I walked down the street from DePaul for lunch. There was a huge immigration protest. I read about it after I saw the protest. A lot of people. Not sure how I feel about this protest.

If I ever have a radio show, I am so not gonna interview you.

Well, I wasn't sure exactly what the protest was about. Now I know: illegal immigration. Here's my opinion. I believe in legal immigration, but people coming here illegally needs to stop.

They've been marching down Jackson for almost two hours. We can't even leave the building. Holy shit.

Yep. I work on Ashland near Lake. It started there at Union Park and the march is going east on Washington to Daley Center. (Or is Intonation earlier than expected) LOL

Waves upon waves of people rolling in.

My guess........this will be a lot bigger than they anticipated.

They are busing people in as well.

Sumpin tells me I aint gone catch me no Ashland 9 bus this afternoon anytime soon.

Given the way our country operates? If we don't change the way in which we approach labor and the rights of "non-citizens" we'll never get anywhere. The whole kick em out bullshit doesn't have a leg to stand on. We're talking about generations of people who've lived here now. Children who are born, bred and educated in the good old U.S. of A. and you're telling me we should send em packing cause their folks weren't of legal status? Gimme a break. No gringo's are inteersted in cleaning peoples houses or diggin ditches much less carving the cows we eat at the slaughter houses. You want to see the faces of people who bust their asses everyday in this country to live get a taste of the american dream? I'll give you a hint-They aren't white.

Nice one.

I never said kick them out. I just think the current situation is a problem. Look at all the people who come here legally. They often have to wait for years. They're not sneaking over.

The companies hiring illegals and paying them a pittance should be held accountable. At least pay them minimum wage.

The reason they sneak over is because:

a. The system is so complicated that nobody understands it.
b. The INS workers are so fucking mean and stupid that you don't want to deal with them (and the Chicago office has the highest complaint rate in the nation)
c. The enforcement system doesn't work. They can sneak in.

What would you fix? a & b, or c?

But the country's over abundance of people should be cordoned off. The borders leak like a sieve and no one's doing anything about it, either.

Not saying kick those that are here now out (to a degree it should be done, but not en masse), but the government needs to get off its ass and figure out who deserves to stay and who doesn't.

Legalize people fer chrissakes if they're going to work here. But the government won't because of the lobbyists ensuring cheap labor in the states with the illegals. Little businesses (restaurants and such) need illegals.

The whole thing is fucking whacked all to hell.

About the only thing I'll agree with is the need for assimilation and the need for English to be written and spoken. It's another form of coddling.

So there are more people marching down Washington? Wow. This is huge.

I'd fix all three. Make the system easier to understand. Hire smarter and nicer INS workers. I know easier said than done, but still could be fixed.




Exactly. Excellent post. I agree 100%.

Any illegal who commits a crime should get hardcore prison time as well. Let the ones here stay, and control the borders.

How?



Too many politics. Politicians have no spine when it comes to immigration policy. We've only changed immigration rules when there was a crisis (9/11, Communists fighting facists, etc)



OTM.



Since 1 in 5 Americans is hispanic, I don't think this is "coddling". How else are Hispanics supposed to market to other Hispanics? Smoke signals?

My guess is they're not starving either but if the means are available to those who can. I'd hardly see it as a situation where we won't oblige people. Current Cuban rules are ridiculous: If they reach land, we let em in. If we catch em in the water, we send em back.

You want to talk about a country that is struggling to exist and we're the one country that has excelled for generations of immigrants that's suddenly having an issue with dealing it's population. Putting up a wall on our border isn't a sign of being 'Home of the Brave' much less dealing with reality.

edit- I read in the trib they're expecting 40K + to demonstrate on the streets today.

Of course politicians are spineless and government is corrupt. I didn't think I needed to overstate the point that the Government needed to take care of the jobs they are supposed to be taking care of. This is the problem I have with our government. They worry about all of the bullshit that they shouldn't be and next to nothing about what they should be worrying about, such as infrastructure and safety and crime and such. It's all band-aid bullshit and it's tiring to deal with.

Look, all the Italians, Asians and such had to assimilate to get anywhere. I understand there are a lot of Hispanics here, but that doesn't mean they just automatically get to change the whole landscape of the nation. It's sort of a slap in the face to all the other hard-working foreigners who came to this country, assimilated and became "American" before them. But because the Hispanic boom happened in the age of political correctness, you get this bullshit coddling where everyone is supposed to accept Spanish as the second language. If I were Asian, I'd be pissed off that my language isn't accepted and then where are we? Do we plant fifteen different languages on the fucking gallon of milk you get at the store? Or at the pump to get gas? Or at a restaurant? What if the 1/3 percent that speak some sort of language no one knows gets offended? I sound like a lunatic and the liberal fuckwiths are gonna have a field day with this post, but it's just insulting to every foreigner that became American and made sure that they assimilated and learned the language.

