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By-Tor
QUOTE (theminimumcircus @ Aug 22 2011, 05:28 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Aug 22 2011, 05:02 PM) *
liberals are largely disappointed


It's stuff like this that doesn't sit well with my conception of liberalism.

MONDAY, AUGUST 22, 2011
Corrupt Obama Administration Pressuring New York Attorney General to Support Mortgage Whitewash
It is high time to describe the Obama Administration by its proper name: corrupt.

Admittedly, corruption among our elites generally and in Washington in particular has become so widespread and blatant as to fall into the “dog bites man” category. But the nauseating gap between the Administration’s propaganda and the many and varied ways it sells out average Americans on behalf of its favored backers, in this case the too big to fail banks, has become so noisome that it has become impossible to ignore the fetid smell.

The Administration has now taken to pressuring parties that are not part of the machinery reporting to the President to fall in and do his bidding. We’ve gotten so used to the US attorney general being conveniently missing in action that we have forgotten that regulators and the AG are supposed to be independent. As one correspondent noted by e-mail, “When officials allegiances are to El Supremo rather than the Constitution, you walk the path to fascism.”

Revealingly, one of the Administration’s allies said: “Wall Street is our Main Street.” And the worst is that this remark may not be a cynical Ministry of Truth pronouncement. Team Obama bears all the hallmarks of being so close to banks and big corporations that it has lost all contact with and understanding of mainstream America.

The latest example is its heavy-handed campaign to convert New York state attorney general Eric Schneiderman to a card carrying member of the “be nice to our lords and masters the banksters” club. Schneiderman was the first to take issue with the sham of the so-called 50 state attorney general mortgage settlement. As far as the Administration is concerned, its goal is to give banks a talking point and prove to them that Team Obama is protecting their backs in a way that the chump public hopefully won’t notice.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/cor...-whitewash.html


That's just a blogger venting. Our government will continue to be heavily influenced by big business until we get campaign finance reform, which I remember Obama was workign on when he was elected, I'll check. Obama's still got my vote. The only way I'd ever vote for a republican would be if I was dead, and someone dragged my carcass to the voting booth, and got my cold, dead hands to poke the stylus.
theminimumcircus
Yves Smith isn't just some nincompoop know-nothing blogger. She's far more qualified than any single individual in the Obama administration to speak on matters economic. Right now the only people bending Obama's ear are corporatist hacks like Daley and Immelt or political hacks like Plouffe.
musicgurl
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Aug 27 2011, 10:08 AM) *
QUOTE (theminimumcircus @ Aug 22 2011, 05:28 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Aug 22 2011, 05:02 PM) *
liberals are largely disappointed


It's stuff like this that doesn't sit well with my conception of liberalism.

MONDAY, AUGUST 22, 2011
Corrupt Obama Administration Pressuring New York Attorney General to Support Mortgage Whitewash
It is high time to describe the Obama Administration by its proper name: corrupt.

Admittedly, corruption among our elites generally and in Washington in particular has become so widespread and blatant as to fall into the “dog bites man” category. But the nauseating gap between the Administration’s propaganda and the many and varied ways it sells out average Americans on behalf of its favored backers, in this case the too big to fail banks, has become so noisome that it has become impossible to ignore the fetid smell.

The Administration has now taken to pressuring parties that are not part of the machinery reporting to the President to fall in and do his bidding. We’ve gotten so used to the US attorney general being conveniently missing in action that we have forgotten that regulators and the AG are supposed to be independent. As one correspondent noted by e-mail, “When officials allegiances are to El Supremo rather than the Constitution, you walk the path to fascism.”

Revealingly, one of the Administration’s allies said: “Wall Street is our Main Street.” And the worst is that this remark may not be a cynical Ministry of Truth pronouncement. Team Obama bears all the hallmarks of being so close to banks and big corporations that it has lost all contact with and understanding of mainstream America.

