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crease
From SI.com...

QUOTE
NEW YORK (SI.com) -- Beginning in 1998 with injections in his buttocks of Winstrol, a powerful steroid, Barry Bonds took a wide array of performance-enhancing drugs over at least five seasons in a massive doping regimen that grew more sophisticated as the years went on, according to Game of Shadows, a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters at the forefront of reporting on the BALCO steroid distribution scandal.

(An excerpt of Game of Shadows that details Bonds' steroid use appears exclusively in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated, which is available on newsstands beginning on Wednesday. The book's publication date is March 27.)

The authors, Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, describe in sometimes day-to-day, drug-by-drug detail how often and how deeply Bonds engaged in the persistent doping. For instance, the authors write that by 2001, when Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season home-run record (70) by belting 73, Bonds was using two designer steroids referred to as the Cream and the Clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (a fast-acting steroid known as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.

BALCO tracked Bonds' usage with doping calendars and folders -- detailing drugs, quantities, intervals and Bonds' testosterone levels -- that wound up in the hands of federal agents upon their Sept. 3, 2003 raid of the Burlingame, Calif., business.

Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.

Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, "F--- off, I'll do it myself.''

The authors compiled the information over a two-year investigation that included, but was not limited to, court documents, affidavits filed by BALCO investigators, confidential memoranda of federal agents (including statements made to them by athletes and trainers), grand jury testimony, audiotapes and interviews with more than 200 sources. Some of the information previously was reported by the authors in the Chronicle. Some of the information is new. For instance, in an extensive note on sourcing, the authors said memos detailing statements by BALCO owner Victor Conte, vice president James Valente and Anderson to IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky were sealed when they first consulted them, but have been unsealed since.

The preponderance of evidence is by far the most detailed and damning condemnation that Bonds, formerly a sleek five-tool player, built himself into a hulking, record-setting home run hitter at an advanced baseball age with a cornucopia of elaborate, illegally-administered chemicals. Through 1998, for instance, when he turned 34, Bonds averaged one home run every 16.1 at bats. Since then -- what the authors identify as the start of his doping regimen -- Bonds has hit home runs nearly twice as frequently (one every 8.5 at bats).

The authors describe how Bonds turned to steroids after the 1998 season because he was jealous of McGwire. Bonds hit 37 home runs in '98 -- a nice total and the fourth most of his career at that point -- but he was ignored by fans and the media who were captivated by McGwire's 70 home runs and his duel for the record with Sammy Sosa, who hit 66 that year.

According to the book, Bonds, in comments to his mistress, Kimberly Bell, often dismissed McGwire with racially-charged remarks such as, "They're just letting him do it because he's a white boy." But Bonds looked at McGwire and his hulking physique and decided he needed to dramatically increase his muscle mass to compete with him.

It was immediately after that 1998 season, the book said, that Bonds hooked up with Anderson, a gym rat known to obtain steroids and growth hormone from AIDS patients in San Francisco who were legally prescribed the drugs but sold them to make money. The authors write that the San Francisco Giants, Bonds' employer, would later discover through a background check that Anderson was connected to a gym that was known as a place to score steroids and that he was rumored to be a dealer. Yet the Giants -- who didn't want to upset their superstar -- continued to allow Anderson free reign about their ballpark and inside their clubhouse.

The authors write that Anderson started Bonds on Winstrol, also known as stanozolol, the longtime favorite steroid of bodybuilders, disgraced sprinter Ben Johnson and baseball player Rafael Palmeiro. In 100 days, Bonds packed on 15 pounds of muscle, and at age 35 hit home runs at the best rate of his career, once every 10.4 at bats. But he also grew too big, too fast. He tore his triceps tendon, telling Bell that the steroids "makes me grow faster, but if you're not careful, you can blow it out."

The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well.

Bonds added more drugs after the 2000 season, when Anderson hooked up Bonds with BALCO and its founder, Conte, according to the authors. In addition to the Cream and the Clear, the steroids designed to be undetectable, Bonds took such drugs as Clomid, a women's infertility drug thought to help a steroid user recover his natural testosterone production, and Modafinil, a narcolepsy drug used as a powerful stimulant.

Whereas Anderson's drug acumen had been forged in the gym culture, Conte and his chemists brought Bonds to another level of sophistication, by prescribing him elaborate cocktails of drugs designed to be even more effective and undetectable. For instance, the authors write that in 2002, when Bonds won his fifth MVP Award and had a .700 on-base percentage in the World Series, he was fueled by meticulous three-week cycles in which he injected growth hormone every other day, took the Cream and the Clear in the days in between, and capped the cycle with Clomid. The cycle was followed by one week off. The authors write that Anderson usually administered the drugs to Bonds at Bonds' home, using a needle to inject the growth hormone and a syringe without a needle to squirt the Clear under his tongue.

