of the issues that exist between Axl and myself I believe it is important for an announcement on the album to be put out this week and at the same time cover the cancellation of the 5 shows in January. Further to this I have thought about the album release date taking into account the issues between Axl and myself and my view is that the album should be set for release on the 20th of March rather than the 6th of February. March 20th is the first day of Spring and a positive day. This allows for three months to set it up properly around the world without unmanageable pressure and for it to be well imbedded in the market place before the summer lull sets in. It also allows for the deal to be done with the label and any change in Management etc which may be made to be made as well as detailed meetings on the touring which on this basis would start in Dubai just before the album's release. The note will be most effective if it comes from Axl as he will then be seen as the good guy who is giving people the information they want. Having said that it could come from either Howard or myself or both of us. I have presented two options the first not giving a release date and the second one stating it. The message would be posted as the lead story on gunsnroses.com and we would then point all of the media there. I would appreciate it if you would all let me know your thoughts on all of this keeping in mind that this is a work in progress. Option 1 Merry Christmas To You All We are into the last week of the tour and Christmas is almost here so I wanted to take the time not only to wish you Merry Christmas but to also explain why CHINESE DEMOCRACY is not under your tree or in the stores as we wanted it would be. We read the papers and we know you want - demand! - news. We have been in the final stages of renegotiating our deal with our record label and it has been a long slow process - not unlike making the record! The discussion started over a year ago but did not become serious until they started hearing the mixes. Everyone involved has worked hard to get the deal completed so we could get the record out this month but a few weeks ago it became obvious that was not going to happen. We then held out as we wanted to at least be able to give you the release date before Christmas but unfortunately we are still not there yet. This is not meant to spark a hate campaign on the label. This is an unusual and complicated situation as we have worked a long time on this album and it is important to us to make sure that everything including the deal is right. At the same time it is a business that has to work for everyone involved. We have all - you included - waited a long time for this and this is not the time to compromise. The first news you will hear from us in 2007 will be to announce the album's release date. Without the album out it does not make sense to do the 5 shows we have scheduled for January in isolation so they are being cancelled and we will focus on getting the album out. Until that time we want to thank you for all of your support in 2006 and wish you all the best for the holidays and a happy new year. W. Axl Rose Option 2 Merry Christmas To You All We are into the last week of the tour and Christmas is almost here so I wanted to take the time not only to wish you Merry Christmas but to also explain why CHINESE DEMOCRACY is not under your tree or in the stores as we wanted it to be. We read the papers and we know you want - demand! - news. We have been in the final stages of renegotiating our deal with our record label and it has been a long slow process - not unlike making the record! The discussion started over a year ago but did not become serious until they started hearing the mixes. Everyone involved has worked hard to get the deal completed so we could get the record out this month but a few weeks ago it became obvious that was not going to happen. We have all - you included - waited a long time for this and this was not the time to compromise. We then held out on making an announcement as we wanted to at least be able to give you the release date before Christmas so here it is. Chinese Democracy will be released on the 20th of March in the US and Canada - the first day of Spring and a time for new beginnings! - and on the 19th of March everywhere else in the world. Without the album out it does not make sense to do the 5 shows we have scheduled for January in isolation so they are being cancelled and we will focus on getting the album out. We want to thank you for all of your support in 2006 and wish you all the best for the holidays and a happy new year. We look forward to seeing you in 2007! W. Axl Rose

[themeparkexperience]

It's not like Chinese Democracy is some great lost, Smile-like album. Who's really sincerely looking forward to this record anyway?

[nobodies]

I'll admit it: I'm pretty curious to hear this thing and will probably buy it upon its release. At worst, it'll kind of be like watching a train wreck. Anyway, predictions of how people will react are kind of pointless; but I think the public will mostly be apathetic. On the other hand, if the album is good GNR might get re-embraced ala Green Day/American Idiot. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Bhickman]

So I go to interview Sebastian Bach and I'm dealing with his tour manager, who is part of Sanctuary's team, right? Sebastian and he and the manager start talking about what's coming up and the guy just throws in that after such and such show(s) he's done (before they headed to Canada) with the tour, that Sanctuary was calling him home (or something like that). I gather that it was around that week when things must have gone south with Sanctuary and Axl. Didn't put much thought into that exchange until reading this thread.

[pong]

"In the end, it’s just an album, but it’s one that I, the band, our record company and all involved believe and feel is a true Guns N’ Roses album. Ultimately the public will decide, " HA. He'll be lucky if he tops K Fed's album sales and this is not a GNR album at all.

[throughsilver]

It's not like Chinese Democracy is some great lost, Smile-like album.

Smile was great?

[Montana]

It will never be a Guns N' Roses record without Slash.

[solace]

It will never be a Guns N' Roses record without Slash.

wholeheartedly agree.

maybe Axl was GNR for some people, but for me he was just a part of what made them great, Slash was much bigger of a part for me.

[Dead Billy]

It will never be a Guns N' Roses record without Slash.

wholeheartedly agree.

maybe Axl was GNR for some people, but for me he was just a part of what made them great, Slash was much bigger of a part for me.

Izzy was their best songwriter and I've always felt that Steven Adler's contribution to the whole enterprise was vastly underrated. Matt Sorum was the A-Rod of Guns N' Roses, technically more talented than Adler, yup. A good idea and a good fit for the band, nope.

[solace]

right, i wasn't even getting into Izzy or Duff's contributions, they also played a good part of why the original lineup was so great.

[throughsilver]

It will never be a Guns N' Roses record without Slash.

wholeheartedly agree.

maybe Axl was GNR for some people, but for me he was just a part of what made them great, Slash was much bigger of a part for me.

Izzy was their best songwriter

Precisely. Slash is a great guitarist, but he adds little, if anything, to the songwriting. He hasn't played lead on a truly great album since 1987. Velvet Revolver and Snakepit are hardly rock classics.

Chinese Demo, whether good or bad, will be a valid Gn'R album.

[Diesel]

While I can't say that I've been anxiously awaiting this album (cause, really, all the release dates/push backs, etc. have really become a gigantic joke), I will certainly buy it and give it a fair hearing.

I liked what I heard from the demos and the other "new" songs played on the tour, for the most part. I'm sure it won't be "greatest album ever" or even "greatest GNR album ever," but I doubt it'll be a total disaster, either. My hopes aren't high, but at this point, if it tops Illusion I and II and The Spaghetti Incident, which admittedly isn't difficult, it'll be just fine. Based on what I've heard, that will likely be the case.

Frankly, though, Axl's dug his own grave with this album. It could be completely awesome and no one's really gonna give a crap, after being jerked around for so long.

Still...that release date works for me. Day before my birthday. One present idea already knocked out.

[Sickpup]

based on the subsequent Merck letter, I'm highly suspicious of that stated release date. looks more like throwing the fans a bone so axl can cover his ass for cancelling additional shows. notice he doesn't firmly commit to the date. i'd expect more of the same until official word from a publicist.

[pong]

Still...that release date works for me. Day before my birthday.

2010?