my recollections of Pearl Jam were this:

1) i generally enjoyed the first album, but not enough to keep it
2) they weren't as great as Nirvana
3) their albums were a bit too uneven when i gave a listen or two to purchase any of them

however, in the meantime:

1) they've stuck around and i've heard a number of good songs here and there.
2) not sure what i saw recently, but there's something about them that earned my respect (could be Vedder's love for the Who)
3) my love for Nirvana has waned to the point of their impact on music was something that happened a really long time ago and has almost nothing to do with music today (except for, perhaps, the search for the next "Nevermind")
4) there must be something to them, right?

i know there are some huge Pearl Jam fans on the board. so, here are some questions. i'm sure the answers will vary:

1) of their gigantic load of live shows, any one of them worth picking up in particular? why?
2) would said live album make up for any need to make some kind of mix or purchase of their greatest hits?
3) if you were to put together a mix for someone like me, who, if inspired, might pick up an album or two (or their entire collection), what would be on it?
4) if someone happened to have such a mix out there worth uploading...would you? please?
5) is there any one of their records that i just HAVE to have?

For me, it's always been about:

I too stand by No Code. Vs. has always been a favorite, though.

Can't say much about their live recordings, though.

Solace to thread.

any particular reasons? just curious. you're usually a little bit more eloquent than this.

Live at Benaroya Hall is cool for the half acoustic / half electric show. And there aren't really many hits played, so it could give you some exposure to their other albums / b-sides / covers.

Live at State College is cool for the sheer amount of songs that are played.

And Yield is a fan favorite album when they went back to the rock. So, you might enjoy that one.

As for mixes, here's one of all Who covers (some played with the Who, some just Pearl Jam, some Ed Ved and Pete) (it is a bootleg, so sound quality can vary, but if you are a Who fan, it might be a good way to get you into Pearl Jam):

http://www.pearljamonline.it/SqueezeBox.rar

I like the variety. It's got some of their best rockers, like "Hail, Hail," "Lukin," "Habit" and "Red Mosquito." A couple excellent acoustic tracks ("Off He Goes," "Around the Bend"). An attempt to rip-off Crazy Horse ("Smile").

I don't love it all -- "I'm Open" and "Present Tense" are kinda lame. But overall, it's my favorite PJ album by far.

A lot of it has to do with Jack Irons. He's definitely the most interesting drummer Pearl Jam ever had, and that shows on stuff like "Who You Are" and "In My Tree."

the only song from this band that still holds any value for me is rearview mirror

1) of their gigantic load of live shows, any one of them worth picking up in particular? why?
Indio, CA '93 and Soldier Field, Chicago '95 are a couple of old favorites. You can find downloads thru google pretty easily on most of their noteworthy live shows. Indio is quite unlike most of their shows, so don't start with that one but if you have an interest in them live, you should see/hear this one at some point.

2) would said live album make up for any need to make some kind of mix or purchase of their greatest hits?
nope.

5) is there any one of their records that i just HAVE to have?
Gotta go with Vs. and Yield.

No Code is definitely my favourite of theirs as well, it's so diverse and has them branching out but never really falling flat on their face (as on some later albums..). It doesn't seem to be very well-liked by most PJ fans, I think mostly because it's so different and quite slow-paced, but obviously it has some dedicated fans.

Vs., Ten, Vitalogy are also all masterpieces. I've always felt Yield ran together a bit too much to be classed in with the rest. Really, this band has no bad album except for Riot Act; even Binaural had some great moments, where Riot Act was just boring and monotonous. The S/T showed a rejuvenated band that took the best elements of classic PJ and mixed them in with "new" PJ -- I'd rate it higher than Yield, Binaural and Riot Act.

no code is the one i'd listen to as well if i was to throw one on. first four are all great, though

edit: just read the previous post again

I agree with most of this, except I think Yield is better than the self-titled album from a couple years ago.