The latest example is its heavy-handed campaign to convert New York state attorney general Eric Schneiderman to a card carrying member of the “be nice to our lords and masters the banksters” club. Schneiderman was the first to take issue with the sham of the so-called 50 state attorney general mortgage settlement. As far as the Administration is concerned, its goal is to give banks a talking point and prove to them that Team Obama is protecting their backs in a way that the chump public hopefully won’t notice.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/cor...-whitewash.html


That's just a blogger venting. Our government will continue to be heavily influenced by big business until we get campaign finance reform, which I remember Obama was workign on when he was elected, I'll check. Obama's still got my vote. The only way I'd ever vote for a republican would be if I was dead, and someone dragged my carcass to the voting booth, and got my cold, dead hands to poke the stylus.


By-Tor you live in Illinois that is a real possibility after all. tongue.gif
Montana
Nice to see Obama slipping even further in the polls. I guess that's what happens when you lose your base after turning into a Republican.

It looks like Rick Perry is Dubya II, and with Obama's weak domestic record, it's going to be easy pickin's for a born again nutjob to take the White House. That said, at least I know where Rick Perry stands. At least I know what he is. Obama is an evil shapeshifter who turns on his supporters.

I'll take Perry's predictable insanity over Obama's heart-wrenching betrayal. The "Democratic Party" needs to start over.
amnesious
Were you honestly expecting him to deliver everything that he promised? You must surely be delusional if the answer is yes. The problem with politics in the US, at least how I see it, is systemic in nature. The system is so rotten that to think one man would be able to change that is ludicrous. I was overseas when Obama was sworn in, and I was talking to this American girl who was right behind him saying how he was going to completely transform the US, change the way things are run in Washington blah, blah, blah. I had to play the role of devil's advocate and tell her not to get too excited and that he probably wouldn't deliver the large policy prescriptions he was talking about in his campaign. She refused to believe me. I wonder if she is dissapointed in Obama today?

Montana
QUOTE (amnesious @ Aug 29 2011, 12:14 AM) *
Were you honestly expecting him to deliver everything that he promised?



Nope. I was expecting a Democrat.
theremin
QUOTE (amnesious @ Aug 29 2011, 12:14 AM) *
The problem with politics in the US, at least how I see it, is systemic in nature. The system is so rotten that to think one man would be able to change that is ludicrous.


My only problem with this idea is that W. was able to fuck everything up all on his own.
amnesious
QUOTE (theremin @ Aug 29 2011, 12:53 AM) *
QUOTE (amnesious @ Aug 29 2011, 12:14 AM) *
The problem with politics in the US, at least how I see it, is systemic in nature. The system is so rotten that to think one man would be able to change that is ludicrous.


My only problem with this idea is that W. was able to fuck everything up all on his own.

Without the help of possibly the most powerful Executive in modern times? Sure he appointed them, but their influence was massive.

What of the economic reforms of the Clinton administration in the late 90s? I don't think enough people pay attention to these and the chaos that they would later bring. Don't get me wrong, Bush was horrendously bad, potentially the worst President of all time, but a system was put in place prior to his taking office that brought a world of shit with it.
MattW
I'd say this was decades in the making too. If you take down as many financial and business regulations as were taken down in the 80s, you not only consolidate every industry into a set of 3-6 heavyweights reducing liabilities on their balances (ie: jobs) but they also strengthen their positions with strong lobbies to encourage monopolistic tendencies that discourage future entrepreneurship and job creating tendencies.

I really had no expectation of Obama overhauling the system. If one did, that's pretty self-indicting of one's knowledge of how the political system works. I think he's a smart person, I'm pretty on board with where he is politically and I believe in him as a good decision maker, especially relative to most people in politics. That's pretty much all I expect from a president.
amnesious
QUOTE (MattW @ Aug 29 2011, 09:26 AM) *
I'd say this was decades in the making too. If you take down as many financial and business regulations as were taken down in the 80s, you not only consolidate every industry into a set of 3-6 heavyweights reducing liabilities on their balances (ie: jobs) but they also strengthen their positions with strong lobbies to encourage monopolistic tendencies that discourage future entrepreneurship and job creating tendencies.

Yeah definately. It seems alot of people in the centre or centre left perhaps, blame everything on Bush without acknowledging the failures of the Clinton administration. No doubt that the tide began to turn in the 1980s though.
QUOTE
I really had no expectation of Obama overhauling the system. If one did, that's pretty self-indicting of one's knowledge of how the political system works. I think he's a smart person, I'm pretty on board with where he is politically and I believe in him as a good decision maker, especially relative to most people in politics. That's pretty much all I expect from a president.