In addition to detailing the drug usage, the excerpt portrays Bonds as a menacing boor, a tax cheat and an adulterer given to (probably because of the rampant steroid use) sexual dysfunction, hair loss and wild mood swings that included periods of rage. The authors report that Bonds gave Bell, with whom he continued his affair after his second marriage in January 1998, $80,000 in cash in 2001 from memorabilia income not reported to the IRS. Theirs was a volatile relationship. Bell retained answering machine recordings of him after he threatened to kill her, remarking that if she disappeared no one would be able to prove he even knew her.

In 2003, as their relationship completely unraveled, Bell angered Bonds by showing up late for a hotel rendezvous. According to the excerpt, Bonds put his hand around her throat, pressed her against a wall and whispered, "If you ever f-----' pull some s--- like that again I'll kill you, do you understand me?"

A few weeks later, the authors write, Bonds told Bell, "You need to disappear."

In secret grand jury testimony obtained by the authors, Bonds testified that he did not know what the substances were that Anderson gave him and he put in his body, saying at one point, "It's like, 'Whatever, dude.'" Bonds testified under a grant of immunity, though he was told the immunity did not extend to perjury.

Bonds begins this season with 708 home runs, seven short of passing Babe Ruth for second on the all-time list and 48 from surpassing Hank Aaron as the all-time leader. Three knee surgeries limited Bonds to 14 games last season, have reduced his mobility and left in question his fitness for regular duty this year.

In October, Conte was sentenced to four months in prison and four months of home confinement as part of a plea deal with prosecutors. Anderson pled guilty to money laundering and a steroid distribution charge. He was sentenced to three months in prison and three months of home confinement. Valente pled guilty to reduced charges of steroid distribution and was sentenced to probation.
without_opinion
i don't ever want to see a picture of Victor Conte. I've always imagined he looks like Vincent Price, and I'd like it to stay that way.
birdistheword
I just read this too. HOLY. SHIT. The accusation of abuse is old, old news, but this is a SHITLOAD of DAMNING evidence, like a smoking gun to the 100th power.

Say what you will about Dusty Baker, but his managerial incompetence produced one great deed: it cost Bonds a World Series ring in 2002.
tjenz
fuck Barry Bonds and his over inflated home run totals,his over inflated body and the ballpark they built with no right field so he could have even more homers
crease
Yeah, it's the totality of this evidence which is so troubling. MLB is getting what it deserves for sitting on its hands -- if he's not officially a stain on the game, he's on the brink.
MattW
I'm pretty ambivalent towards Bonds, but I don't really see much evidence here. It's a lot of speculation and hearsay based on this article. Until he tests positive, there's really much we can do with these allegations.
HewlettsDaughter
hopefully this will spark something within baseball to investigate this guy. he is, as previously said, definitely a stain on the game.
crease
So you're saying you think that there's at least a decent chance that these reporters are either making stuff up, their sources are doing the same, or a little of both? We can speak to the legal dimension -- and the fact that we don't (to our knowledge) have a smoking gun (although, if I'm not mistaken, Bonds has tested positive for the Clear previously...I believe he blamed that on his trainer) -- and conclude that this isn't enough. But from a common sense/intuition point of view, I don't know how you could take this account together with all of the other suspicious circumstances (like, um, his body, including his cranium, growing freakishly large freakishly fast), and not conclude that there's something untoward going on. I think his goose his cooked.
Dag Nasty
It isn't healthy to hate people, I know...especially people I have never nor will ever meet...but I f*cking loathe Barry Bonds. Every single thing he does as an "athlete", every sacred milestone he passes, every great name he replaces, every time he puts on a uniform, it makes me sick. I won't feel a shred of pity for the man when he dies of an enlarged heart or liver failure at 48 years old. The idea of his name ahead of Ruth's or, God forbid, Aaron's? Heresy. I hope that bone-on-bone knee grind he talks about so often keeps him from ever standing in a batter's box again.
Hips
IPB Image
any chick with guns like that has got to be on something.
birdistheword
There's more at SI.com regarding sources.