Keep your culture for sure, speak whatever language you want, but at least be able to read, comprehend and speak English.

This goes for the fucking illiterates out there, too! You motherfuckers are dragging us down.

And what evidence do you have, praytell, that Hispanics don't assimilate into American culture? Pretty much every generation born here ends up speaking English.

However, did you not notice the last election? It wasn't just Spanish on the ballots. You also had Polish and Chinese. I don't understand all the animosity towards them or speaking English. If this country becomes bilingual, sobeit. Who cares?

edit: And here's a source for my first claim



(emphasis added).

judging by the number of people on jackson alone for that length of time, people around here have estimated as high as 500K to a million. i mean, there were like two gaps in protesters in two hours, otherwise it's wall-to-wall, dick-to-ass over here.

I don't recall the last election's ballot, in all honesty.

Uh, the country's main language has always been English. Every other foreign body that has become a citizen has known that to get anywhere you have to know English. Why the need for a bilingual country?

And I take issue with your suggestion that people end up all speaking English. In schools with a high percentage of Hispanics, English speaking kids are practically left behind because the teacher has to cater to teaching in two fucking languages. I know this one first hand. I've lived in enough neighborhoods with a large Hispanic population and they seem ecstatic by the notion that they are able to insulate themselves into their own little countries within ours.

I'm not saying people should be rounded up and sent back, I'm not saying that foreigners have no right to come to the States and do the work no one else wants (what will people do when they don't want to do this shit, though? a problem no person or politician ever wants to ask), and make a life for themselves and hopefully move up and obtain better lives.

But I just feel very strongly that English be the one language we all adopt. Again, I'm not asking people to abandon their culture, or to forget their own language, just let English be the national language.

why not? every other country in the world speaks english. why can't we learn a few languages?

Well, if it wasn't for immigration the United States population would be shrinking. Illegal immigrants pay into social security and won't get any benefits. They also pay rent, so that means they pay for the property taxes that help pay public schools. Denying their children an education will only create a permanent underclass and turn this country into Brazil.
It's based on a new law that would make it a federal crime to know of illegal immigrants and not report them. It would be be a federal crime to be an illegal immigrant. Cops would be given the power to arrest someone if they're an illegal immigrant. Children born in the US from Illegals wouldn't be citizens (I think this is unconstitutional?).
Chicago was built on the backs of immigrants. the trains, the buildings, the factorys, the stockyards, the parks, the river, the cans and even the streets. Nothing's changed. Guess who's building all the new condos going up all over the city? I wonder how much they would cost if all the workers weren't mexican and polish.
They don't choose to be illegal, if our immigration wasn't such a crap beraucracy. They wouldn't have to cross the border illegally. But it's not convenient for people to make them illegal. It would be harder to take advantage of them. Everyone is pretty much ok with the system, but it's antithetical to the ideals of the republic. It's basically legislating a second-class status to large group of people.


I'm reminded of that quote from Fight Club.
"We do your laundry, cook your food and serve you dinner. We guard you while you sleep. We drive your ambulances. Do not fuck with us!"

I guess this march is a little taste of what immigrants are capable off when they flex their political muscle.

i can hear the protesters from my desk and i sit nowhere near a window.

And, what, you haven't seen this with our Korean, Polish, Chinese, etc., neighborhoods? Chicago has plenty of examples of "little countries" within its borders. My grandfather has lived here over 40 years and I've never heard him speak a word of English. My folks speak okay English now, but growing up, I almost never heard them talk the language, much less read it. Yet they get by. And apparently the government didn't give a shit that my dad didn't didn't speak English when they took him into Vietnam.

I just don't understand all this animosity. This is a country of little countries. They all eventually assimilate. They all eventually become English speakers--maybe not the first generation, but the second. What's the fear here?

There is no law that I know of that says the official language of the US is English. And the times that's been tried, it's been shot down.

On the other side, the B&B (Bilingualisim Bicultualism) thing in Canada has its share of nightmares as well. But I think people may wayyyyyy too much fuss about English being the 'official' language. I think we have a lot of other stuff to worry about... like actually being able to read the stuff that supposedly 'native' English speakers write.

Amen. Our next door neighbors barely speak English...you can understand about every 3rd word...doesn't mean they aren't great neighbors, good community members, and good people. They legally emigrated from Poland after WWII but anyone who knows them couldn't care less.