I agree. Im sure he is frustrated as hell that he hasn't been able to push through as much stuff as he would have liked. It would drive you fucking insane.

dice
would we be better off w/ a president mccain? not by a longshot

most progressives feel the stimulus was too small, and they're probably right. the nonpartisan congressional budget office projects that unemployment would be 2% higher w/o the one we got though.
Montana
Democrats distancing themselves from Obama

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44358736/ns/po...cs-white_house/


...and rightly so. He's combative with his base and cordial and concilatory with right wingers. He's not even close to the person we thought he was. And with his likely approval of the sand tar pipeline, he's to the right of Reagan.

The problem Obama has (besides being perhaps the worst presidential negotiator in modern times) is that he so forcefully ditched his base that he's going to look like a snake oil salesmen as he crawls back to them during the campaign. Lame.
By-Tor
Face it, Montana-- you've always been a Republican.
Montana
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 1 2011, 06:28 PM) *
Face it, Montana-- you've always been a Republican.



It's pretty sad when an Obama apologist has been reduced to making comments such as that.
By-Tor
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 1 2011, 05:52 PM) *
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 1 2011, 06:28 PM) *
Face it, Montana-- you've always been a Republican.



It's pretty sad when an Obama apologist has been reduced to making comments such as that.


I'm not an apologist. I'm a supporter. Sure my president didn't get me everything he promised, but he got a lot of shit done. Frankly, I think he could get a lot more done with a SECOND TERM.

If America elects Rick Perry, I will personallyl take down our flag again.
Montana
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 1 2011, 06:57 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 1 2011, 05:52 PM) *
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 1 2011, 06:28 PM) *
Face it, Montana-- you've always been a Republican.



It's pretty sad when an Obama apologist has been reduced to making comments such as that.


I'm not an apologist. I'm a supporter. Sure my president didn't get me everything he promised, but he got a lot of shit done. Frankly, I think he could get a lot more done with a SECOND TERM.

If America elects Rick Perry, I will personallyl take down our flag again.



So you support the sand tar pipeline? If Perry wins, Obama's weak presidency is the reason.
dice
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 1 2011, 06:57 PM) *
Frankly, I think he could get a lot more done with a SECOND TERM.

unfortunately he won't have the congressional "support" he did at the beginning, so there's little chance of that

hoping for a bold jobs proposal, but not expecting one
MattW
I think if he gets re-elected, he doesn't have re-election to worry about and he actually could negotiate with some teeth.

One of the most interesting things I've ever heard Saddam Hussein say (paraphrasing, to his prison guard once caught) was that the 2 term limits for American presidents were absurd because any effective leader needs at least 5 years to get comfortable and capable in the cockpit. With a few exceptions in the last 50 years (JFK and Reagan) I would have to say I see his point, not that I would want to abolish them out of fear of the right electing a complete demagogue.
Montana
What a douche.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44372992/ns/us_news-environment/


"I have continued to underscore the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and regulatory uncertainty, particularly as our economy continues to recover," Obama said in a statement announcing the order.

Environmental activists immediately pounced on the move as a retreat by a weakened Obama administration trying to cut deals with Republicans in Congress. And the American Lung Association vowed to fight the move in court.



Nice to see Obama carry on the Bush admin agenda.


Obama caves again to GOP, big polluters

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/02/obam...overruling-epa/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/02/o...s_n_946557.html
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 01:58 PM) *

QUOTE
Obama said his decision was also meant to streamline future smog rulemaking.

"Work is already underway to update a 2006 review of the science that will result in the reconsideration of the ozone standard in 2013," he said. "Ultimately, I did not support asking state and local governments to begin implementing a new standard that will soon be reconsidered."


is this not a reasonable explanation, montana?
Montana
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 02:55 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 01:58 PM) *

QUOTE
Obama said his decision was also meant to streamline future smog rulemaking.

"Work is already underway to update a 2006 review of the science that will result in the reconsideration of the ozone standard in 2013," he said. "Ultimately, I did not support asking state and local governments to begin implementing a new standard that will soon be reconsidered."


is this not a reasonable explanation, montana?