QUOTE

This narrative is based on more than a thousand pages of documents and interviews with more than 200 people, many of whom we spoke to repeatedly. In our reporting on the BALCO story for the San Francisco Chronicle, we obtained transcripts of the secret grand jury testimony of Barry Bonds and seven other prominent professional athletes. We also reviewed confidential memorandums detailing federal agents' interviews with other athletes and trainers who had direct knowledge of BALCO. Sealed material we reviewed also included unredacted versions of affidavits filed by the BALCO investigators; e-mail between BALCO owner Victor Conte and several athletes and coaches regarding the use and distribution of drugs; a list of evidence seized from the BALCO storage locker; and a document prepared to brief participants in the raid on BALCO.

Memos detailing the statements of Conte, BALCO vice president James Valente and Bonds's trainer, Greg Anderson, to IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky were sealed when we first reviewed them, but they have since become part of the public file in the BALCO case. The BALCO search warrant affidavits and other court records provided significant information. We also obtained a recording made without Anderson's knowledge in 2003 by a person familiar with Bonds's trainer; in it, Anderson acknowledged that Bonds was using an undetectable performance-enhancing drug to beat baseball's drug tests. Kimberly Bell, Bonds's former girlfriend, provided legal correspondence, transcripts, audiotapes of voice mail and many documents regarding her relationship with Bonds.

We conducted our interviews about BALCO from September 2003 until the autumn of '05. The names of many of our sources appear in the text or in the extensive chapter notes included in Game of Shadows. Some sources requested anonymity to avoid interfering with the federal BALCO investigation and a related grand jury probe that continued into '05. Some additional information about sources who requested anonymity appears in the chapter notes.

When they raided BALCO in September 2003, federal investigators began to accumulate evidence that Bonds was a steroid user. By the summer of '05, investigators had convincing proof that he had been using performance-enhancing drugs for years and that drugs had been provided to him by Anderson, who obtained them from BALCO and other sources. The evidence also showed that Bonds had not been truthful when he told the BALCO grand jury under oath that he hadn't knowingly used steroids.

After his grand jury appearance, Bonds continued to insist publicly that he had never used banned drugs, and the San Francisco Giants, who were paying him $90 million over five years, made no move to investigate his conduct or restrict his contact with suspected steroid dealers, arguing that there was no proof of wrongdoing.

Nevertheless, proof of Bonds's drug use exists, most of it in the possession of federal agents, much of it in the public domain. The evidence includes the statements of confessed steroid dealers, the account of a Bonds confidant as well as considerable documentary and circumstantial evidence. It also includes the account of a source familiar with Bonds who has specific knowledge of his use of banned drugs. That evidence forms the foundation of this narrative. Here is the evidence in review.

• Statements to Federal Agents

1. When he was questioned during the raid, BALCO's James Valente told Novitzky that Bonds had received the undetectable steroids the Cream and the Clear from BALCO. Valente said Anderson had brought Bonds to BALCO before the 2003 season, seeking steroids that would not show up on drug tests. Valente said he provided Anderson with drugs to give to Bonds. Valente pleaded guilty to a steroid conspiracy charge in 2005.

2. In his own statement during the raid, Conte gave an identical account of Anderson's bringing Bonds to BALCO and Bonds's subsequent use of the Cream and the Clear. Conte said Bonds used the drugs on a regular basis. Conte later claimed Novitzky's report contained words he never said. But it is significant that in 2005, Conte backed out of an evidentiary hearing in which he could have confronted Novitzky about the supposedly incorrect statements and sought to have them thrown out of court. Instead, Conte pleaded guilty to a steroid conspiracy charge.

3. When Anderson was questioned by agents on the day of the raid, he admitted giving banned drugs to many of his "baseball clients" but denied giving drugs to Bonds. In a search of Anderson's residence, agents found calendars referring to Bonds that plotted his use of steroids. When the agents sought to question Anderson about the calendars, the trainer said he didn't think he should talk anymore because he didn't want to go to jail. He pleaded guilty to steroid conspiracy and acknowledged in court that he dealt drugs to baseball players.

4. In the summer of 2004 the former Olympic shot putter C. J. Hunter told agent Novitzky that Conte had confided to him that Bonds was using the Clear. Hunter said their conversation had taken place in '03. Hunter's lawyer later said the federal agent's report was incorrect and that Conte had not implicated Bonds to Hunter.

• U.S. Grand Jury Testimony

1. In 2005 Kimberly Bell told the BALCO grand jury that in '00 Bonds had confided in her that he was using steroids, saying they helped him recover from injuries but also blaming them for the elbow injury that sidelined him in 1999.

2. In 2003 sprinter Tim Montgomery told the grand jury that when he visited BALCO in '00 or '01, he saw vials of the steroid Winstrol in BALCO's weight room. Montgomery testified that Conte said he was giving Winstrol to Bonds.

