I don't see how this can be true. Any run-of-the-mill sit-down restaurant, Chili's, Ruby Tuesday, a burger of this size is going to be, what, $8-9? What is your point of comparison that makes a burger like this overpriced at $10-12?

Wow. My experience is exactly the opposite. Almost every single place I go, I have to order rare to get medium rare. Almost everyone seems to err on the side of overcooked in my experience. Fuck, in some places I order rare and I still get medium, like at Prairie Moon, for instance. I like their burgers but goddamn if they've ever cooked it to my specs. I'm going to have to go down one more notch and start ordering them blue and see what happens.

Yep...and I think a lot of this has to do with lawyers at the grill. A lot of places have warnings on the menu that say meat should be ordered at least medium, and the restaurant won't be held liable for anything requested less than medium.

I was at Tango Sur a few months back (sorry to drag another restaurant into this thread); and they refused to cook my steak medium rare. Medium or higher were the only options.

agreed, thats what i meant to sy in my little rant upthread, butut my type retypes onto itself on this computer for some reasona nd i am totally full of typoes and just quit explaining myself. obvs not now though.

anyway.
it's difficult to get a rare burger, or even medium rare these days. due to the fear or bad beef/ disease and all that. but welldone burgers are so fucking gross, what teh fcuk.

Is this some internet meme I don't know about?

know

most over-hyped burger in Chicago

-slow as hell service
-cold fries
-burger temps never right
-beer list always incomplete
-over-priced

any place that hangs an apology sign because of slow service is fucking pathetic. it's the restaurant/bar industry, the goal is to be busy. fucking buy a double broiler for fucksakes.

fuck Kuma's. Hamburger Mary's burgers are better anyway.

tortilla strips are a worthless foodstuff

you are correct kind sir! that was great service, 2 other times were great, and then i hit a slide of poor/below avg, mediocre service..... I wont quit on them

i dont think the bad outweighs the good though

Raj is seriously otm... burger, fries, and unlimited soda comes to $12-14.

thats on par w/ the other places. and i'd rather pay the extra $2 for the pretzel roll

It's $10 for mac n cheese. $10! That's insulting. Burgers are between $10 - 12. I need more than band names to and tattooed sluts to get me shell out that dough for the kitsch.

The burger at Naha is $10 and it's far, far superior. May St. Market has an awesome burger for about the same price, including a duck burger. Hackneys, even Epic Burger can stand up to the Kuma mess.

And if you're looking for "burger experience" or "burger kitsch" - Billy Goat has the best.

While I respectfully disagree with your former statements, they are at least grounded in reality. But your Billy Goat statement...fucking ridiculous. Worst over priced burgers ever. The bun is about 30% bigger than the burger. The burgers themselves are merely on par with a mcdonalds or burger king. And if you order a double cheeseburger...you only get one piece of cheese.

My buddy got the mac n cheese last time we went to kumas. Got it with grilled chicken, it was huge and could only eat half of it. I don't think $10 is that ridiculous.

From "no big whoop" to "most over-hyped burger in Chicago," wow. How many times did you have to go in the past few weeks since your first visit to determine that the temps are "never" right and the beer list is "always" incomplete? It must have been a lot! I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just trying to be funny through exaggeration.


Can you tell me about another place where you can get a (very, very large) portion of mac 'n' cheese with the same extensive list of customizable ingredients? I'm seriously asking, I would love to find more restaurants that do stuff like that.

Ah, now the waitresses are "sluts." Real classy.

I'll put Naha and May St. burgers on my to-eat list.

I like Billy Goat a lot but that's apples and oranges, it's a greasy diner burger.



I'm not even a Kuma's partisan by any means. But this thread is just silly.

in terms of pure burger quality there are better places, but obviously kumas burgers are more than decent and there are plenty of other reasons to recommend them

i've only been twice, but we had a big discussion at work the other nite and everyone pretty much said the same thing about the place, so i'm just going on consensus opinions from maybe 6 other people.

the cold fries thing is totally unacceptable.