Just spinning No Code again for the first time in at least a couple years. What a great, great album. Would put it and Yield at the top of the PJ list.

surprised the frog hasn't weighed in yet.

i remember in high school when yield and no code came out and all my friends who were huge pj fans thought they sucked...and i actually kinda liked those at the time...now this band is amongst those form my childhood that hold no value to me whatsoever

I think S/T was overhyped. Some fantastic songs on there, but not the rockin' return to form everyone wanted it to be.

Well this would be the way to get me into PJ. Something about you finding a clever way to get Who fans like myself to listen to this band and your username makes me laugh.

My only problem with Pearl Jam is whenever one of their songs come on I always just think to myself "Yep, that sounds like a Pearl Jam song." Never really excites me.

no code for me by a mile.

vs was pretty good, but struck me as too much of an attempt to sound like fugazi when fugazi were a lot better at sounding like fugazi. i hated vitalogy back in the day, but i'm not sure why. 'spin the black circle' was a rocking tune. yield was ok, but for me signalled the birth of nu-r.e.m. - even though i was largely unmoved by 'do the evolution' as a single, it is a necessity on that quite pedestrian album.

i have to admit that was where i tuned out as far as albums are concerned. heard the odd recommended song - such as 'light years' and 'thumbing my way' - but nothing outside that. slept through most of the set when i saw them in 2000. not literally. 'do the ev' saved the day once more; people thought i was on drugs, i was dancing so hard. i did check out the self-titled one, but it was as plodding as i had feared.

which brings me to no code. maybe it's a case of lowered expectations that made me like it so. i doubt that, though, as whenever i revisit it, i am pleased. it is such an intimate record for such a large band. i am loathe to use the word 'organic' in the context of music, but it fits here. it is as though they stopped attempting to sound cutting edge (lol, i know right?) and just decided to settle down and play some mean rock music. but it was when they first decided that, before rigor mortis set in. so you get that wonderfully unassuming intro song, the rock out songs that sound fresh in the context of a more considered sound, i even like the more arty-farty quasi-poetic stuff. so when you get onto the really good songs, like 'off he goes', 'habit' and stuff, it's party time.

albeit a rather introspective party with headphones on and a j

I prefer the first three albums, and pick and choose songs from there on.

Don't really have anything for the first two questions, but:



"Oceans" from Ten
one song from Vs/, but right now I don't know which one
Several songs from Vitalogy, including "Corduroy", "Tremor Christ", "Nor for You", and "Immortality"
Both songs from the "Merkinball" EP/single they did with Neil Young
The song "Against the '70s" that Vedder recorded with Mike Watt
Most of No Code
A couple from Yield, but again I'm not sure which
"Grievance" from Binaural

and maybe a couple from Riot Act and the s/t. I've only listened to each of them once. Riot Act seemed surprisingly OK, but I didn't like the s/t at all.

I loved Pearl Jam when I was a teenager (pretty much the mid-to-late '90s), but after I finally got to see them live in 2000, I pretty much totally got over them. As such I haven't really listened to them much over the past several years, and I've reached the point where I can barely listen to their first two albums at all. I also had gotten pretty sick of the handful of B-sides that I used to like, i.e. "Yellow Ledbetter" and maybe a few others. The mix I'd make would be pretty heavily weighted towards their middle albums, Vitalogy, No Code, and Yield, and a few things they did around that time.




I'd be happy to if I ever got around to making one. Chances are I never will, though.



Hard to say. I'm in the No Code camp, but it's neither representative of "classic" PJ or PJ as a whole, nor is it really what I'd consider an essential album. It's easily their best, though, and carries perhaps the heaviest Neil Young influence of any of their records.

You guys are awesome. No Code is such an underrated gem of a record. Easily my favorite PJ record by a country mile. I haven't REALLY enjoyed a PJ record since Yield and I gave Binaural way too many tries. Vs. is solidly good, Vitalogy has great songs and moments but is so uneven and littered with annoyances and Ten's production makes it almost unlistenable to me now unless I was throwing a Ben Stiller-themed 1990's Party or something.

It's weird, but I think that Riot Act is one of their strongest albums as a whole (definitely better than S/T). I can name about 8 songs off the top of my head that are still good 6 years on ("You Are" in particular, which was written in part by Matt Cameron). But I will echo the sentiments of most and say that No Code is the one to start (again) with. Just don't rule out Riot Act because it came out when it was hip to not like them (Binaural-release of the self-titled).

