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Jigga
When I heard only 5% of you have passports, I was shocked, that means, that like, whats 5% of 300 million, 15 million. How many of that 15 million have money, about 14 milion probably broke and living off the state, so that leaves about 1 million that actually travel abrioad. That 1 million is probably going to Canada or Cancun on Spring break or something. Is America the most uncultured country on the planet?

HewlettsDaughter
pretty much, yeah, we are uncultured and content with ourselves.

its even more sad when i look at my school's study abroad program. here, you can study abroad for a whole semester for basically a grand more than normal tutition. what the real killer is is that on average, per semester, only two students on average utilize and take advantage of this. seriously i wish i knew about it sooner because i would have been in like europe or something right about now.
kalmia
QUOTE(Jigga @ Mar 1 2006, 02:23 AM) [snapback]32073[/snapback]

When I heard only 5% of you have passports, I was shocked, that means, that like, whats 5% of 300 million, 15 million. How many of that 15 million have money, about 14 milion probably broke and living off the state, so that leaves about 1 million that actually travel abrioad. That 1 million is probably going to Canada or Cancun on Spring break or something. Is America the most uncultured country on the planet?



Are passports required to visit Canada or Mexico?
SpacemanSpiff
America's probably the only place in the world where you don't have to leave to find yourself some culture. The immigrants who come here, some of them at least, make an effort to instill their values and customs here in our country. Chicago is a great example of this.

CopyrightQ
Spiff raises a key point for Chicagoans. Cultural diversity is not difficult to find if you know where to look.

It's not easy to acquire cultural awareness merely by travelling. Travelling is expensive, and with a one-shot deal, you end up doing touristy stuff, which really doesn't lead to "understanding" unless you can (i) speak the language and (ii) research and investigate, including seeking out people willing to discuss things with you.

I wouldn't be surprised if Americans probably travel more than any other country's citizens, due to the cost/affluence/available transportation. Based on past travel threads on this board, it seems to be a relatively well-travelled group.

Hewlett's, I was very glad to have stumbled upon that travel-abroad info just barely in the nick of time sophomore year. I managed to become one of the *chosen few*, and was ever so grateful for the opportunity. My boyfriend at the time took his to Columbia when I headed to Europe. Oh man, there was just no stopping him (p0thead). Surprisingly, he's still alive (but severely shaky, reports a mutual acquaintance)
Jigga
i think you have to go to a country to experience the real culture, if you experience it from immigrants its not the same they water their shit down to me.
NumberTenOx
QUOTE(Jigga @ Mar 1 2006, 05:48 AM) [snapback]32103[/snapback]

i think you have to go to a country to experience the real culture, if you experience it from immigrants its not the same they water their shit down to me.

I'm sure travelling from your parents' home in Wheaton to your gramma's house in Frankfurt is a hugely widening experience, culturally speaking.
Uncle Remus
Yeah, it's just really fucking cheap for us all to hop on a goddamn plane and fly to another country/continent.
avec



You goddamn euros are always on holiday...you get more time off than we do, it's cheaper for you to explore your countries, it's a no brainer that you guys travel more.

But I assume that more americans visit Europe than vice versa.
Hips
yeah we just can't hop a train and be in belgium in a few hours.

plus...where is Europe's biggest ball of twine?
Uncle Remus
face it, Europeans travelling all over Europe = Americans travelling all over America. It's the same thing, just with no border restrictions (or not, I'm ignorant on how things work in each country of Europe admittedly).

Jigga, give me a few grand and I'll gladly visit your "home country"
Hips
QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 08:36 AM) [snapback]32181[/snapback]


Jigga, give me a few grand and I'll gladly visit your "home country"

i'm sure you've already been to Wheeling.
Uncle Remus
Of course! You should know I lived there! You were at the old apartment.
Hips
QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 08:48 AM) [snapback]32191[/snapback]

Of course! You should know I lived there! You were at the old apartment.

oh yeah...right. i get all those places mixed up. my bad
Freddie Freelance
The US is the size of Western Europe plus a good bit of Eastern Europe, too. We have more natural wonders, a wider climate range (I could surf the Dawn Patrol & ski in the afternoon here in SoCal), world class museums, orchestras & theater, and better Chinese food.