Cold fries would be an absolute dealbreaker for me. Like, a get up and walk out dealbreaker.

I know you guys love the continued commentary from someone who's never been to the place.

In the five or six times I've been, I've never had cold fries

I've frequently had delicious and warm fries, in fact

Two visits and a seven-person consensus does not remotely justify the majority of what you said. At best, you expressed yourself poorly. It sounds like you're reacting more to the hype than the restaurant itself. As an early Arcade Fire adopter, I would think you would be smarter than that.

Kuma's fries are just average at best anyway. The house salad is tastier.

yeah, maybe i exaggerated a little... it's just that this place has had incredible buzz/hype and it seems that they haven't been able to deal with it at all and as an experienced restaurant/bar industry person, i think it's absolutely pathetic that they haven't been able to step up to the increased business. an apology sign? really?! so sad. being busy is the goal.

that IS the business.

have none of you people been to Hamburger Mary's?

I've never even heard of Hamburger Mary's. Give us a rundown.

I've been to hamburger mary's 4 or 5 times. It's good, but not at good as Kumas. The burgers simply are better at Kumas.

edit: but I do fucking love the onion rings at Mary's.

best gay hamburger in Chicago

Yeah, I love Mary's special sauce with my burger/onion rings, which always provokes a simultaneous chuckle and vomit in my mouth.

It's not an apology, it's an explanation. They're being honest and upfront.

It's the same thing as Hot Doug's, which gets the same kind of unwarranted criticism. "Oh, why doesn't Doug expand to a bigger location with longer hours, he's implicitly obligated to do that because it would dramatically increase his profits, regardless of his own desires." Both places like to do things their own way and customers who don't like that (of whom there are many) are welcome to go elsewhere with no hard feelings.

Both you and Simakos are sort of right. I've been to Hot Dougs dozens. I've never once had bad service there, and lord knows that place can get overwhelmed. I don't want Kuma's to take down the dominatrix pictures, open a branch in the burbs, and bring in a professional management team.

I just want decent service within the means that they have. I'll wait an hour for a Kumas burger. Just make sure I have a few beers and a few smiles. That's it.

Tasty, classic burger.

I definitely agree that there's room for improvement in the service at Kuma's and I mentioned it upthread, I think. I just think its being overstated. I went to Kuma's once recently and knocked over my half-finished beer. The waitress repeatedly insisted it was not my fault (even though it obviously was), got me a new one, and didn't charge me for the one I spilled, even though I had already had half of it. That doesn't strike me as endemic of a place with bad service.

But as far as the kitchen limitations, which is what Simakos is talking about, that's not a factor of service, it's a factor of size limitaitons and an explosion in popularity, which is why I mention Hot Doug's, because the wait there is basically for the same reason.

Hot Doug's of course has better service, but service-wise the two aren't at all comparable anyway because their formats are so different. It's in the capacity/popularity=wait relationship that the two are comparable.

well, that is just simply expected. if somebody spills their drink, you give them a fresh one and don't charge for it.



it is a factor of service. the kitchen is what is slowing down service... they even made a sign stating such.

"service" starts from the time you park your car and enter the building, how quickly your first drink arrives, what kind of towels are in the bathroom, the temp of your food, and even how much employees smile at you. it's all service. it's called "The Service Industry" for a reason. you are hosting people and serving them by entertaining them according to expectations that you suggest or are common to a culture.

one hour wait for a hamburger is incredible. if anyone here with restaurant experience can explain to me how that is possible no matter how small the kitchen is, i'd like to know what the hell is slowing them down.

wait, i know what it is... last time i was there i checked out their little kitchen pretty well and noticed no Mexicans working there. that's the problem. Mexicans make kitchens fly.