There are too many bad tracks on No Code to recommend it for someone who wants to learn more about the band. (I'm Open, Who You Are, Red Mosquito, Lukin, Habit). The live versions of the last three are soooo much better. It seems like a lot of the up-tempo songs are done too slow to effectively rock, and if you really want diversity and weirdness in a Pearl Jam record, Vitalogy remains their best effort.

Though I will admit Off He Goes and Present Tense are two of their ten best songs. Very schizophrenic record that effectively killed their career momentum. Whether or not that's a bad thing is in the eye of the beholder.

To answer the original question, Ten is probably the only essential one of theirs. I'd just buy the best-of, or wait for someone to make you a mix.

Good band.
If I was introducing someone to this band I'd start with Vs. or No Code

No.

Any early live extended versions of Porch are as good as it gets. And when they used to run Daughter and WMA together live was pretty sweet. Love the drumming on WMA. By far my favorite band in the 90s, now I only pull it out when driving one in a great while, while playing poker with friends from college, or for nostalgia.

"Ten" is an interesting debut album. Not sure if that's the way they had it planned, but it's jammy-ness seemed to turn on the classic rock crowd as well as the "alternative" rock crowd.

I'm not defending "Ten," but I think it's an interesting business move.

Yeah, probably the Pearl Jam record I'm least likely to listen to right now.

You could make an argument for the songwriting on just about any PJ album except Ten have a business motivation behind it.

Hey, I love this band as much as anyone, but there are serious flaws with every other album they've made. They've never made a disc that was as consistent as Ten, and they probably never will. Which is fine. Their bread and butter will always be the live show.

That's cool everyone loves No Code, but that album was such a huge disappointment when it came out, not to mention the band was at the height of their TM boycott, and the well-documented internal struggles recording it, and the fact the outtakes which showed up later on Lost Dogs are better songs than at least three of the ones I listed last time, it's silly to call it their best. The outtakes/bsides on Ten are great tracks, but you wouldn't substitute any of them for the ones which made the album. You can substitute ones on every other album in the catalog. Like I said, you can still make a killer 2 CD mix of stuff, which is a far better intro/more detailed way to get to know the band, than to recommend any other single album PJ has released. You can't get a fully representative view of the band by just giving them No Code, you know?

i remember loving ten back in the day. now i barely listen to it. or vs.

but the run from []vitalogy[/i] thru no code and finishing with yield is exemplary.

i'd heartily recommend lost dogs to any non-fan.

I've always maintained that if PJ had just waited a year and released the best of Vs. and Vitalogy as one album, they would've had the classic of the alt-rock era on their hands.

As is, Rearviewmirror (the hits) is the only really essential thing they ever released.

No Code is pretty cool though.

to answer your questions:



1. 11/6/00 in Seattle is worth owning, as is 5/3/03 at Penn State, as is 7/11/95 at Soldier Field. The 11/6 set is a closing night of a long tour in an election year in their hometown and a "secret show" (or one that was announced 24 hours before it took place). Needless to say, there's some special energy in the air that night. The Penn State gig is one of the longest they've ever played, 3+ hours easy. Soldier Field is worth owning because most of this board are Chicagoans, or former Chicagoans, and that show is just legendary.

2. For the most part, I'd say so. I think Montana also maintains that Live On Two Legs is one of the best live albums of all time, and that gives you a good sense at their career/legacy circa 1998.

3. jesus...some favorite, slightly more off the beaten path PJ tunes include: i got ID, tremor christ, smile, whipping, MFC, rats, blood, i dunno (and that's not even covering lost dogs songs, of which i admittedly don't know as well as i should...)

4. damn, making a PJ mix would be kinda fun...

5. i'm a staunch believer that ten->no code are all excellent and necessay. i don't quite love yield like everyone else seems to. vitalogy is their best record in my eyes, but depending on the day of could easily make an argument for any of their first four LPs. however, the best thing this band has ever done is the merkinball double A-side w/ neil young. the songs are i got ID and long road.





i must say, between this thread and the grateful dead thread on top, it's a good day on the somb. i love this band and always will.