Watch the news...I'd imagine the Polish/Irish/Chinese/whoever element will be played down and the Latinos will bear the brunt of the backlash here...Fear of brown people. Some of the conservative blogs are already treating this in a racist manner, I'm sure FoxNews' coverage will be no different.

I was in bilingual education in grade school, I speak decent spanish because of it. It helped me immensely when I visited Latin American (I could more or less blend in). It didn't hurt my english skills, I scored a 35 on the reading portion of the ACT. Same with the English portion meaning I did better than 99% of kids born in the US and they had an eight year head start (I didn't take all english classes until the 3rd grade).
Kids in Europe learn at least two languages, sometimes more. Their native language, english and their neighbors language. If you've ever tried to learn a new language, you'd realize how hard it is.
"I know this first hand" because I was that kid in that neighborhood you lived in and I wasn't the only one who knew English. Actually, not really I grew up in Lakeview (It used to be more diverse). But you could make the the same argument about how homosexuals were ecstatic made their own little "country" to insulate themselves from the prejudice of others. That's how this country works.
People will learn english, that's the least of our problems. Maybe not the 1st generation, but their kids will, they'll pick it up on TV and in school. I just don't see how speaking two languages in school will cripple someone, in the long run I think it will help. But it's a typical american view, but just take it from someone who actually experienced
I have a lot of respect for my parents, what they did took guts and desperation. I don't know if I would be able to do the same thing, luckily I won't have to. We moved here in '89 and by 94 we had a downpayment for a mortgage on house in roscoe village, they were 28-29. They don't owe anyone anything, all they asked was an opporturnity to prove themselves and work.
My family told me how my dad would go out in the morning with his tool box and ask everyone in the neighborhood if they needed anything fixed. He'd find something and come back and give the money to my mom to buy food and then finish the work. He was basically a licensed electrician and he still couldn't find work. He never told me any of it, but I understand why he wanted to leave, that's just no way to go through life. Especially when you're 24, married and have a kid.
My dad never taled about it and he never asked for any hand outs and we never expected them, I guess he just wanted people to stay out of his way and let him work. I mean, how American is that attitude? I think you'd find that each immigrant has a story similar to that, the ones that decide to move halfway across the world to work shit jobs for years until you pay your dues and move up slightly. They're not bums, most of the bums stayed in their country.

It's only difficult if you don't acquire during your natural language acquisition period (I don't know how long that lasts). Kids are sponges for information and have no problems learning. However, the older you get, the harder it becomes. If you live around the language, you learn it. I grew up in a Polish-exclusive household, but I ended up learning English by watching TV and interacting with kids. Honestly, I don't know how I could communicate when I went to kindergarten, as my parents never taught me a word of English. It's just something I picked up.

That's why, I feel, whether you like it or not, if you're born in America, you'll end up learning English. It's impossible not to as a kid. I knew one four-year-old in Budapest who was the daughter of an Albanian Kosovar refugee. She efforlessly spoke Serbian, Albanian, Hungarian, and--after we started handing around her flat--English. I mean, it's seriously amazing what a child's brain can do in those formative years.

I agree w/ Hickman to a certain extent. If I moved to Mexico I would make sure my Spanish was tip-top. Why can't we get the same courtesy?

I agree everyone should be taught another (or more) language(s).

If you moved to Mexico & lived in an American Expat colony, where everyone spoke at least a little English, would you really try that hard to learn Spanish? Or have much chance to practice?

Have you been to Mexico?
In some places you won't hear a lick of spanish except for the waiter and busboy (That sounds familiar) and in other places people don't even know spanish or english. You better bust out your Maya to English dictionary there. It all depends on where you move, like in the United States. Have you been to Miami lately? My aunt tells me everyone knows a bit of spanish there, I mean everyone. White people, black people, asian people.
Same with LA, I think they're creating their own dialect there. A mix of spanglish/tagalog and ebonics slang, spoken by young latinos, asians, blacks and some wiggers. Eventually it will be turn into what Edward James Olmos spoke in Blade Runner.

This is great in theory, but what why do you think these people are coming to America? Most come to give their kids a better chance. Schools in rural Mexico aren't too well known for their foreign language departments.

I think the biggest problem with our immigration policy isn't protecting the borders or tracking the illegals, it's that we haven't put enough pressure on the Mexican government to end the corruption that has existed for generations. If you think the U.S. is a nation of haves and have-nots, visit Mexico sometime. Their have-nots make ours look like Donald Trump.

