so, i guess this record isn't as bad as i had feared it could be. definitely their best since New Adventures but still something vital is missing here. it just doesn't feel natural to me, it's as if they can't do it right anymore.

is it wrong to say that maybe it's Buck's fault? his writing/playing just seems so blah on the last 3 records.

look back to those records from the 80s...while they're not my favorite they're propulsive and full of vim and vigor. There are not many old guys that can replicate the driving force and energy that they held when they were younger. Which is fine, truly it is. But if you're going to make low-key stuff it has to be with passion, something those last two REM albums sorely lacked. I believe I finally have the whole of Accelerate DL'd, so I'll get in the actual album discussion soon, but I can't imagine them matching their old energy at this point.

Stipe shares some of that blame too. His vocals used to be one of the more unique instruments in music. Now he sounds kind of flat and tired and old. Though it sounds like there's some vocal "enhancement" going on in the studio that could contribute to that.

The album is OK, definitely a big improvement over the last one, about equal to Reveal (which I liked). Up is still their best post-Berry album.

I'm sure saying that it's equal to "Reveal" won't make anyone buy it...and I'm just about the only one who would agree with you on "Up", too.

You must not read a lot of opinions on Up around here. It's been heralded as being quite underappreciated by many SOMBies, myself included.

This is true. I myself just started to appreciate Up over the past six months after thinking it was their worst album for years.

Still, I think Accelerate is better than Up. I love the economy of the songs on it and the playing. I dig 8 of the 11 tracks, which is a solid batting average.

perhaps I'm thinking back to a day when I said I really liked "Up" and people said I was a fool for doing so...ah memories...

Two Stipe interviews out today:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feat...3-interview-rem

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/feature/art...nterstitialskip

The Billboard interview is the better of the two.

I've defended Up in this thread and elsewhere. It hasn't worn as well as their other records, but its still an exciting record, where Reveal and ATS sounded complacent, Up is experimental. "Lotus", "Sad Professor", "At My Most Beautiful", "Suspicion" all rank among my favorite R.E.M. tracks. And the production on this one is pretty stunning. For a band of their stature in 1998 to make a record like Up was a pretty bold move, and an increasingly rare one at that.

I'll back you up (pun intended) on the Up assessment.

As for Accelerate, my first weighing in on it, now that I've had about 4 listens.
No, it doesn't have the urgency, spark, mystery that their early work had. But it does mirror that work quite well. Bottom line...it gets me fired up and makes me want to stand up and play air guitar.
I'd give it a B+.

Those lambasting the album were predisposed to doing so. It's obvious. Mitch has never been a fan as far as I can tell. He holds them in same light as The Replacements and Wilco. A Brit not quite relating to the American intangible that courses through their music.

You're pretty spot on as far as pinning down some of the comments of those here on Accelerate. I'm taking a break from the record for a few days, so that I'm not burnt out on it by the time its actually released. R.E.M. release dates have always been events for me, and I still want to retain at least a little excitement this time.

My favorite aspect of Up in looking back is just how great the guitars sound. That Neil Young-ish riffing at the opening to "Lotus" (and the way that it contrasts with the Roxy Music homage that is the rest of the song), the layers upon layers of feedback on "Sad Professor", the trippy, effects laden solo on "Suspicion", the slide guitar on "Daysleeper". Its funny that Up is often mentioned as their "electronica" album, yet Buck was clearly at the top of his game here.

Actually I love REM's IRS period so Rob is completely wrong there.

It's also got nothing to do with them being American, they sell more records in Europe anyway.

No, Mitch is a fan of the Berry-era of R.E.M., although I think I remember him saying he liked Reveal, too. I think I recall him putting Lifes Rich Pageant on his top 100 albums of all time as well as liking a bunch of their other records. Even so, he went into listening to the new one with such a bad attitude, he was compared by some boarders to Montana in one of the R.E.M. threads--maybe even this one.

As for the mystery of the early recordings, Rob, that's gone forever. But Accelerate is still a strong record, one I'm liking more and more with each listen.

Fair enough. My bad.
Yeah, I do realize they are more popular in the UK these days then here at home.

There's something about all of these "REM are back!" articles that's rubbing me the wrong way. Especially the Spin cover story.

Seems like they're trying to have it both ways, kind of hinting that they know the last three albums weren't very good, but then saying, "Actually, we really love those songs, they're good...we just weren't communicating."

Or only touring to big cities where they can play arenas, instead of coming to, say, Detroit, and playing a big theater that's appropriate for their current level of popularity.

They want so desperately to be 'U2 huge,' but for their current press campaign to work, they have to acknowledge that their popularity has slid. Yet they can't fully commit to it, so it all reads awkward as hell.

They want so desperately to be U2 huge. - quote



Bullshit. If they did, they wouldn't have released Up and Around the Sun.

Edit: That's not to say they don't want to be popular.

Well, their 'weird' records in the '90s sold millions, they probably thought they could do whatever they wanted.

Plus, why are they finally making their Back to Basics album? Using a producer that the Edge recommended?