3. In 2003 five baseball players told the grand jury that they'd gotten steroids, growth hormone and other drugs from Anderson, whom they had met in his role as Bonds's trainer. The obvious import of their testimony was that they were receiving the same drugs that Anderson was giving Bonds, but the players claimed no direct knowledge of Bonds's steroid use.

• Documents

At Anderson's apartment, investigators found steroids, growth hormone and $60,000 in cash, along with a folder that contained doping calendars and other documents detailing Bonds's use of steroids. Prosecutors questioned Bonds about the documents during his appearance before the grand jury. Some document entries reflect payments for drugs for Bonds: $1,500 for two boxes of growth hormone; $450 for a bottle of Depotestosterone; $100 for 100 Clomiphene pills; $200 for the Cream and the Clear. Other entries reflect Bonds's drug cycle: For February 2002, a calendar showed alternating days of the Cream, the Clear and growth hormone followed by "Clow," or Clomid.

A document labeled "BLB 2003" listed cities where the Giants played away games in 2003, with notations for the use of growth hormone, the Clear, the Cream and insulin on specific days. Other documents associated with Bonds referred to the use of trenbolone and "beans," the Mexican steroid. At Anderson's apartment, and in a search of BALCO's trash, the agents also found evidence of Bonds's blood being sent to drug labs for steroid testing.

• Circumstantial Evidence

To some experts, the changes in Bonds's body in recent years constitute persuasive evidence of steroid use. No one at his age could put on so much muscle without using steroids, these observers reason.

According to team media guides, which are often imprecise, Bonds has grown one inch in height and gained 43 pounds since his rookie year of 1986. In 2004, the Giants reported his weight as 228, but sources familiar with Bonds say he was heavier. Bonds himself has claimed all the weight gain is muscle, not fat. In '97, when the Giants reported that he weighed 206, Bonds told USA Today that his body fat was an extraordinarily low 8%. In '02, when Bonds's weight was listed at 228, Greg Anderson told The New York Times Magazine that Bonds's body fat was even lower: 6.2%.

The belief that the changes in Bonds's body reflect steroid use is supported by the research of Harvard psychiatrist Harrison Pope, an expert on the mental-health effects of steroid abuse. In 1995, in The Clinical Journal of Sports Medicine, Pope and three colleagues published a mathematical formula for use in determining whether a person is using steroids. The "Fat-Free Mass Index," as the formula is called, predicts steroid use from a series of computations involving the subject's "lean muscle mass," which is determined from height, weight and percentage of body fat. The higher the index number, the leaner and more muscular the individual is. The average 30-year-old American male scores 20, Pope says, while the former Mr. America Steve Reeves, the most famous muscle man of the presteroid era, scored 25 in his prime. A score of more than 25 indicates steroid use.

In 1997, when Bonds reportedly weighed 206 and had 8% body fat, he scored 24.8 on the index. In 2002, when Bonds reportedly weighed 228 and had body fat of 6.2% his score was 28 -- well over the level of a "presumptive diagnosis" of steroid use.

Issue date: March 13, 2006
amotin
buttocks lol
Uncle Remus
very sad that this is true. The MLB is at fault for allowing this to go on, btw. They knew it, they, even subconsciously, knew about it and allowed it.
MattW
QUOTE(crease @ Mar 7 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]37519[/snapback]

So you're saying you think that there's at least a decent chance that these reporters are either making stuff up, their sources are doing the same, or a little of both? We can speak to the legal dimension -- and the fact that we don't (to our knowledge) have a smoking gun (although, if I'm not mistaken, Bonds has tested positive for the Clear previously...I believe he blamed that on his trainer) -- and conclude that this isn't enough. But from a common sense/intuition point of view, I don't know how you could take this account together with all of the other suspicious circumstances (like, um, his body, including his cranium, growing freakishly large freakishly fast), and not conclude that there's something untoward going on. I think his goose his cooked.


I'm just saying I've heard this before. I'm not defending him, and I'm definitely in the crowd that is suspicious of him. I just don't know what can be done about a tell-all book from members of the same media Bonds has enjoyed agitating for years. If people acted on all the tell-alls about George W. Bush, he'd be impeached and Congress would be 65% Democratic.

Since that's not the case, there's really nothing that come be deduced from it.
emgee
QUOTE(without_opinion @ Mar 7 2006, 12:34 PM) [snapback]37495[/snapback]

i don't ever want to see a picture of Victor Conte. I've always imagined he looks like Vincent Price, and I'd like it to stay that way.


Close! He resembles a porn star version of the Addam's Family dad.