No, it's an excuse. Waiting until 2013 to fix Bush's "indefensible" air regulations is not a reasonable explanation. And his logic of "streamlining the regs" is exactly the kind of propaganda Bush used while stalling and never fixing any of these issues.

The new regulations would've saved about 12,000 lives a year and added jobs. Nothing is more important than clean air and water. It is the foundation of our god damn existence.

BTW, nice to see Obama continue to parrot GOP talking points. Rather than talking about the benefits of clean air, he's repeating their bullshit about regs hurting the economy. The truth is that these regs would have added jobs, and all sorts of new tech and development programs are kicked off by engineers figuring out ways to filter industrial exhaust.

You can try and spin it any way you want, but this is a step backwards for everyone. This is one of those issues that has a real life impact on everyone in the country.

Sad that Obama is just a right winger. Really sad.
Montana
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/02/1...ssed?via=blog_1


You know you're on the wrong side of the tracks when the American Lung Association sues you.

Wow how Obama has fallen.

The American Lung Association filed suit against the EPA following the weak Bush standards but dropped it after the Obama administration said it was going to reconsider. The group issued a statement on Friday signaling that it will revive the suit now that the Obama administration has signaled that it is not going to improve the standard, which is a violation of the Clean Air Act, the group says.

Perhaps most disturbing is that the White House double-crossed its supporters, telling them for a couple years new rules were on the way. Shameful. Obama and his idiot advisors bow at the feet of the GOP and shit on the people that actually got them in office. Bizarre.

This article explains this quite well:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-k...prss=ezra-klein


We're all breathing air based on 1997 standards. The Obama admin told supporters in 2008 to hold off on the lawsuits they filed against Bush because new regs were coming. Today, they said "fuck you" to those supporters and kept the Bush rules.

Bad politics. Bad air. Bad.
By-Tor
Silly of me to discuss this with you, but I still think you're nit-picking. DO you honestly think there is any other party candidate that would have a better evironmental agenda?

Obama passed healthcare reform, and he's ending the war, while he's been trying to pull our economy out of George Bush's out-house.

Lose a few, win a few. Maybe you don't fully understand the nature of the give and take of the American politik.
Montana
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 2 2011, 04:34 PM) *
Silly of me to discuss this with you, but I still think you're nit-picking. DO you honestly think there is any other party candidate that would have a better evironmental agenda?


Are you stoned right now? Do yourself a favor when the high wears off and read democratic websites. Anyone who cares about water, air, land and wildlife is raging right now, and rightfully so. Obama's record is garbage, and yes, all the other choices were better in this regard.

QUOTE
Obama passed healthcare reform, and he's ending the war,


He passed Bob Dole's health care plan and tossed out the PO and single payer for no reason. He hasn't ended any war, in fact he got involved with a new one.


QUOTE
while he's been trying to pull our economy out of George Bush's out-house.


Has he? I haven't seen much evidence. What I saw was a president bailing out the banks and using GOP talking points about the deficit. When unions we're taking a beating in Wisconsin, he hid.

Why am I not surprised you've failed to refute this original issue, and instead presented a lukewarm Hallmark card as "proof" that Obama is a good president?
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:54 PM) *
He passed Bob Dole's health care plan and tossed out the PO and single payer for no reason

because they had no chance of passing?

QUOTE
He hasn't ended any war, in fact he got involved with a new one

rolleyes.gif

i'm very disappointed at the very limited progress that has been made under obama. but hyperbole is not necessary to make your point
Montana
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 05:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:54 PM) *
He passed Bob Dole's health care plan and tossed out the PO and single payer for no reason

because they had no chance of passing?



Uh...that's not close to being true. And even if it were, look up "Overton Window" and see how the Obama admin has failed spectacularly at applying it.


QUOTE
i'm very disappointed at the very limited progress that has been made under obama. but hyperbole is not necessary to make your point



Escape from this conversation while you can before I shred your argument like a great white to a hunk of bluefin.
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 05:22 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 05:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:54 PM) *
He passed Bob Dole's health care plan and tossed out the PO and single payer for no reason

because they had no chance of passing?