I don't think immigrants water their culture down to themselves, just to those outside of their culture. I've been in Dim Sum houses in San Gabriel where I was one of 3 people in the place who spoke English (and I brought one of the other two with me), and you can believe there was no watering down of the culture in there. Have you ever been in an Ethiopian or Eritrean restaurant? They don't often cater to tourists, and they definitely don't water down their culture. Yes, you can get some mean pasta dishes in Eritrean places, but that's because they were invaded by the Italians before WW II, not beacuse they're catering to anyone outside of the culture.

How many people here have their Passport? I do (of couse I've micowaved it to ensure that any RFID chips're dead, but that's just me).
Uncle Remus
RFID chips?
Freddie Freelance
QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 07:09 AM) [snapback]32210[/snapback]

RFID chips?

From Wikipedia:
QUOTE
Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) is an automatic identification method, relying on storing and remotely retrieving data using devices called RFID tags or transponders. An RFID tag is a small object that can be attached to or incorporated into a product, animal, or person. RFID tags contain silicon chips and antennas to enable them to receive and respond to radio-frequency queries from an RFID transceiver. Passive tags require no internal power source, whereas active tags require a power source.

And from Washington Technology:
QUOTE
State Department e-passport pilot under way
By Wilson P. Dizard III
Contributing Staff Writer


The State Department started pilot production of electronic passports earlier this month and plans to roll out e-passports for the general public this summer, officials said.

The senior official in charge of the project also said that technical issues raised recently about e-passport security would not prevent the general distribution of the documents.

Frank Moss, deputy assistant secretary of State for consular affairs, said in an interview this morning that the department is using e-passport technology provided by Infineon Technologies North America Corp. of San Jose, Calif.

Moss said Infineon’s components for the e-passport have been approved by National Institute of Standards and Technology testing. The company provides contactless chip radio-frequency identification device technology that stores biographical data in machine readable form.

Infineon’s chip and a small antenna are embedded in the passport cover, which also includes a metal shield to prevent eavesdropping on data flowing from the passport to the reading machine.

Three other companies—Axalto Inc. of Austin, Texas; On Track Innovations Ltd of Ft. Lee, N.J.; and ASK of Sophia Antipolis, France—also have e-passport chips that NIST is testing.

"It is premature to say whether all of those will make it through the NIST tests," Moss said, adding that the chips must pass the tests before State would buy them.

Digital passports produced by the federal government comply with a standard forged by the International Civil Aviation Organization, as do all e-passports deployed or under development worldwide. In recent weeks, that standard has come under questioning from a Dutch RFID testing laboratory and a domestic technology analyst.

In recent weeks, a Dutch RFID testing laboratory, Riscure BV of Delft, has issued a statement that it has been able to crack the encryption of the Dutch e-passport using a PC in two hours. According to RFID specialist Harko Robroch of the Dutch laboratory, "An attacker intercepting the contactless communication between the passport and the border control system can get access to the personal information held on the chip inside the new passport."

Robroch stated that sequential relationships between the Dutch passport numbering scheme and the key used to encrypt personal information sent from the passport to the reader device reduced the number of possible encryption methods for the personal data.

He urged Dutch authorities to improve the security of their passport encryption.

A second criticism of the State passport technology came from Joseph Anlage, president and chief executive officer of ALDC, which reportedly is a startup company involved in laser technology. Anlage issued a statement asserting that State’s technology for storing facial images on passport chips would not provide reliable data.

Moss rejected both lines of attack on the technology that State has adopted. He said that the U.S. passport has more layers of security than the Dutch document. They include a metal shield to help protect against interception of data transmitted between the passport and the reading device. In addition, State has adopted Basic Access Control, a means of securing the data transmission between the passport and reader and "random uniqueness," which is a more secure encryption key than the Dutch passport.

Taken together, the State Department methods provide "security in depth," Moss said.

Additional questions about the security of the ICAO standard have been raised by federal officials, who noted that a technical committee of the organization has been meeting to plug possible security loopholes in the standard.