Wow, great. So Hot Doug's has bad service because I have to wait an hour plus to get my sausage. It doesn't matter what explanation there could be, including actual physical limitations that make it impossible to go faster, or the business owner's preference in how he runs his restaurant; Doug is obligated to provide "better" service.

Service is a lot less important to me than the food. Unless service is fantastic or absolutely terrible - basically good or bad to the degree where it dramatically affects the experience - it's an afterthought. I'll leave stopwatch timing the waitress and tallying the beers in the coolers to someone else.

its my new restaurant to take people to. i get embarassed when i order the buffy burger but it's really good. and jalapeno popperS!

but! kumas is way better. WAY.

Hot Doug's is a counter-service place, no waitrons as far as i know of... the fact that people wait that long for a hot dog is kind of funny. i've done it more than a few times and always wonder why i waited in that damn line. i guess it's the journey of it all. he's a lucky guy, probably making killer money and paying little rent.

you can't compare these two places at all. Kuma's is a restaurant/pub/bar and should be acting accordingly. i know a quality server when i see one, and both times i was there the waitresses were flaky as shit, forgetting drinks, serving the wrong burgers to the wrong tables and taking forever to bring a bill after it was asked for. the two times i was there, all i could think about is that for a place with such amazing buzz, they really are dropping the ball and eventually they will suffer once the buzz wears off. it's fucking burgers and fries and beers... there are hundreds of places in this town that serve it up much smoother and faster and it kind of offends me as an experienced service industry person to experience it when it's done poorly.

if High Dive had that kind of buzz, they would step up and do what they need to do to get things done properly. it's not easy, but it's not rocket science either.

Raj, you are rare in that you will put up with bad service if the food is quality... normally, people prefer places with great service. good food is easy to make, good service is trickier and most people respond to good service.

9 out of 10 times, people will return to a place based on service. just ask Zagat. good food is just pretty much a given these days.

where is this mary's burger location? i am too lazy/busy to look it up

Andersonville

we will go sometime.

the waiters there are all assholes though.

Hamburger Mary's is in andersonville...around foster and Clark. It has a big purple awning. If you want more specifics, you'll have to do the googling.

OTM.

I can see how Hot Doug's and Kuma's compare, though. Two unassuming joints where the buzz has led to long waits. The difference is, Hot Doug's is service-oriented. Kuma's isn't. I bet if Hot Doug was running Kuma's, the wait would be as long, but I'd get a drink when I wanted it, the burger I ordered, and the check when I finished. All without the eyeroll. I've always felt like they must be going for the Dick's Last Resort schtick, where the food is served with 'tude. But if that's the case, they've gotta go farther with it. At the moment, it just feels apathetic and lazy.

We just don't see eye to eye, and that's fine. You've got

a really small sample size, and;

factoring hype into evaluations, which is two strikes in my book. And since I've had OK service on average there (and never terrible) I really have no choice but to write off your opinion completely.


I hate this attitude.


Uh, maybe they should step up first and the buzz will follow? Actually I hope not, I like High Dive the way it is! Mm, mini-burgers...


Really? I mean, should I start a poll. There are a number of restaurants with bad service that I will go to because the food is good enough. I can't think of a single place with bad food that I would ever go to just because the service was excellent. I don't see the point.


Oh wait Simakos, as a food industry veteran, are you a server/waiter or a cook? Hm... I just can't figure it out... totally could be either...


This combined with the previous statement is the most awful belief I've read on this board in so long. I'm now scared to go to any restaurant you recommend.

I assume Simakos' favorite restaurant is Jimmy John's, because he has basically outlined their business philosophy.

As Simakos noted though, it doesn't really make sense to compare the two this way; the amount of service that HD does with no alcohol, bill paid up front, self-bussed tables, etc. is far lower. That said HD does have a great customer experience and I like how they usually bring the food to your table rather than just calling you up to the counter as most places with their layout would.