Uh...that's not close to being true

what in the world are you talking about? the mealy mouthed piece of legislation that we ended up with barely passed. how did a public option, let alone single payer have a shot
Montana
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 05:42 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 05:22 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 05:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:54 PM) *
He passed Bob Dole's health care plan and tossed out the PO and single payer for no reason

because they had no chance of passing?



Uh...that's not close to being true

what in the world are you talking about? the mealy mouthed piece of legislation that we ended up with barely passed. how did a public option, let alone single payer have a shot



It barely passed because Obama insisted on "town hall" meetings and dragging out the entire process to the point where the GOP spin machine and insurance companies could hack it to pieces. Instead of passing health care right away when he had a huge mandate, he was busy letting it hang out to dry while bailing out the banks. It's pretty much common knowledge that he misused his early office time.
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 07:02 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 05:42 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 05:22 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 05:12 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:54 PM) *
He passed Bob Dole's health care plan and tossed out the PO and single payer for no reason

because they had no chance of passing?



Uh...that's not close to being true

what in the world are you talking about? the mealy mouthed piece of legislation that we ended up with barely passed. how did a public option, let alone single payer have a shot



It barely passed because Obama insisted on "town hall" meetings and dragging out the entire process to the point where the GOP spin machine and insurance companies could hack it to pieces. Instead of passing health care right away when he had a huge mandate, he was busy letting it hang out to dry while bailing out the banks. It's pretty much common knowledge that he misused his early office time.

even if his reason was diverting his time to bailing out the banks (and it would've been playing russian roulette if the bailout had not occurred) , that's not "tossing out the PO and single payer for no reason"

if he misused the early portion of his tenure (which can certainly be argued), it's not common knowledge that he did so. what IS common knowledge is that his political advisers (rahm in particular) wanted him to drop the health care fight entirely. he refused. clearly he was committed to the issue
Angrimorfee
I have to admit...Montana may be anti-Obama, but at least he is more rational about it than any other anti-Obamist (?) I have seen online.
Merle
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:06 PM) *


QUOTE
And if a new president hostile to environmental regulation comes into office — Rick Perry, say — then the EPA may never get around to issuing new ozone rules


QUOTE (Montana @ Aug 28 2011, 08:16 PM) *
I'll take Perry's predictable insanity over Obama's heart-wrenching betrayal.


good plan, Dumdum.
Montana
QUOTE (Merle @ Sep 2 2011, 08:42 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 04:06 PM) *


QUOTE
And if a new president hostile to environmental regulation comes into office — Rick Perry, say — then the EPA may never get around to issuing new ozone rules


QUOTE (Montana @ Aug 28 2011, 08:16 PM) *
I'll take Perry's predictable insanity over Obama's heart-wrenching betrayal.


good plan, Dumdum.



That's the thing. I know what Perry will do, just like I knew what Bush was going to do. But I voted for a supposed Democrat, which makes Obama's acceptance of Bush's plan all the more heartwrenching. At least Bush listens to his base. He had that going for him, didn't he? Obama lies to his base, ignores them, and then does what the other guys want.

Fantastic.

Good diary today on the massive fallout from this insane Obama decision:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/02/1...se-?via=siderec
undo
You're turning on him just like they want you to.

I don't really get what this "but I knew where Bush stood!" argument is supposed to prove. "His base is turning on him!" O RLY?
dice
there's one thing i can almost guarantee: when obama makes a decision, he thinks he's doing the right thing for the country in the big picture/long-term. is he weak? too conciliatory? perhaps. but his heart's in the right place
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 09:06 PM) *
Good diary today on the massive fallout from this insane Obama decision:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/02/1...se-?via=siderec

"Yes, there have been tremendous successes to point to after the disastrous eight years of the Cheney-Bush anything-goes era. There are reasons to be proud in many Administration actions that will improve health, reduce reliance on dangerous fossil fuels, improve our balance of payments, and improve American competitiveness."
Montana
Dice, care to stick to the issue at hand? I notice you really haven't defended the move with any specifics.
Montana
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 09:31 PM) *
there's one thing i can almost guarantee: when obama makes a decision, he thinks he's doing the right thing for the country in the big picture/long-term. is he weak? too conciliatory? perhaps. but his heart's in the right place



Another Obama apologist brings out the watered down Hallmark Card tactic. Not changing likely illegal clean air violations so less people die is not having "your heart in the right place". It's a capitulation to polluters and Cantor/Boehner, just like the Sand Tar pipeline disaster will be. Telling Wheezy Timmy that he's going to have to "suck it up" is about as far away from "heart" as you can get.