Moss acknowledged that an ICAO technical committee recently met in Rome to consider strengthening the security of the encryption key used to secure data flowing from the passport to the reading device. The committee, reviewing a technology known as "entropy," is considering lengthening the key by including alphanumeric data from the second line of the machine readable zone of each passport as well as the data from the first line, which is already included.

Moss said the questions that have been raised about the security of the passports "do not represent a fundamental problem that must be corrected [before the documents can be widely distributed]."

Wilson P. Dizard III is a staff writer for Washington Technology’s sister publication, Government Computer News.
Uncle Remus
So they're actually doing this or is this just paranoia on your part?
NumberTenOx
QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 09:22 AM) [snapback]32226[/snapback]

So they're actually doing this or is this just paranoia on your part?

Stealing identities is a fairly serious issue. There's no need to slag Freddie.
Uncle Remus
QUOTE(NumberTenOx @ Mar 1 2006, 09:24 AM) [snapback]32227[/snapback]

Stealing identities is a fairly serious issue. There's no need to slag Freddie.




What?

I'm not slagging him, just saying that there wasn't anything in his post to say that this is going on.
Freddie Freelance
QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 07:22 AM) [snapback]32226[/snapback]

So they're actually doing this or is this just paranoia on your part?

Both. They're really doing this, but they're promising that their chips can't be read further away than 10 centimeters (4 inches), that the info won't expose you to identity theft, and that they'll allow good crypto into an object designed to go overseas (where it's illegal to take good crypto).

QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 07:27 AM) [snapback]32232[/snapback]

What?

I'm not slagging him, just saying that there wasn't anything in his post to say that this is going on.

Don't worry, I didn't take it that way.
Mitchell
Yeah at the end of the day I could be in Paris within 3 and a half hours of leaving my house. Are some Americans so insular that they won't even leave the state they are born in? Yes. Do lots of Americans want to travel abroad but don't have the time or the money? Yes.

Are Europeans benefitting from a massive drop in the cost of travelling inside Europe (also helped by the slackening of border control for EU citizens) and worldwide. Yes. 30 years ago going on a plane was a thing only rich people did. Now I could get a flight to nearly any capital city in Europe for under $20.

How far away are the Carribean islands from the US? I've done the 10 hour flight to those on 4 occasions (and visted the US 5 times) an all inclusive holiday to the Carribean islands is as cheap as a holiday to Spain from the UK if you know where to look.
tweed
QUOTE(kalmia @ Mar 1 2006, 02:45 AM) [snapback]32082[/snapback]

Are passports required to visit Canada or Mexico?


Effective this year, yes. You used to be able to use a birth certificate and photo ID.

I agree that the size/diversity of the US, and relative scarcity of vacation time contribute to fewer American's travelling abroad, but I do think there's more at play. . . .

American's are very ecocentric in all facets of life -- think of politics, news, sports, etc. I think travel is just an extension of that. Yeah, we can see mountains and oceans in the US, but what about the history that you get in the other continents? Some culture can't be transported by immigrants, but not many of us are interwested enough to try and go experience it.

I should admit that the farthest I've ever travelled is Mexico, so I'm in no way wordly. Actually in the process of applying for my first passport so I can get to Ireland this summer.

norton
I am always surprised at how little some people travel period -- domestically or abroad. I work with people that take one real trip every four or five years. Man, I try to take a couple trips each year.

That said, I've only been to Europe once, and that was on business. My wife and I are planning to go to Italy this Summer, and hopefully we'll be visiting different European countries more now that our kids are older. Part of this has been intentional. We've taken the kids to Mexico many times for Spring break, as well as the Bahamas and Florida (when they were little). We've also taken them all over the U.S. We've been holding back on European cities to use them as a sort of bribe to keep the kids interested in our family trips as they get older. Next year will be the test. Our son will be off at school. Will a trip to the Mediterranean be enticement enough for him to come along? I expect so.