Until the poor in Mexico have some hope of a better life in Mexico, they will continue to seek it here, much in the same way the Irish, French, Polish, Germans and others did a century ago.

I can testify to this. I had moved and lived in an expat community in Hungary for five years, and it was really difficult for me to pick up the language--even though I dated a Hungarian girl for over three years. Sure, I picked up a lot, anyway, but I still talk like shit even though I understand quite a bit. It's not somehow a uniquely Hispanic-in-America phenomenon. It exists anywhere in the world there is an expat community.

I'm at LaSalle & Madison. My coworker was just outside trying to park a car and told me it was a zoo. Can't see anything out my windows though. Leaving at 5:30, I'll have to check it out. (Or not)



Not sure exactly how I feel about that statement...

I think demographics show the the mexican population will stop growing within a few decades, so the population will pretty much equalize. The way the money is concentrated in small group is obscene, since it's not a poor country by any stretch. It's just a very corrupt one.

You're right. Not everyone is an immigrant.

Well, I mean, in a way he's correct (Daley), but it also reads like one of his absurdly ignorant remarks he's known so well for.

The protest is in reference to efforts to quash illegal immigration, correct? If so, Daley is crazy for saying that. There are plenty of foreign immigrants who came to this country, joined the system for lack of a better term, became legal citizens and paid and pay their debts to the country. It's a totally different thing than being here illegally and working below minimum wage with no taxes.

All I know is my L ride home was miserable. The train has never been so crowded. And no dental insurance for these people. Fucking hell, I've lost my appetite for a week.

Ah. Not so bad down Ashland. Usually 12 minutes. This time 20.


Snuck in just before the flood.

picture my friend matt took from his office this afternoon:

We need to do something


that whole argument that they do the jobs we wont do isn't 100% true anymore

I don't know about Chicago

but here in Cali the illegals are not all picking fruit

now they're builing houses and other good construction jobs
roofing, landscaping, painting etc

I know legal mexicans that are pissed. My good friend has been a painter his whole life working for his dad and such but now all the big jobs they use to get are taken by contractors who hire a team of illegals 3-5 guys to do the job cheaper then 2 legal citizens can do the work and make a dollar

same thing with some friends I know that are in construction

contactors can get a team of illegals at the drop of the hat that are happy to do the job for 1/2 the going rate

ohh and the dipshits in charge here want to give the illegals drivers licenses? wtf kind of sense is that

not even supposed to be here but since your going to be lets make sure you drive legally


ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I wonder what sort of ire I would have brought out had I said something actually far more strident. Fucking hell.






There seems to be far more animosity in this particular post than in anything I said.

Go back and re-read what I said, perhaps. Was there ire? No. I understand that other generations eventually fully embrace English, but what I was more driving at is the fact that Spanish is being placed everywhere in addition to English. I don't think that's necessary. I understand it's not easy to learn a new language right on, or perhaps even in a lifetime. But should these steps to basically begin supplanting English be in place? Because, until say, ten years ago, you wouldn't find much, if any, Spanish on any product or in any place save for certain communities. But now a very large percentage of businesses, products and such have English and Spanish plastered on them. Why? Why now? Because it's easy? I'm not really going to belabor the point, but it's not ire and it's not fear. It's bewilderment that Spanish is the one that's being allowed to co-exist or supplant English simply because the borders are spilling over with people from Hispanic countries whose government's haven't a clue how to make their homeland work enough to keep them there.

I'm not saying no illegals, I'm not saying send them all back, I'm not saying imprisonment or whatever. If you go back to my first post, you'll see the ideas I propose are actually quite forward thinking. All I believe is that English is the American language, by and large, and there shouldn't be a need for Spanish to co-exist as a secondary language.

Granted, I am a little irritated in that post, but I hardly think I'm angry, either. At any rate, I didn't intend to direct the animosity line at you, personally. I'm talking about people in general with their English-only and often anti-Hispanic rhetoric.






Umm...because it's a good business decision? See, this is one argument that I just don't understand. Is anyone requiring them to put Spanish on their products? Hell, if I'm a company and including packaging in Malayalam moves more inventory, you bet I'm gonna do it.

That's just good business sense, not some sort of coup of the language. Just like that whole stupid "Merry Christmas"/"Happy Holidays" bullshit. Some deparment stores decided to greet their customers in the more neutral manner in order to feel more inclusive. Strictly business. This was no cultural conspiracy against Christmas, just a way in order to make their customers equally welcome. (Not that I necessarily think "Merry Christmas" would drive away customers, but this is why it was done--somebody thought "Happy Holidays" would make more people feel at home.)