Enjoy your Ozone Warning days.
Montana
QUOTE (undo @ Sep 2 2011, 09:14 PM) *
You're turning on him just like they want you to.


It has nothing to do with "they", but rather a series of actions that paint a particular political stance. Obama has boxed himself in by repeating GOP talking points for the past two years. His poll numbers are crashing. What he and his advisors are doing is not working.

QUOTE
I don't really get what this "but I knew where Bush stood!" argument is supposed to prove. "His base is turning on him!" O RLY?


O RLY?

President Barack Obama is losing support from his base, according to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll released on Tuesday that finds his backing from liberals and African-Americans has plummeted.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/...l#ixzz1Wr46eul5

What might be most noteworthy in this week’s poll is how bad Obama’s numbers are with a few key and usually dependable Democratic constituencies. He’s under water in union households at 44/47. He’s also under water with voters under 30 at 45/48

http://elections.firedoglake.com/2011/08/3...-from-his-base/



Do you think this is going over well with his base at places like DU? Take a look:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...4982628#4983442


Wake up, apologists. Obama is a Repub in Dem clothing. He's pushing the country to the right in a big way. Underwater with those below 30 and union households? LOL! Good Dem prez.
Angrimorfee
I am inclined to take back what I said about you less than a few hours ago, Mont. huh.gif huh.gif
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 09:53 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 09:31 PM) *
there's one thing i can almost guarantee: when obama makes a decision, he thinks he's doing the right thing for the country in the big picture/long-term. is he weak? too conciliatory? perhaps. but his heart's in the right place

Another Obama apologist brings out the watered down Hallmark Card tactic

i'm just being rational. you simply can't do what you want whenever you want. obama recognizes that

QUOTE
Not changing likely illegal clean air violations so less people die is not having "your heart in the right place".

another obama hater plays the 'take statement out of context' card
Montana
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 10:20 PM) *
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 09:53 PM) *
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 2 2011, 09:31 PM) *
there's one thing i can almost guarantee: when obama makes a decision, he thinks he's doing the right thing for the country in the big picture/long-term. is he weak? too conciliatory? perhaps. but his heart's in the right place

Another Obama apologist brings out the watered down Hallmark Card tactic

i'm just being rational. you simply can't do what you want whenever you want. obama recognizes that


That's a fair point, but not in the context of Obama. The place where the executive branch has the most power is over the the EPA, Department of Agriculture and Department of the Interior. An adminsitration *can* do what they want here. This bizarre decision by Obama was something he had complete power over. He just decided to screw his base, and the American people in general since we all breathe air. What this means is that either you don't understand how power flows from the executive branch, or you're totally irrational.


QUOTE
another obama hater plays the 'take statement out of context' card



I voted for Obama. I even made calls. But he's turned out to be a Republican. There are many, many good democrats who feel the same way. See the links I posted.

Obama is losing his base. It's pathetic when one of the biggest democratic site has this as the top diary:

"Obama, just stop with the Republican talking points"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/02/1...nts?via=siderec
dice
QUOTE (Montana @ Sep 2 2011, 11:13 PM) *
The place where the executive branch has the most power is over the the EPA, Department of Agriculture and Department of the Interior. An adminsitration *can* do what they want here. This bizarre decision by Obama was something he had complete power over. He just decided to screw his base, and the American people in general since we all breathe air. What this means is that either you don't understand how power flows from the executive branch, or you're totally irrational.

so what is obama's thought process here? it obviously isn't "i'm gonna irrationally screw over my base." and that's my point. you're lashing out in righteous indignation whereas i reasonably suppose that there is more to the story. there has to be. if it's not obama's stated reasoning with regard to the timing and implementation of new legislation, it's gotta be something else. political horse trading perhaps. whatever it is, however misguided, it's probably not borne of irrationality

QUOTE
I voted for Obama. I even made calls. But he's turned out to be a Republican. There are many, many good democrats who feel the same way. See the links I posted.