Let's call a spade a spade: this is their stab at an All That You Can't Leave Behind-style late-career save. The Safe Play.

Listened to 4 tunes today (iRiver's on shuffle) and liked two of them a lot and thought that only "Hollow Man" was okay-ish. I'm shocked to say the least as to how much more spirited these guys are.

I don't hear much that is safe on Accelrate. It's a rock record, one that they hoped would be a hit. In 2003, they had roughly 25 to choose from--half of them rock, half ballad-y type songs. They decided to make the softer album first, then the the rock album. Had they made them in reverse order, people would be saying in 2004, Oh, this is their attempt to be popular again.

I don't think they thought Up would be huge or Around the Sun, for that matter. I think once they got the contract they said, "Let's try this [Up]." They had the freedom to do what they wanted and the time. I do think they want a hit album, but I don't hold that against them. I think they were also smarting that Around the Sun wasn't just their worst selling album, but that it also got the worst reviews of their career.

Plus, they weren't going to go the rest of their lives without ever rocking again. They said they'd rock after Out of Time, but it took a while longer before they made Monster (after AftP). The same thing happened here: after so many slow and medium-paced songs and albums, they were ready to rock again. Do they want to be popular? Sure. But it was time to make rock album and they had all these rock songs from earlier in the decade.

Just look at their video (which I've only seen once) for the first single. It's just them travelling to a sex shop and meeting people, for the most part. They only sing one word in it--"Wow," the last one. That seems more in keeping with their '80s low-budget vidoes than any great attempt to wow people with a high-profile video. Similarly, the album sounds more in keeping with their mid-eighties stuff than their much more popular nineties material.

As for the new producer, they really needed one. Pat McCarthy and R.E.M. received a hell of a lot blame for overproducing their last couple of records. McCarthy had to go. Sure, they didn't have to choose Lee, but they said they heard great things from him, so I don't blame them (that doesn't mean they want to be as huge as U2). I probably would if I hated the album, but it really is the best thing I've heard from them in over a decade, so it's fine by me.

They'll play more cities in the fall. They probably know that they'll never be huge again in America, but as recently as Reveal they were stadium-level huge in parts of Europe. So, there's probably some level of them wanting to save that.

Its calculated only to the extent that any band at their level has to be calculated. Personally, the album is far more spirited and catchy than U2's "comeback" attempt. So even if that was the aim, they've succeeded at it better than U2 did.

Have you read the cover story in the new Spin, though? Buck seems to have an inflated sense of their current standing.

Plus, it bums me out that a seasoned writer like Michael Azerrad never calls them on the calculated nature of it all...but what do you expect from a guy who lists "Electron Blue" as his favorite REM song in the same issue?

Like it or not, there's nothing on Accelerate as good as "Beautiful Day" or the other singles from the U2 disc.

I'm no U2 lover, but I admire their ability to craft probably their most popular song a good 20 years into their career.

"Beautiful Day" is a great pop song, no doubt. But as mentioned here before, if R.E.M. were trying to recapture past glories the same way U2 did, they'd break out the mandolins, call up Kate Pierson (or Feist, in an attempt at updating) and record Out of Time 2. Instead they looked back to the critical favorite, Life's Rich Pageant, and judging from Buck's quotes, some of their early career contemporaries like Husker Du, who were never popular. Accelerate isn't quite at that level sure, but its still more exciting and less safe than U2's comeback records.

Now even U2 seem to be admitting in some of their early press that THEIR last 2 records were crap and that they are looking at pushing the envelope again. So who's influencing who here?

(For the 9 millionth time) America isnt The World.

The very last tour they did was huge everywhere else and still played to big crowds here.

I read only a little of it. I really am not too interested in the interviews they give because I do think a lot of them are calculated. I probably would be as annoyed as you are if I read them, though.

Even though I don't think there is any song on here that will be as popular as "Beautiful Day," which is certainly NOT their most popular single, I definitely like the album Accelerate more than ATYCLB. (I like the latter album better than some, but don't think it's anything great.)

Funny, that's my problem with Accelerate...it's Life's Rich Pageant 2, only minus the great songs. If that isn't trying to recapture past glories, I don't know what is.

Recapturing past critical glories > Recapturing commercial glories which is what you seemed to be arguing that they are trying to do.

FWIW: Living Well, Man Sized Wreath (which I like more and more), Mr Richards, Horse to Water would not have been out of place on LRP. Hollow Man, Accelerate, Houston are good songs in their own right. No need to live up to one of the greatest albums of all time.

If you don't like the songs, that's one thing. The point is, though, they didn't make the songs so they would be "U2 huge," which was in your original post. They made them because they thought they were good and most people who have commented and reviewers seem to agree with them.

Good point. Maybe I'm "trying to have it both ways" with my criticism, too.

I don't think Accelerate was crafted to have huge radio hits, but it's a little too musically self-referential for my taste.