Yes, English is the de facto language of the US and its government but, as I'm sure you're aware, there is no official language in the US. The only reason I hesitate for a full-fledged bilingual United States are the costs involved. I have no problem declaring English the official language of the government, but, whether you or anyone likes it or not, Spanish is the significant minority language and won't be going away anytime soon. Plenty of countries get by in multi-lingual states. I see no reason the US can't do the same.

I completely agree with Binko on this, it's not that people of hispanic/Latino descent are demanding Spanish labels to be everywhere, it's more the companies catering to them since they figure they compose a considerable portion of their consumers. I myself am of Mexican descent and while I agree that things went by slowly in 1st-3rd grades because of the bilingual thing, at least I know how to speak Spanish fluently now. Since I knew how to speak, read and write English well already they gave my mother the option of placing me in an all English section but she decided to keep me in bilingual so that I could master two languages. It wasn't a detriment at all, I still got to go to a Chicago college prep HS, and graduated with a 3.9 unweighted...

I wasn't blaming Hispanics. My very point was the willingness to just bend over backwards to do it and to just let it happen. It's a larger problem I have with the government and corporations, I suppose. This isn't really anger at Hispanics in particular.

I mean, America used to force the need for assimilation through questionable means. I'm not advocating that, just...fuck I don't know. It's just something that bugs me. I'm not on here advocating hatred of anyone or any race. Just irritated that by the sheer fact that foreigners can pour into the country and begin changing the whole fabric of the country in doing so with that and over-population (which then gets into that whole Hispanics=Catholic in the majority and is then a whole other fucking issue to deal with).

You're still not making any sense. How are the corporations "bending over backwards"? Dude, some marketing guy just had the idea "Hey, if we put Spanish labeling on our products, we'll sell more." That's not bending over backwards--that's following the dollar.

Dude, INS. They're in the phonebook.

So why can't they do that with other nationalities, then?

And since when is following the dollar excusable around these parts? I don't understand the "it's okay here and it's not here but then it's okay here again."

I'm sort of done with this. At least here on this board.

Again, you'd think I advocated for the gassing of non-whites or something here. I'm sure in some of your uber-liberal minds that's actually what I'm saying. If that's what you think, then nothing I can say will change it, so go right on thinking that I'm some sort of zionist.

I totally get what youre saying, some people don't learn the language. It pisses me off sometimes because how an you live here 16 years and not now it by now? There free classes everywhere.
I live in a Polish neighborhood now and I have to deal with that too. It does get frustrating, but you can't force people to learn a new language. It's only a problem for a generation, in the long run. Hispanics have the highest rates of marrying someone from a different race. We just wont be able to see the change happen.

We haven't only had changes in immigration laws after 9/11 and while "fighting fascists". Ever hear of the Chinese Exclusion Act? "Open and tollerant" SanFransisco saw the earthquake and fire in the early 20th century as an oportunity to rid the city of the Chinese. The city was pursuaded with the promise that there would be a little China town built with Chinese looking buildings that would draw tourists.

Also there were many restrictions on European immigrants over complaints that they take jobs. It kept many would-be-refugees of the 1930s in Europe where they ended up in ovens in the 1940s. The Nazis tried to deport the unwanted before they turned to killing them.


Mexicans aren't the first to be a large dominant non-English community. The Germans were very proud of being German and flew German flags like the Mexicans do now. During the War Between the States there were German speaking units in the Union Army. There were statues of the Kaiser in Chicago in the early 20th century. With WWI and especially WWII, German pride wasn't all that popular anymore.

As for what people speak, so what? Do you have a right to know what they are saying? I'm not saying they should get a job that requires English, but if they keep to themselves and their immigrant community, then so what?

We won't have to have every language posted everywhere. Only those that are significantly large will be used, Let the market decide what languages are important. Don't be like Canada and force 2 languages. As for packaging, it seems to me that there is more French on packaging than any other non-English language.


We should learn additional languages. Unfortunately our schools do everything ass-backwards and begins second languages in HighSchool, after the brain has developed beyond the stage of easy learning. It's pretty much a waste by that time. Being monolingual countries, the US and UK are going to be outcompeted for many jobs that require multiple languages. There are already more English speaking people in China and India than in the US, UK and Canada.


My feeling about all immigrants is that if you are here for peaceful purposes and aren't causing trouble, then ok. But no government benefits to the illegals (and every one else). I don't care if some don't pay income taxes. (Actually, I hope they don't.) I have hired and paid people (Anglos and non) in cash. I doubt they pay tax on it.

BTW, some of the Hispanics I see act about as Hispanic as someone of Swedish decent from Minnesota.