On the other side of the coin, I also know some people who have traveled around the world, but have seen very little of the U.S. They talk about all the great European cities or the beauty of the Alps, but when you ask them if they've been to the Grand Canyon or Utah or Wyoming or Maine or a hundred other places, they look at you like you're kidding. I've had Europeans ask me why Americans would bother to leave the country -- that they would have to travel the world to see the diversity we have within our own borders.
Jigga
i'm going to italy this summer we can meet up norton.
NumberTenOx
Norton is now the official Lucky Bastard of the US.
norton
QUOTE(Jigga @ Mar 1 2006, 01:44 PM) [snapback]32436[/snapback]

i'm going to italy this summer we can meet up norton.

Cool, I'll meet you at customs. I'll be wearing my Bush/Cheney '04 t-shirt!
Uncle Remus
oh Norton...don't take the kids to romantic Italy!
norton
QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 03:27 PM) [snapback]32590[/snapback]

oh Norton...don't take the kids to romantic Italy!

Nope, we're not gonna. We're meeting my wife's sister and brother-in-law over there. Going to be taking a 4-day biking/cooking/wine tour through Tuscany, and then spending a few days in Florence.
Uncle Remus
good man. talk about a buzzkill.
kalmia
QUOTE(Jigga @ Mar 1 2006, 05:48 AM) [snapback]32103[/snapback]

i think you have to go to a country to experience the real culture, if you experience it from immigrants its not the same they water their shit down to me.



Kinda like your half-black ass did?

QUOTE(Freddie Freelance @ Mar 1 2006, 09:02 AM) [snapback]32204[/snapback]

The US is the size of Western Europe plus a good bit of Eastern Europe, too. We have more natural wonders, a wider climate range (I could surf the Dawn Patrol & ski in the afternoon here in SoCal), world class museums, orchestras & theater, and better Chinese food.

I don't think immigrants water their culture down to themselves, just to those outside of their culture. I've been in Dim Sum houses in San Gabriel where I was one of 3 people in the place who spoke English (and I brought one of the other two with me), and you can believe there was no watering down of the culture in there. Have you ever been in an Ethiopian or Eritrean restaurant? They don't often cater to tourists, and they definitely don't water down their culture. Yes, you can get some mean pasta dishes in Eritrean places, but that's because they were invaded by the Italians before WW II, not beacuse they're catering to anyone outside of the culture.

How many people here have their Passport? I do (of couse I've micowaved it to ensure that any RFID chips're dead, but that's just me).



should I microwave my driver's licence, just in case?

QUOTE(Gareth Keenan Invetigates @ Mar 1 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]32333[/snapback]

Yeah at the end of the day I could be in Paris within 3 and a half hours of leaving my house. Are some Americans so insular that they won't even leave the state they are born in? Yes. Do lots of Americans want to travel abroad but don't have the time or the money? Yes.

Are Europeans benefitting from a massive drop in the cost of travelling inside Europe (also helped by the slackening of border control for EU citizens) and worldwide. Yes. 30 years ago going on a plane was a thing only rich people did. Now I could get a flight to nearly any capital city in Europe for under $20.

How far away are the Carribean islands from the US? I've done the 10 hour flight to those on 4 occasions (and visted the US 5 times) an all inclusive holiday to the Carribean islands is as cheap as a holiday to Spain from the UK if you know where to look.



QUOTE(tweed @ Mar 1 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]32361[/snapback]

Effective this year, yes. You used to be able to use a birth certificate and photo ID.

I agree that the size/diversity of the US, and relative scarcity of vacation time contribute to fewer American's travelling abroad, but I do think there's more at play. . . .

American's are very ecocentric in all facets of life -- think of politics, news, sports, etc. I think travel is just an extension of that. Yeah, we can see mountains and oceans in the US, but what about the history that you get in the other continents? Some culture can't be transported by immigrants, but not many of us are interwested enough to try and go experience it.

