i'd take out Thin Air and Soon Forget too

i'd be with you on that. fatal is much better than thin air.

YES. 100%

Stone doesn't have the best track record with ballads in my book... Thin Air & Parachutes (the latter is quite a bit better tho)

can we also agree that the vast majority of the songs on that album sound WAY better live. who remembers hearing Grievance live on Lettermen and then get Binaural and wondering what happened?

Nah, that's the one album PJ made where they took some chances in the studio and really used the studio as another instrument. They should have been taking more chances like that.

And also, "Thin Air" isn't that bad. "Soon Forget" is kinda shitty though. But there's a certain charm to it. I honestly wouldn't have minded Binaural just being PJ's "everything but the kitchen sink" album where they released a bunch of songs that maybe lacked cohesion but were all interesting. Binaural would have been better served as a longer album that utilized that mentality.

Cool interview with Cameron Crowe about PJ20.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?42nbwkg102d2bvn

I've been meaning to post here for a while.

A couple of weeks ago I broke out the Singles soundtrack, and I was reminded of something someone said here, (that I don't feel like looking up).

Basically there was some sort of charge levelled at Stone and Jeff that they had certainly made plenty of "missteps" during the MLB days, and maybe they were better off having Eddie take over a lot of the control.

I'd just like to say that, while MLB had plenty of missteps I don't think any of them had anything to do with the music. As a perfect "10"'er (I believe Ten was perfect, everything else is flawed, the new stuff is boring), I think Jeff/Stone on music and Eddie on lyrics was probably a better setup for them.

eh. they did better stuff after ten, admirable of a record as it is.

singles is a great soundtrack though.

Heard Eddie on PJ radio saying "of the earth" might never show up on a PJ studio album.
Sometimes this band confounds me.

They've made some poor choices about what does and does not end up on their albums in the past. No question.

Yeah, but I know they've tried to record OTE for a couple of records now, and it's never come out the way they wanted. I'm fine with it being a live song only. It's not like it's radio-friendly or anything.

doesnt radiohead do this too?

I've only listened to Of The Earth a handful of times b/c I guess I'm "saving" it for when it comes out on a studio album. But I listened to it again yesterday - loud, with headphones - and I'm absolutely convinced it's the best thing they've done in years.

It really showcases their musicianship and is more adventurous than anything they've done since probably Binaural. In fact, I think it would really benefit from a darker, Binaural-style production. They fucking better put this on the next record.

That Crowe doc, while entertaining in spots, was still pretty dull and underlined my aggravations with the band. I like their music, they seem like decent guys and I admire them for what they've done, but I don't find myself caring much about what they do, who they are or what their values as a band are. I thought the film's treatment of the drummer situation was fairly snide in its dismissiveness as well. Again, good band, some great songs in that catalog, respect for their work / business ethic, but nothing about them has ever added up to the need to elevate them to iconic status.

I enjoyed the documentary, and there was a time when I really thought they could be a GREAT band (around the time of Vitalogy). But they never delivered on that promise. To my ears there's very little that's truly great about them. I found the documentary interesting in its moments of highlighting the huge band versus the little band Vedder thought and wanted them to be. Their discography doesn't really jive with their reputation and status as a major band.

i dunno, man. 4 consecutive classic albums and sizable cultural impact equals something close to greatness. have they endured as well as i'd like? no. but i'm not sure they were built to stick around this long either

All their records have gone gold or higher, too. They sell out arenas. I think that constitutes them as a major band.

I was disappointed that Dave A. didn't get a chance to speak in the film, or at least have it on record once and for all why he was kicked out. Part of what made the Foo Fighters documentary interesting was that the people who had left got a chance to tell their side of the story. The vast majority of the people out there don't know why Dave was asked to leave, and this would have been the time to address that. (The book 'Five Against One' does a decent job of explaining this, with tons of stories from Dave. It's not an "official" biography, but it covers up until 1998 pretty well.)

We've talked about this before, but all those guys wanted to be rock stars at the beginning. But after everything blew up, I really don't think they realized all the other things that go with being a huge band (press, crazy fans, media demands, etc.). It could be argued they should have known that before they chose to sign the contract, but that's hindsight. (I think the original deal with Sony/Epic was for ten albums, which is mind-boggling these days) And soon there was inter-band tension, McCready's substance abusing picked up, and Dave A. just wanted to enjoy being in a band who was selling millions of records and the perks that came with that. For a band struggling with an identity, this was a major problem. I'm not so sure it was "artistic" differences more than it was Jeff and Ed disliking the guy on a personal level. He was an outsider from the beginning, who the rest of the band didn't know much about before he joined. In some ways, he was the scapegoat and I don't think the band's music has been the same since he left. Like Ed says in the film, the drummer is the heart of the band, and they lost something when he left, I feel. Jack Irons and Matt Cameron are great drummers, don't get me wrong, but they are/were a much different band live going back and hearing bootlegs. To each his own, I guess.

One last anecdote here: When Dave was fired by Stone, Dave had thought the meeting was going to be about recording with Daniel Lanois. I mean...how awesome would that have been? They're never going to do anything like that now, which is nothing against Brendan O' Brien. He knows that the short. fast songs are usually PJ's best as of late. But their goals now are to make records in a comfortable, safe environment where everyone contributes equally. That doesn't mean greatness most of the time. They need someone like Lanois or Eno to record something like 'Of The Earth' and capture the more cerebral parts of that song. 'Binaural' will ultimately seem like an outlier in their catalog, the record that could have been, and I think that whole experience soured them on experimenting in the studio. They just want to get in there and get out in a matter of days. To capture a more visceral experience, which is cool and all, but they have nothing to lose by changing things up now. Their fans will buy whatever they put out and they'll still sell out places wherever they go. Isn't that what you want as a safety net for a band?