Conte should have stuck to playing bass for Tower of Power....
edit: actually, "We Came to Play" was their worst album ever. I take that back
MCF
If you don't know Barry Bonds has used Steriods by merely looking at a timeline pictography, I'm pretty sure you believe Michael Jackson has had a minor nose job... As far as the asterisk goes, forget about evidence. The asterisk is already there and it isn't going away. Barry knows it, his dad knows, Dusty knows it, and Sammy Sosa knows it too.

The lid is off the can, the hand is in the cookie jar. Forget about it. All the records of this era will always be, 200 years from now, looked at as doctored and fake. No real baseball fans will ever look at them as real. Barry Bonds' numbers are as meaningless as Sammy Sosa's. As far as I, and every other baseball fan on the planet is concerned, Roger Maris is still the home run king. Barry's numbers are meaningless.
MattW
QUOTE(MCF @ Mar 7 2006, 05:49 PM) [snapback]37708[/snapback]

As far as I, and every other baseball fan on the planet is concerned, Roger Maris is still the home run king. Barry's numbers are meaningless.


You wouldn't be from North Dakota, are you?
MCF
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 7 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]37716[/snapback]

You wouldn't be from North Dakota, are you?


I'm from your ass.
MattDrufke
This is all in the lap of Bud Selig. Unfortunately, Selig will do nothing. Here's hoping this is the start of something great for baseball.
Nick
They can write 10 more of these books and it won't get him out of the game. He'll just keep denying it and talking in circles.
partyboatmelvin
QUOTE(Nick @ Mar 7 2006, 05:52 PM) [snapback]37845[/snapback]

They can write 10 more of these books and it won't get him out of the game. He'll just keep denying it and talking in circles.



And Giant fans will keep paying money to see him, and they will cheer him when he hits one out.
emgee
QUOTE(partyboatmelvin @ Mar 7 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]37877[/snapback]

And Giant fans will keep paying money to see him, and they will cheer him when he hits one out.


And so will fans in every other city. Let's face it. The home run is the highlight of any trip to the ballpark and people pay good mony to see them. To take it one step further, before the steroid allegations McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were credited with saving the game after an ugly strike led many fans to turn their back on the sport. We heard discussions about " a new live ball" and "McGwire's/Sosa's athleticism. It was all bullshit, but Bud Selig had no reason to raise a red flag.
Fans were filling the seats and night after night homers were flying out of the park at a rate never seen before..
In no way can I condone with what happened here and it's a shame that every record in the 90s will have an asterisks next to it (except for Ripken's). Major League Baseball had a chance to do the right thing and demand more frequent testing. They chose to do the opposite and the result led to some of the most impressive displays of hitting this game will ever see.
Opposing fans will Boo Bonds until the he can't hear anymore, but the as soon as he puts another longball into SF bay, they will only be able to say one thing, "wow." Sad, but true. That is, of course, if he ever plays again and my money says he will have a career ending knee injury in a matter of days.

Rad Monkey
I'm not so sure about Ripken, stereroids do help athletes heal faster. You see what they did, they have be doubting Cal Ripken Jr and it pains me that I even have to.
tjenz
QUOTE(MattDrufke @ Mar 7 2006, 07:22 PM) [snapback]37832[/snapback]

This is all in the lap of Bud Selig. Unfortunately, Selig will do nothing. Here's hoping this is the start of something great for baseball.

the beauty part of this is that it is completely overshadowing Selig's World Baseball Classic or whatever the Hell he's calling that thing that no one is watching

seems unlikely that Bonds would still be on 'roids at this point. He'll pass Ruth, but there is no way his beat up roid free body will hold up to pass Hank. He has said many times that he only wants to pass Ruth.
He'll hit the DL as soon as he gets to 716 homers

Watch Barry grow
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi...de.html?cnn=yes
MCF
QUOTE(The Priest @ Mar 8 2006, 08:17 AM) [snapback]38083[/snapback]

the beauty part of this is that it is completely overshadowing Selig's World Baseball Classic or whatever the Hell he's calling that thing that no one is watching

seems unlikely that Bonds would still be on 'roids at this point. He'll pass Ruth, but there is no way his beat up roid free body will hold up to pass Hank. He has said many times that he only wants to pass Ruth.
He'll hit the DL as soon as he gets to 716 homers

Watch Barry grow
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi...de.html?cnn=yes


Yeah, but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference who he passes. He's ruined. His records mean nothing. Neither do Sosa's or McGwire's or Giambi's. These turds won't make the hall. They are a blip on the screen at this point.