I'm just saying, I think that great customer experience would translate to a place like Kuma's. The ways Kuma's is fucking up aren't, like simakos said, rocket science. Hire a waitstaff that knows what it's doing, and put some of the profits back into the kitchen.

man, i hate it when people who have never worked in a quality restaurant start offering up advice and opinions about how places should run and what makes them successful.

shoemakers! (old school restaurant insult. "you shouldn't be working in a restaurant, you should be making shoes.")

I think customers have a pretty important say in what makes restaurants successful (since ultimately they are the ones who make restaurants successful) and I'm not particularly interested in patronizing any (short-lived) restaurant that feels otherwise.

I'm floored that people care this much about service. Hopefully the day when robots replace waiters will come soon so we can stop talking about this.

I bet shoemakers say the same thing about waiters.

If the food is great, I don't particularly care about the service. However, I do think I am in the minority. It seems like most people I know prefer average (not bad) food with outstanding service. I tend to slum it a little more culinarily, so I tend to like the more rough-around-the-edges places that have fantistic, soulfully prepared food, but might be low on atmosphere and perhaps a bit wanting in the service department. I can forgive bad service if the food warrants it. I will not forgive bad to even average food if the service is exceptional. But that depends on why you go out to eat. I eat out solely because of the food. I'm not interested in the whole "dining experience." (Well, maybe if I ever get my ass out to Alinea or Moto, I'll enjoy all elements: food, service, atmosphere.)

Not if you go with your cute gay male friends.

I got a cheese steak from Philly's Best and it was delicious. But the guy didn't smile when he gave it to me, so a few hours later I became violently ill and vomited it all up.


I more or less agree with Binko though

people, people... raj, binko... i'm not talking about the "dining experience" or being wowed with atmosphere. i'm simply talking about fast, efficient and attentive service. i don't care if i'm out at a 4 star restaurant, the local noodle house, or at the fucking burger king. just be attentive and do your job with efficiency, whether you are the cook, the waitron, or the the owner.

nothing is worse than having a server who is obviously more concerned about the poetry in their pocket or if their tattoos are revealed properly than the way my meal goes. do your job. if you have a job where you are supposed to mop a floor, make it the best looking god damn floor that anyone has ever seen.

raj, i seemed to have hit a nerve and i didn't intend it that way. sorry. carry on. if you're father was a cobbler or something i sincerely apologize.

the hospitality/service industry stuff is just very interesting to me... Kuma's has an amazing concept and i feel with just a little more organization and management, it could really be something special. that's why i get so hot about all of this. they have a great establishment just out of their reach and could make it happen very easily.

Oh, I agree there should be a minimum standard of service, it's just that I'm willing to let it slide more for places with unbelievable food. But I've been known to get pissed at service. I've only once got so pissed that I didn't leave a tip, and that was actually at the restaurant I vouched for on Check Please! But I'm willing to put up with slower and less attentive service at certain places. Ethnic places, especially, I let slide since quite often there's a cultural difference in regards to service. Having spent over five years in Central Europe, I've also refined my ideas at what constitutes "good service," and don't get irked unless it's particularly bad (repeatedly missing and messing up orders, making substitutions without telling the diner, etc.) Slowness and mild indifference I don't mind.

totally agree...

I'm basically with you on this, but I have on occasion written off restaurants that had great food but horrible service (dishonesty, lack of service orientation/empathy, multiple/repeated botched orders, etc.). And yeah, the leisurely pace in European restaurants was a real eye-opener, I hope I don't revert to speed-dining anytime soon.

I can't believe some of you folks don't believe good service at a restaurant is important. I mean how can you even judge whether the food is good if the wait staff can't keep orders straight or they take soo long to bring the food out that it's cold? Excellent service is paramount in a restaurant anything less is unacceptable.

I'm off on Monday who wants to meet me at Hamburger Marys for dinner?

BTW, Binko I've started recording Check Please! on my DVR and now I'm getting caught up on past episodes. What was the restaurant you recommended?