I think we forget also how prolific that band was early on. They put out five albums in six years (if you include MIrror Ball). They were playing lots of new material live before it came out on record. Improvisation was a big part of their live sets. That doesn't happen now.

Watched PJ20 yesterday and I actually enjoyed it more than I expected to. It's not great and it just kinda feels like the typical band doc, but some of the old footage is fun to see. "The Drummer Story" is almost offensive in how it downplays the significance of those guys and drummers in general. The Vedder "a drummer is the heart of the band" quote doesn't really make up for it. I did think it was interesting that Gossard (I think) basically said that Kurt kept them in check with his critique of them. It's weird to think back to that time because seeing Ament and his fucking stupid Spin Doctors hats really reminded me of why I hated the band when I was 14.

Mother Love Bone hasn't aged well, has it? No disrespect to Wood or fans of the MLB stuff, but man, that stuff looks and sounds so of its time in a bad way now to me. Listening to "Holy Roller" now, it feels like a bridge between the glammy '80s LA bands like Warrant/Poison and the more mainstream bands of the early '90s.

The ending is a giant cheeseball with "Alive" and the cavalcade of PJ then-and-now clips. Like, we get it movie, we should be thankful PJ's still around and that they survived. The film really does cement the idea that Pearl Jam is a band that has stayed together and just sort of been there for the last decade.

this.

Mother Love Bone were never good. Ageing has nothing to do with it.

don't want to be the guy who says it, but yeah, you're basically right.

That's probably true of Journey, too. They were a major band...but I don't know if they were a great one.

I mean, who else is there these days? This is how far rock has fallen.

True. It's all senior citizen bands (the guys in PJ are all in their mid-40s now, too).

Maybe there won't be arena shows twenty years from now...

[quote]Maybe there won't be arena shows twenty years from now... [/quote

sure there will. they'll be played by u2, pearl jam, coldplay, and whomsoever takes their place next.

there'll always be bands that are 'big'.

kings of leon if they didn't drink themselves into nonexistance

friend and i have a bet on as to whether or not kings of leon will stille exist in 12 months time.

i say yes, and that a new album will see them rocket back up the hit parade. she says nay, that their recent gigs have been pedestrian half-paced affairs devoid of the speed of previous years. i saw them a few weeks ago and thought they were great.

I never liked MLB, with the exception of Chloe/Crown of Thorns. That still sounds pretty good when I spin the Singles soundtrack.

KoL is the last biggish rock band I can think of who took the "traditional" route (slowly building over 4 albums) to reach success. I have hopes they can still turn it around.

I don't think they've ever been a great live band, tho.

I used to be a big KoL fan. Every album they put out is a little bit worse than the preceding release.
I think I gave their last albums two listens before giving up on it. I’m hoping their next album (if there is a next one) has at least a couple of good songs.

Like KoL, My Morning Jacket should be included in the discussion of bands that have built up an audience the traditional way. On their current tour they are playing a mix of large theatres and arenas.

KoL is learning what a lot of big-selling bands learn - feeding the beast of arena/stadium rock tours can devour you. It's very thin air in that world, and if you don't have that special something, you're done.

Probably less than 10 bands do it really well and are able to hold on.

And yes, Chloe Dancer/Crown of Thorns is probably the only thing MLB did worth a shit. When that ended, Stone went off by himself and wrote most of the Ten riffs and b-sides - pretty huge burst of creativity that still matters 20 years down the line. Wouldn't it be nice to have talent like that? "Oh, I'm just gonna spend a few weeks writing riffs and songs and they'll turn out to be enduring classics, no big deal."

oh for the record i really don't give two shits about KoL i just meant to imply they are one of few arena bands w/ potential staying power.

although, with today's tour announcement, the black keys just might be the better example. the united center? jesus fuck.

death cab for cutie and arcade fire are two other options as well, they play bigger rooms than MMJ when they tour out here (have to say i prefer MMJ to both significantly, though).

that got a holy fuck from me as well. nice, slow, deserved build for those bros.

Just bought that vinyl copy of Ten that looks like a basketball and says "Pearl Jam Official." not my fave PJ record, nostalgia notwithstanding, but as soon as I saw it in the shop I was ashamed I hadn't bought it years ago. A must own piece of kitschy, physical music merchandise, really.

pretty much sums up the band when you think about it.

OTM.

Great band.

black keys are definitely the most recent current example of that slow build to success. they've done it brilliantly too, not compromising their musical integrity, just touring like demons and syncing here, there and everywhere.

it's worked a charm, and they're a terrific band.

Not to take anything away from The Black Keys, but I think they've basically just filled the void that The White Stripes left behind. A lot of people hadn't even heard of them until last year or so and all of a sudden they're the new go-to band for guys who barely ever listen to new music and like to to tell you "naw man, but these guys are like real rock n roll, dude".

thats kinda true, but i think the black keys (esp. in their current permutation) are a lot more marketable than the white stripes were in their later years. you gotta remember, jack and meg were making some of their weirdest and most unconventional music in their last two albums. not saying they were merzbow or anything, but still, most of those tunes were a solid ways from brothers' hits.

This is accurate imo

OK, so three to five rock bands who can sell out arena shows every year? That's not exactly high praise.

Arena shows will be the new stadium shows soon enough.

stand-up guys:
http://www.wcax.com/story/16379962/pearl-j...ivery-to-vt-man

Now, that's quality.

Another reason I like these guys. ^^^^^^

stand-up gentlemen fer sure

EV will be on Portlandia S2

Gremmie.net has a newly discovered PJ demo from 1991 called "Chinese".
Cameron Crowe played it on PJ radio, yesterday.

dad rock

literally

McCready is gonna be VH-1's That Metal Show whenever the next one airs