I should admit that the farthest I've ever travelled is Mexico, so I'm in no way wordly. Actually in the process of applying for my first passport so I can get to Ireland this summer.


so the borders in Europe are being relaxed, and they are being tightened in North America.
avec


I spent a couple months in Europe...it can be cheap if you know how to live on your means. We camped when we could and slept in Hostel's. It was fun and if you're in college I suggest you do it if you can afford to, get it out of your system. Cuz when the time comes and you have to get a day job, vacation time in America is slim pickings. I get 5 days a year at my job, leaving me little time for unwinding. The next place I visit will be in America. Still haven't seen the Canyon, or the desert.
Freddie Freelance
QUOTE(kalmia @ Mar 1 2006, 07:19 PM) [snapback]33123[/snapback]

should I microwave my driver's licence, just in case?

I wouldn't, you might delaminate some of the plastic layers.
Nick
For the past several months I've been in and out of Europe, and feel like such a loser everytime I come back to America.
le chaton
QUOTE(Nick @ Mar 2 2006, 09:01 PM) [snapback]34033[/snapback]

For the past several months I've been in and out of Europe, and feel like such a loser everytime I come back to America.
yes, agreed. that's why i'm never here for long.


i want you to read this post again carefully:
QUOTE(Hewletts Daughter @ Mar 1 2006, 02:28 AM) [snapback]32077[/snapback]
its even more sad when i look at my school's study abroad program. here, you can study abroad for a whole semester for basically a grand more than normal tutition. what the real killer is is that on average, per semester, only two students on average utilize and take advantage of this. seriously i wish i knew about it sooner because i would have been in like europe or something right about now.
yes, exactly.


QUOTE(CopyrightQ @ Mar 1 2006, 04:21 AM) [snapback]32097[/snapback]
I wouldn't be surprised if Americans probably travel more than any other country's citizens, due to the cost/affluence/available transportation.
no.


QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Mar 1 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]32150[/snapback]
Yeah, it's just really fucking cheap for us all to hop on a goddamn plane and fly to another country/continent.
QUOTE(avatar_ackbar @ Mar 1 2006, 08:19 AM) [snapback]32165[/snapback]
You goddamn euros are always on holiday...you get more time off than we do, it's cheaper for you to explore your countries, it's a no brainer that you guys travel more.


yes, especially you brits ... strongest currency in western world = helpful.
Nick
There's really nothing that interesting in America. Serious.
le chaton
QUOTE(Nick @ Mar 2 2006, 09:17 PM) [snapback]34043[/snapback]

There's really nothing that interesting in America. Serious.
oh, that's not fair. there's plenty interesting in America, what's pathetic is that we don't think there's anything interesting elsewhere. living in america is like swimming in the middle of the ocean ... can't see anything else for miles.
Nick
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 2 2006, 11:20 PM) [snapback]34044[/snapback]

oh, that's not fair. there's plenty interesting in America, what's pathetic is that we don't think there's anything interesting elsewhere. living in america is like swimming in the middle of the ocean ... can't see anything else for miles.


Name 3-7 things that are interesting in America.
le chaton
QUOTE(Nick @ Mar 2 2006, 09:22 PM) [snapback]34048[/snapback]

Name 3-7 things that are interesting in America.

1. the grand canyon
2. highway 1 in CA
3. road to hana in maui
4. alaska. everything about it.
5. the rocky mountains
6. texas. (you might not like it, but it sure fits the definition of "interesting")
7. baseball (yes, trite; still, nothing beats summer day + beer + peanuts + wrigley field)
8. art museums (Art Institute - french impressionism collection rivals that of the Louvre; MoMa)
9. excellent peanut butter, cookies, and milk (esp. in WI)
10. MUSIC. our music kicks ass, let's face it (have you ever been to a european disco?)
8. her fabulous cities: Chicago, NY, DC, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, etc. etc...

yes, there's plenty of wonderful (and arguably) 'more interesting things' in europe, but for just one country, we sure have a shit-ton of stuff.
avec
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 2 2006, 11:30 PM) [snapback]34053[/snapback]