Did a drive-by of XRT on the dial the other day, and caught twenty seconds of "Nothing Man," which reminded me why I don't listen to XRT or Pearl Jam anymore.

"Nothingman" and "Better Man" are probably the two most embarrassing tracks on Vitalogy aside from that ridiculously long thing at the end.

And they're pretty indicative of why Pearl Jam can be pretty hard to listen to now. I could stand to never hear those, "Jeremy", and "Daughter" ever again.

i think yr confusing familiarity and contempt.

all those songs you mentioned are righteous. you can tell that there's an honesty in the band's performance, and in ed's lyrics. great, great songs - that were thrashed to death on the radio. doesn't change the fact that they're great songs but.

There are serious, serious flaws with Ten too. Without even getting into the familiarity of the songs and the '90s time-capsule-ness of it all - the production bothers me. Also, "Porch"? Come on. I could do without the first 40 seconds of the record, too. I think Pearl Jam themselves would be really disappointed by someone calling Ten the best 'representation' of the band. I think No Code, VS. or even despite its faults, Vitalogy, are better representations of them as a band.

Familiarity? C'mon, man...I can't think of a single band that wouldn't kill to have their songs played as often as the ones on Ten. It's almost laughable for you to suggest that the album is bad because it's been played by millions of people too damn much. People love that album? Then it must not be any good!

I do agree the reverb needs to go (the remixed tracks on the Best Of sound amazing). However, that whole record is one anthem after another, something the band (deliberately) strayed from pretty much there on. If there are flaws, it's not with the songwriting. Though I guess I don't dismiss records based on 40 seconds of one song.

And of course PJ doesn't want Ten to be the representation of the band. What active band would agree a record that came out 17 years ago to be their defining moment? They're always going to say something current as part of the whole marketing and PR. It's all image and wanting to stay relevant to sell more records. Shit, around the time R.E.M.'s 'Up' came out, I saw Peter Buck do an interview where he called Automatic, New Adventures, and Up as their three best albums. How'd that one turn out?

In the same token, I don't see how PJ would be happy with albums that came out 15 and 14 years ago (Vs. and Vitalogy), too. But it's not up to them how their career is defined. The fans and critics have that say.

The former breeds the latter. I'm not confusing anything.

But it isn't familiarity that drives my distaste for those songs, except maybe "Better Man". I liked that one for a while when Vitalogy first came out. I never liked "Nothingman" (plodding and dull), and Jeremy never did much for me. Even at the time it just seemed like a hipper, edgier "Janey's Got a Gun". I didn't like "Daughter" at all at first, grew to like it somewhat, then got sick of it pretty quickly. Over-play might have had something to do with it, but notice that I didn't list every big PJ single as reasons why they're hard to listen to now. I just feel like those songs represent certain aspects of their sound and songwriting that date them in a bad way.

And I don't think anyone here is saying that familiarity with their songs makes them bad, but it does make them harder to listen to now.

I fucking love "Yellow Ledbetter," but that's pretty much it. A couple songs from No Code are quite strong, and I find myself coming back to them every once in a while, but this was never the band for me.

heh.

that's because i was out in DC & NYC seeing Pearl Jam + Ted Leo with my wife for our 10th/2nd anniversary

But you're on the money Re: No Code (and especially the Jack Irons comment), but you're wrong about Present Tense, it's a killer song, especially live.

Nate has some good points, but his intense love for Ten over their other records isn't as indicative of most hardcore Pearl Jam fans, moreso of the casual PJ fan (i realize Nate is a bigger PJ fan than the average person, but still). No Code is now fairly widely regarded as one of their better, if not best albums by MANY hardcore PJ fans, even though many of them (myself included) had an akward reaction to it at the time, much like OK Computer for me a year later.