You can say what you want about evidence, and all that. This book has ruined Barry Bonds. He'll never recover from this. It will be a stigma till he dies. He won't get any respect from anybody when he quits.

Just like Sosa.

"Delivered with the blunt force of a sledgehammer, Game of Shadows is to Barry Bonds what the Dowd Report was to Pete Rose in 1989 -- it destroys the reputation of one of baseball's most accomplished players. Whether Bonds never hits another home run or hits 48 more, which would give him the most of all time, he never can be regarded with honor or full legitimacy. Shadows painstakingly catalogs him as a serial drug cheat, and thus the eye-popping stats that he has accrued stand all too literally as too good to be true. "
MattW
QUOTE(emgee @ Mar 7 2006, 09:49 PM) [snapback]37891[/snapback]

And so will fans in every other city. Let's face it. The home run is the highlight of any trip to the ballpark and people pay good mony to see them. To take it one step further, before the steroid allegations McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were credited with saving the game after an ugly strike led many fans to turn their back on the sport. We heard discussions about " a new live ball" and "McGwire's/Sosa's athleticism. It was all bullshit, but Bud Selig had no reason to raise a red flag.
Fans were filling the seats and night after night homers were flying out of the park at a rate never seen before..
In no way can I condone with what happened here and it's a shame that every record in the 90s will have an asterisks next to it (except for Ripken's). Major League Baseball had a chance to do the right thing and demand more frequent testing. They chose to do the opposite and the result led to some of the most impressive displays of hitting this game will ever see.
Opposing fans will Boo Bonds until the he can't hear anymore, but the as soon as he puts another longball into SF bay, they will only be able to say one thing, "wow." Sad, but true. That is, of course, if he ever plays again and my money says he will have a career ending knee injury in a matter of days.


Has anyone ever seen a game with Bonds? The drama that the park senses when he comes to the plate is probably as close as baseball comes to a gladiator dueling with a lion in the coliseum. It's not just because he hits home runs, it's because he can drive pitcher's pitches. Even when he came back at the end of last season after (purely speculation) he got clean he was hitting curveballs that didn't hang, strike 3 sliders, and high hard fastballs.

Say what you will about his steroid use, but he still got the best ability to put a decent swing on a good pitch I've ever seen. Only Vlad Guerrero comes close.

Ben
MLB's hands are so dirty here it's shocking. This was reported by Bill Pennington in the New York Times on August 2, 2005, the day of Palmiero's 10 day suspension, and didn't even make much of a splash:
QUOTE
Three people in baseball with direct knowledge of the drug-testing program said yesterday that Major League Baseball was aware early last month that Palmeiro had failed a steroid test as he neared the career milestone of 3,000 hits. When Palmeiro collected his 3,000th hit on July 15, Major League Baseball paid for full-page congratulatory newspaper advertisements.

The three people did not want to be identified because the testing policy prohibits anyone in baseball from disclosing information about test results without authorization.
Full story

I've been a guy eager to stand up and declare Barry Bonds one of the best players to ever play over the past five years, but if all of this is true I have no problem repudiating my previous statements. Perhaps I was naive, but until things came to a head last year I believed that people deserved the benefit of the doubt. Sure, old timers were all on speed pills, etc., but this is different. And the deception exacerbates the problem. I never saw Hank Aaron play, but nothing should go down like this.

Despite that I am still sympathetic to the circumstances that would encourage a poor Dominican kid or a striving minor leaguer to pull a pill or ride a needle for a shot at wealth and glory. It's MLBs lack of leadership that riles me.
tjenz
there is no denying that Bonds was one hell of a player, pre-roids. If he never took roids, he would be a first year Hall of Famer, easily
At this point, I say he's lucky if he ever gets in
NumberTenOx
QUOTE(Ben @ Mar 8 2006, 09:14 AM) [snapback]38145[/snapback]

It's MLBs lack of leadership that really riles me.


This is 100% OTM. Bud is terrible. (I don't like the Commisoner, either...)
crease
QUOTE(Ben @ Mar 8 2006, 09:14 AM) [snapback]38145[/snapback]

Despite that I am still sympathetic to the circumstances that would encourage a poor Dominican kid or a striving minor leaguer to pull a pill or ride a needle for a shot at wealth and glory. It's MLBs lack of leadership that riles me.

I don't understand this. Why would you be sympathetic to anyone compromising the integrity of the game? What do humble beginnings have to do with it?
Dag Nasty
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]38136[/snapback]

Has anyone ever seen a game with Bonds? The drama that the park senses when he comes to the plate...