I've probably read waaay too many interviews with these guys over the years...but I clearly remember Peter Buck slamming so many classic rockers for hanging around well past their sell-by date. Now guess who's slinging the familiar "This is up there with the best stuff we've ever done" quote?

Again, Buck and, especially, Stipe are full of shit in interviews. Didn't Stipe use to say anything around Monster just to see if reporters would print it? Like I said, if I read more of their interviews, I'd probably be as pissed as you at some of the bonehead things they say. I remember watching a documentary on Bravo in '99 where Buck said, "Up is our greatest record." Even Berry echoed the same words on VH-1, after he left, though he may have just been being nice. In interviews, they are like politicians. They have talking points so the stories will read the way they want them to. And a lot of it is just bullshit.

You're totally right. Yet I keep reading these, expecting some kind of insight.

Hey, if you can't at least convince yourself that your current record is your best ever, then you should just pack it in. You only have to believe that long enough to record another one, anyway.

Maybe. But you get the sense after hearing it from millions of old bands that they don't really believe it. They are just saying it. They aren't trying to convince themselves. They are trying to convince everyone else. At least with Accelerate, R.E.M. is talking up a good record.

FYI, BBC2 is currently streaming their concert from Royal Albert Hall right now. Sounds better than the SXSW show. I jumped in late, so not sure what's been played. I know Hollow Man and Supernatural Superserious were just played, and right now its Final Straw.

life's rich pageant is one of the greatest albums of all time? hogwash

it's definitely one of the top 3 REM albums, though.

yeah, Life's Rich Pageant is easily one of the top three R.E.M. discs for certain

anyone think this album has big replay value? i dig it now but even as i listen to songs like 'sing for the submarine' my mind starts to wander. also, 'houston' belongs on automatic or out of time. its inclusion is somewhat jarring, especially after the first few tracks (which are really, really good).

Yes, I do. I keep playing it. "Man Sized Wreath" is pretty great--I like it a hell of a lot more than I did when I first heard it. "Hollow Man" is growing on me, too.

As for Lifes Rich Pageant, I think it is one of the best albums ever. When I first saw an R.E.M. best album thread on this board, Automatic won handily. I've seen enough people say they love Pageant recently for me to think Pageant may now be the SOMB favorite for R.E.M. (I could be wrong, though).

LRP is probably my second favorite R.E.M. disc

it still can't top Hi Fi for me. then again, i don't think much ever will top that for me.

at least THAT statement is within reason's realm. BUT...

r.e.m.'s catalog includes 'murmur', 'automatic for the people', and 'reckoning':

with a straight face name me one of these three that LRP is "easily" better than

by the way, if you say 'murmur' i promise to reach through your monitor and choke you. with both hands

edit: oh no you di'int!

LRP is easily better than Reckoning (which I love, but always felt a little short of complete to me)

Here was my logic in saying that LRP is one of the best albums of all time.

1. R.E.M. is probably in my top 3-5 bands of all time. Certainly #1 in terms of the amount of passion I have for them as a band as well as continual sustained interest.

2. The run of albums from Murmur to Up is one of the finest in rock history.

3. LRP is probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite among that run.

4. Rock and roll has been around for over 50 years and has probably, as a genre, released 100,000 ++ albums.

5. Saying that LRP, for me, is in the top 200-300 albums of all time is by no means a stretch. I never said, #1 or Top 10 or anything of the sort.

LRP is my favorite REM album. IMO, easily better than Murmur & Reckoning.

Automatic For The People, Life's Rich Pageant and New Adventures In Hi-Fi are my three faves

That is why you are smart.

Agree.

Looks like I'm the bogey man in this thread, I can see how I people were pissed at me but. I had low expectations while waiting on the back of the leak and the continual THEY'RE BACK stories were just preparing me for a let-down (as was the single). When the album did leak I was seeing comments like "Probably their 10th best album" how exciting. I felt like after the last one I was just listening to it for the sake of it and I even after a few more spins I still not moved on half the tracks and the comparison to U2 this decade fits for me as well. Maybe not having an emotional attachment to the band that many here no doubt do and I do to bands as well I'm not impressed with the album seemingly a 'dog-whistle' to their fan base. I'd have rather heard another record like Up or even the more summery Beach Boys parts of Reveal to be honest, at least it felt like they were trying something interesting there even if they failed. People saying that any song on here could stand up on LRP I don't know what to say to them, this band have been putting out records longer than I have been alive and into their third decade they've put out an album that doesn't stink, that's good but it's not even close to being the best record or one of the best record of the year. If you've listened to it ten times more than me and you think it's a grower I'm pleased for you, me I'm going to listen to something I've not heard before.

Edit: Shit. I guess my post is part of Mitch's now.

I don't think it's bad, just not that good. I'd give it 2.5 stars and move on.

Same here.

Still liking the new one, too.

DeRo:

It surely is no exaggeration to say that Berry’s departure was an even greater blow to R.E.M. than the deaths of Keith Moon and John Bonham were to the Who and Led Zeppelin; the latter were merely phenomenal drummers, while Berry was that as well as an astounding singer and songwriter.