The band was nearly untouchable from Ten through Yield for me (i'll admit that each record is far from flawless, they've yet to make a perfect record), but those 5 for me were definitely all worth owning. it's post '00 where things start to go downhill. whoever said that Riot Act is their only truely bad record is dead on, and that Binaural, while it has some great tracks, suffers from terrible flow, and that many of it's b-sides are better than than the record itself. the S/T definitely picked it up quite a bit from Riot Act, and i'd now put it ahead of Binaural too, but still, none of those 3 quite touch anything from Yield and earlier.

also, Nate, your comment about Ten outtakes is also quite inaccurate. Many of these songs are better than tracks on Ten:

Footsteps, State of Love and Trust, Breath, Alone, Wash, Brother (the ORIGINAL Brother with vox), etc. (and i'm sure MANY would argue for Yellow Ledbetter too, but i wouldn't).

i'd rank PJ's records like:

Vs. >= No Code >= Yield >= Vitalogy (honestly can't pick a favorite out of these 4, i'd say it's usually Vs. or No Code tho) > Ten (production is definitely it's downfall at this point, i can't even listen to the studio record) >>>> Self-Titled >= Binaural >>>>>>>>> Riot Act

much more later when i get to work

lots of your post is totally OTM, especially Merkinball, those are def 2 of PJ's best songs, which just shows to me how fertile that time around No Code / Mirrorball was for the band.

now you're making me miss Jack Irons again

jack irons last tour was an australian / nz jaunt, and it was most bodacious indeed.

I've always hated that song. Just cringe whenever it's played. It's like Pearl Jam's homage to Stevie Ray Vaughan's homage to Jimi Hendrix.

hell yeah, i'm proud solace validated my PJ post.

anyhow, i've said it a million times, but here's three more:
merkinball, merkinball, merkinball

Threw Yield in on a road trip this weekend.
First time I've listened to it in a long time. Really strong record.
I love No Code as much as the next fan, but I think Yield might have more consistency to it,
which makes it more accessible and overall I think, the better album.

i'd agree that Yield is def way more accessible (maybe their most accessible record actually...) and more consistent than No Code. it's def their last truly great record for me.

really wish i'd have gotten to see Jack play on those Yield songs, but as DemonAndrew mentioned, his last tour w/ PJ was in Oz/NZ, before Cameron took over in the US (his drumming on that initial '98 tour left a lot to be desired). the 3/5/98 show is one of PJ's best, and one of my absolute fave bootlegs to listen to (thank you JJJ!). the version of 'In My Tree' on there is ungodly, Matt's version since then is a total abomination and should be put out to pasture (his take on 'Who You Are' is BETTER, but still not great, and the re-working of WMA from this tour is pretty f'n poor).

i appreciate everything that's been said in the thread so far. thanks. (and thanks for not pointing out the fact that i mis-spelled "uninitiated" in the title)

as far as my purchases are concerned, i can pretty much pick up the first five albums (and Merkinball) for next to nothing on half.com and will probably do so.

however, do you think it would be better to pick up "Ten" or the "RearviewMirror" greatest hits record?

is the production really that bad on the first record? is it different than on the other records?

if you don't know and haven't heard Ten all the way through it's definitely worth having. The production is dated but I don't understand the people that say they'll never listen to it again for that reason. I think the more likely explanation is we all loved it so much at the time that we wore it out and never need to hear it again. The production is part of the album and it's a great album -- even with the imperfections.

Even though I'm not a big fan of Ten, I'd pick it up over the greatest hits. I don't think production is Ten's biggest problem.

If you like those albums, maybe see if you can find a good deal on the Lost Dogs comp. I don't own it, but I've got most of the songs that are on it, and at one time or another I've really enjoyed a lot of them. (It may actually contain the Merkinball, but I don't know.)

yeah, steer far clear of their greatest hits deal, that was just part of their deal w/ Epic and the band had little to nothing to do with it

Lost Dogs is def worth hearing, as there's plenty of hidden gems (along w/ a handful of songs that it's quite obvious why they never made it on any album).

i'll see if i can't come up w/ a 2 or 3 disc mix of "essentials" for the casual fan who has heard most of their bigger songs off all their records, the 3rd disc probably being odds/ends/covers.