Obama is losing his base. It's pathetic when one of the biggest democratic site has this as the top diary:

"Obama, just stop with the Republican talking points"

you're conflating liberalism and the democratic party. the democratic party is more moderate than liberal. that's the sad truth. the reality is that we live in a right of center nation. given our two party system a strong leftist party is highly unlikely to sustain traction

1 being the most liberal, 10 being the most conservative, the democratic party is about a 4, the republicans maybe a 9. the two sides are roughly equal in popular support and it seems that the democrats are more willing to compromise/bigger pushovers. this puts the legislative balance at around a 7 overall. and that equals eternal frustration for american liberals
Montana
QUOTE (dice @ Sep 3 2011, 12:06 AM) *
so what is obama's thought process here?


Good question.


QUOTE
it obviously isn't "i'm gonna irrationally screw over my base." and that's my point. you're lashing out in righteous indignation whereas i reasonably suppose that there is more to the story. there has to be.


I've provided the links explaining the story.

QUOTE
if it's not obama's stated reasoning with regard to the timing and implementation of new legislation, it's gotta be something else. political horse trading perhaps. whatever it is, however misguided, it's probably not borne of irrationality


He made a bad decision and that's it. There isn't some 11 dimensional chess game going on here. That's part of the apologetic process you seem to be engaging in. He's made terrible decisions the last year or so on everything from the Bush tax cuts, the debt, the environment, etc.

QUOTE
you're conflating liberalism and the democratic party. the democratic party is more moderate than liberal. that's the sad truth. the reality is that we live in a right of center nation. given our two party system a strong leftist party is highly unlikely to sustain traction


That's not true at all. If you look at specific topics and how they poll, progressive agendas almost always outpoll conservatiive. The problem is the conservatives are much better at messaging and campaigning. The dems get stuck with weaklings like Obama and the rest is history.
theminimumcircus
There's no question that Obama's support is eroding in nearly every voting cohort, except blacks. That he's losing "liberals" is simply part and parcel of that erosion in support, not something exceptional really.

undo
He's probably losing "swing voters" AKA dumb dipshits who're swayed by the breeze.
Montana
QUOTE (undo @ Sep 4 2011, 05:16 PM) *
He's probably losing "swing voters" AKA dumb dipshits who're swayed by the breeze.



No, he's losing his base.
undo
To whom?
theminimumcircus
QUOTE (undo @ Sep 4 2011, 05:16 PM) *
He's probably losing "swing voters" AKA dumb dipshits who're swayed by the breeze.


Not exactly, his support has dropped among a number of groups. Obviously, his support remains strongest among self-described liberals. That's no great surprise. Nevertheless, he's even beginning to lose some of those liberals. The only unchanged group is African Americans.

I think the "he's losing his base" talk is a tad overplayed. The fact is the economy is not only bad, but getting a good bit worse, and really, no one does well under those conditions.

We're about to head into another recession, which means that employers are going to start shedding jobs again, not slowly adding them. I can't imagine Obama winning in 2012 if October 2012's jobs numbers show net losses.
By-Tor
Yep. the job numbers have to get bettter for Obama to win a 2nd term, so maybe in order to get these jobs, (and the support needed for initiatives) he's having to do some horse trading with the GOP right now.

It's either that, or Montana's right about everything.

You decide.

As disappointed as I might be with Obama, I'm way more disappointed in these crazy folks that still think that any president can just get into office and change everything overnight, etc.

That's pure American voter naivete.
Montana
QUOTE (By-Tor @ Sep 4 2011, 08:42 PM) *
As disappointed as I might be with Obama, I'm way more disappointed in these crazy folks that still think that any president can just get into office and change everything overnight, etc.

That's pure American voter naivete.



No question about that. But it's not unrealistic to expect a supposed democratic president to not parrot GOP talking points and shun the environment (a core platform in the democratic party). I expect a democrat to:

1. Not pass Bush tax cuts
2. Rebuke the Bush admin torture policy
3. Issue stronger air quality regulations the Bush/Cheney
4. Not attack the ESA
5. Not put SS and Medicare on the cutting board


Equating Obama's right wing decisions in the last year with exaggerated voter expectations is dishonest at best, and also manages to push the Democratic party further to the right.
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