Yeah, I've seen him play & he was awesome. This was before his skull grew and he swelled up like a boil - back when he was stealing bases and, like you said, driving pitches all over the field and patrolling the outfield well, too. He was a total package player, no doubt...beautiful athletic ability. Unfortunately, I'm finding it way too easy to dismiss all of that, though, with these years of speculation about his cheating and his theft of legitimate MLB records. I don't want him to pass Ruth. I want him to retire, ashamed & angry. That this doping book story occupied the 5 back-pages of a Chicago sports section hints to a massive, massive interest in seeing this guy deposed and excommunicated from the game....good riddance. As for the timing, I couldn't give a rat's ass about the WBC but that it's overshadowing Puckett's passing is regrettable...
Ben
QUOTE(crease @ Mar 8 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]38172[/snapback]

I don't understand this. Why would you be sympathetic to anyone compromising the integrity of the game? What do humble beginnings have to do with it?
For the same reasons I wasn't all that upset to learn that Juan Cruz was older than his officially stated age. I put myself in the shoes of a 15 year old kid coming out of a dust park on a tropical output of the Third World. And I sense desperation. And I see few other opportunities. And then I pick up the New York Times I see zero moral education or leadership by those the arbiters of the game, who I think are responsible to uphold its meritocratic principles if they are to continue profiting by them. They've been sending the message that this is okay as long as we all get rich together (especially them).

Barry Bonds is a different story, of course. He was already a Hall of Famer when he alledgedly began popping.
velocity
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 07:06 AM) [snapback]38136[/snapback]

Has anyone ever seen a game with Bonds? The drama that the park senses when he comes to the plate is probably as close as baseball comes to a gladiator dueling with a lion in the coliseum. It's not just because he hits home runs, it's because he can drive pitcher's pitches. Even when he came back at the end of last season after (purely speculation) he got clean he was hitting curveballs that didn't hang, strike 3 sliders, and high hard fastballs.

Say what you will about his steroid use, but he still got the best ability to put a decent swing on a good pitch I've ever seen. Only Vlad Guerrero comes close.

Not to mention his record number of walks. He's got great eyes--nothing artificial about that.
MCF
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 09:06 AM) [snapback]38136[/snapback]

Has anyone ever seen a game with Bonds? The drama that the park senses when he comes to the plate is probably as close as baseball comes to a gladiator dueling with a lion in the coliseum. It's not just because he hits home runs, it's because he can drive pitcher's pitches. Even when he came back at the end of last season after (purely speculation) he got clean he was hitting curveballs that didn't hang, strike 3 sliders, and high hard fastballs.

Say what you will about his steroid use, but he still got the best ability to put a decent swing on a good pitch I've ever seen. Only Vlad Guerrero comes close.


But what about bat speed? And, according to the article: improved eyesight? But, I can't argue with you, he was a great player. Not anymore, though.
MattW
QUOTE(crease @ Mar 8 2006, 11:30 AM) [snapback]38172[/snapback]

I don't understand this. Why would you be sympathetic to anyone compromising the integrity of the game? What do humble beginnings have to do with it?


When you have one shot to prove to a scout you can play to get you and your loved ones out of an impoverished existence in a third world country for the rest your (likely to be shorter) life. In addition to that, your job isn't working in some substandard operation getting paid less than minimum wage for 50-70 hours per week going from the very bottom wrung to the a step or two above, I can understand why someone might backseat the "integrity of the game".

QUOTE(MCF @ Mar 8 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]38198[/snapback]

But what about bat speed? And, according to the article: improved eyesight? But, I can't argue with you, he was a great player. Not anymore, though.


Bat speed means nothing if you don't get a swing on the ball.

Great, now I'm defending him. I withdraw from this discussion.
MCF
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 09:55 AM) [snapback]38199[/snapback]

Bat speed means nothing if you don't get a swing on the ball.


MattW: this makes little sense. Did you mean to say:

Bat speed means everything while swinging at a ball?
crease
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 09:55 AM) [snapback]38199[/snapback]

When you have one shot to prove to a scout you can play to get you and your loved ones out of an impoverished existence in a third world country for the rest your (likely to be shorter) life. In addition to that, your job isn't working in some substandard operation getting paid less than minimum wage for 50-70 hours per week going from the very bottom wrung to the a step or two above, I can understand why someone might backseat the "integrity of the game".
Bat speed means nothing if you don't get a swing on the ball.

Great, now I'm defending him. I withdraw from this discussion.