1. the grand canyon
2. highway 1 in CA
3. road to hana in maui
4. alaska. everything about it.
5. the rocky mountains
6. texas. (you might not like it, but it sure fits the definition of "interesting")
7. baseball (yes, trite; still, nothing beats summer day + beer + peanuts + wrigley field)
8. art museums (Art Institute - french impressionism collection rivals that of the Louvre; MoMa)
9. excellent peanut butter, cookies, and milk (esp. in WI)
10. MUSIC. our music kicks ass, let's face it (have you ever been to a european disco?)
8. her fabulous cities: Chicago, NY, DC, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, etc. etc...

yes, there's plenty of wonderful (and arguably) 'more interesting things' in europe, but for just one country, we sure have a shit-ton of stuff.


fuck yeah!
Nick
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 2 2006, 11:30 PM) [snapback]34053[/snapback]

7. baseball (yes, trite; still, nothing beats summer day + beer + peanuts + wrigley field)
8. art museums (Art Institute - french impressionism collection rivals that of the Louvre; MoMa)
9. excellent peanut butter, cookies, and milk (esp. in WI)
10. MUSIC. our music kicks ass, let's face it (have you ever been to a european disco?)
8. her fabulous cities: Chicago



I'd only agree w/ you on these. Good job though.
le chaton
man, i'll give you texas, but i won't concede these ...

QUOTE(kat @ Mar 2 2006, 09:30 PM) [snapback]34053[/snapback]

1. the grand canyon
2. highway 1 in CA
3. road to hana in maui
4. alaska. everything about it.
5. the rocky mountains
+NY, DC, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, etc...


happy to appease you.
Nick
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 2 2006, 11:46 PM) [snapback]34068[/snapback]

man, i'll give you texas, but i won't concede these ...
happy to appease you.


I've been to the Grand Canyon. It's a big hole in the earth. Kind of like that quarry you drive by on the highway towards Indiana.
le chaton
QUOTE(Nick @ Mar 2 2006, 09:55 PM) [snapback]34073[/snapback]

I've been to the Grand Canyon. It's a big hole in the earth. Kind of like that quarry you drive by on the highway towards Indiana.

yep, it's just like midwestern rock quarries ...

and for the others? (AK, HA, CA, cities?)
Nick
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 3 2006, 12:00 AM) [snapback]34075[/snapback]

yep, it's just like midwestern rock quarries ...

and for the others? (AK, HA, CA, cities?)


LOL at Hawaii.

I've never been to Alaska.

San Francisco is okay. LA sucks.
le chaton
QUOTE(Nick @ Mar 2 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]34086[/snapback]

LOL at Hawaii.

I've never been to Alaska.

San Francisco is okay. LA sucks.

don't insult Hawaii with internet-speak.

Alaska is the most wonderous place you will ever be.

Everyone knows LA sucks; did you see that on my list? thank you.
Jigga
Nick OTM as usual.
Complain
Jigga - far off base as usual.

If you aren't some 17 year old white college wannabe, I have a question for you:

Who told you "America" was a continent?

NORTH America is a continent. SOUTH America is a continent. Which one do you rate fifth in your list?

Follow up question: assuming you're real, have you ever BEEN to the States?
Binko
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 3 2006, 12:19 AM) [snapback]34088[/snapback]

don't insult Hawaii with internet-speak.


For the record, I'm more of a northern climes person, and Alaska is definitely on my hit list. (I think I only have 8 more states to visit.) But back to Hawaii. I don't like islands and beaches. My idea of a vacation is visiting a foreign city and exploring restaurants and museums.

That said, Hawaii is one of the most magical places I've ever been to. I went for a friend's wedding on the island of Lanai'i, and I was completely blown away by the majesty and variety of it all. Unforunately, I didn't have any time to island hop, but each of the islands have a distinct personality. I mean, seriously, I'm blown away by the difference in flaura, fauna, and landscape all the islands have to offer.

If you ever have a chance to visit Hawaii, absolutely go for it.
Binko
QUOTE(kat @ Mar 2 2006, 11:11 PM) [snapback]34037[/snapback]

yes, especially you brits ... strongest currency in western world = helpful.


Hmm...I've actually never heard the pound refered to as the western world's strongest currency, at least not in the past decade. I have heard the Swiss Franc claimed to be the world's strongest, as well as the Euro, the Australian Dollar, and the Canadian Dollar.
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