Well, thanks for the economics lesson, professor. And thanks for making it crystal clear that this is butt naked moral relativism we're talking about. So...if I'm understanding you...it's ok to cheat in situations where you'd face really long odds if you didn't cheat....right?
MattW
No, you can't hit a Jon Lieber sinker or a Curt Schilling splitter by relying on your bat speed.

QUOTE(crease @ Mar 8 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]38206[/snapback]

Well, thanks for the economics lesson, professor. And thanks for making it crystal clear that this is butt naked moral relativism we're talking about. So...if I'm understanding you...it's ok to cheat in situations where you'd face really long odds if you didn't cheat....right?


I'm just saying these people are facing situations more dire than you or I have ever experienced. Who are we to judge them because I don't know what I'd do?
crease
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]38208[/snapback]

No, you can't hit a Jon Lieber sinker or a Curt Schilling splitter by relying on your bat speed.
I'm just saying these people are facing situations more dire than you or I have ever experienced. Who are we to judge them because I don't know what I'd do?

And I'm just saying that I find your reasoning totally lame.
Dag Nasty
QUOTE(crease @ Mar 8 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]38206[/snapback]

...it's ok to cheat in situations where you'd face really long odds if you didn't cheat....right?


Nicely done...
MattW
QUOTE(crease @ Mar 8 2006, 12:10 PM) [snapback]38211[/snapback]

And I'm just saying that I find your reasoning totally lame.


Then I find your perspective totally lame.
sin city
I had a hard time getting into Harvard because, quite frankly, I'm not smart enough. So I stole an SAT test and got close to a perfect score and got in! That's ok, right?
MCF
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]38208[/snapback]

No, you can't hit a Jon Lieber sinker or a Curt Schilling splitter by relying on your bat speed.


Um, yes you can. I don't like picking SOMB fight, but I have to say MattW you are making little to no sense today in this thread.

Your argument about bat speed is beyond reason and I will address it no more...
crease
QUOTE(sin city @ Mar 8 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]38243[/snapback]

I had a hard time getting into Harvard because, quite frankly, I'm not smart enough. So I stole an SAT test and got close to a perfect score and got in! That's ok, right?

You did what you had to do. Not that there's anything wrong with that. dry.gif
Ben
I never said there wasn't anything wrong with it. I said I was sympathetic. And I think it's a misdirection of your anger to completely blame the player under those circumstances when I believe plenty of responsibility (and fault) can be found in the actions of MLB, or lack thereof. How is a kid whose never been exposed to the ethics of athletics, and who is given messages contradicting them by the people he aspires to impress and emulate, supposed to make the right decision? Particularly when there's so much incentive to go with the flow.

I think I was clear about that.

And, again, Bonds is different.
MattW
None of us have ever experienced the level of poverty most people in the Dominican, Venezuela, Cuba, etc have. I'm not condoning anything, I'd prefer baseball to be steroid free. I just think it's crass of you guys to pass judgment on others' actions when our idea of desperation is being forced to connect to the internet by dial up.
Complain
QUOTE(velocity @ Mar 8 2006, 10:53 AM) [snapback]38197[/snapback]

Not to mention his record number of walks. He's got great eyes--nothing artificial about that.



Actually, according to most reports, HGH and steroids improves eyesight as well.
NumberTenOx
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 10:48 AM) [snapback]38260[/snapback]

I just think it's crass of you guys to pass judgment on others' actions when our idea of desperation is being forced to connect to the internet by dial up.


ohmy.gif

Dag Nasty
QUOTE(MattW @ Mar 8 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]38260[/snapback]

I just think it's crass of you guys to pass judgment on others' actions when our idea of desperation is being forced to connect to the internet by dial up.


By that logic only poor, disadvantaged folks can comment on the morality of poor, disadvantaged folks, eh? Hmmmm...I guess he was right, after all: some animals are more equal than others! Cheating is cheating, dude, no matter the backdrop it's painted against or whatever circumstances cause it.
birdistheword
Yeah, Bonds was a sure HOF candidate BEFORE 1998. Had he retired after that year, his numbers still would've held up (I'd have to take another look to be sure, but I think they would). The comic nerd in me likens this to Superman getting the Green Lantern's ring.

Think of all the accomplishments that are now tainted. Obviously he got more power, but the article claims that Bonds had trouble tracking pitches (maybe age was catching up), but noticed an improvement in his eyesight after taking the drugs. So if he was hitting better as well as hitting with more power, pitchers would obviously walk him more. So that stat gets a boost.

Of course we may never get the positive test required to penalize Bonds. Some of the drugs were meant to escape detection, even then there was little or no testing, and he had plenty of time to stop taking them after the new testing rules were applied.
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