dice
Nov 11 2011, 07:57 AM
Montana
Nov 30 2011, 07:04 PM
Obama admin ignores grazing effects in huge BLM study:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/env...0mDO_story.htmlSo much for the "science administration". What a crock of shit that was. Grazing is the biggest destroyer of rangeland biodiversity. More capitulation to industry.
undo
Nov 30 2011, 11:33 PM
Montana
Dec 1 2011, 12:56 AM
Expecting a democratic president to value democratic platforms isn't unreasonable. Obama pissed away two years of his mandate on bipartisan nonsense. In the end, that's why he'll lose. He deserves to.
Mitchell
Dec 1 2011, 01:04 AM
He won't lose, the GOP candidates are all terrible even for GOP candidates.
Montana
Dec 1 2011, 01:21 AM
QUOTE (Mitchell @ Dec 1 2011, 02:04 AM)

He won't lose, the GOP candidates are all terrible even for GOP candidates.
George W. Bush.
It doesn't matter how bad the GOP candiate is. Americans don't vote for fake dems. Never have, never will. They see it as spineless. They'll accept batshit crazy as long as it has a spine. The GOP campaign will take the "hope and change" thing and sink Obama's poll numbers while his campaign feebles and flops around arguing over the high road, which of course they'll take,and of course it will be too late to recover.
dice
Dec 1 2011, 10:41 AM
QUOTE (Montana @ Dec 1 2011, 12:21 AM)

QUOTE (Mitchell @ Dec 1 2011, 02:04 AM)

He won't lose, the GOP candidates are all terrible even for GOP candidates.
George W. Bush.
nobody likes romney
undo
Dec 1 2011, 12:30 PM
QUOTE (Montana @ Nov 30 2011, 11:56 PM)

he'll lose. He deserves to.
nah
QUOTE (Montana @ Dec 1 2011, 12:21 AM)

The GOP campaign will take the "hope and change" thing and sink Obama's poll numbers
yeah this sounds unbeatable, he's finished!
MattW
Dec 1 2011, 01:03 PM
Also there's the fund raising thing.
tjenz
Dec 1 2011, 02:20 PM
Based on Montana's wisdom, Obama & Biden should just resign now and let Boner take over.
dice
Dec 1 2011, 06:14 PM
intrade has gingrich closing the gap mightily on romney over the past week or so. and yet obama still just a slight favorite for reelection
Montana
Dec 1 2011, 06:41 PM
QUOTE (Captain Marvel @ Dec 1 2011, 02:20 PM)

Based on Montana's wisdom, Obama & Biden should just resign now and let Boner take over.
There wouldn't be much difference. Both have the cap off the lube, beckoning corporations with glistening fingers.
Montana
Dec 4 2011, 07:26 AM
Moo & Oink
Dec 14 2011, 11:21 AM
As the threat of another government shutdown looms large, the Democrats should once again prove how spineless they are by totally giving in to the GOP's demands. Middle class tax plan my ass.
undo
Dec 14 2011, 03:29 PM
Huh?
Cinnamon P.
Dec 15 2011, 02:27 PM
QUOTE (Moo & Oink @ Dec 14 2011, 12:21 PM)

As the threat of another government shutdown looms large, the Democrats should once again prove how spineless they are by totally giving in to the GOP's demands. Middle class tax plan my ass.
I'm sorry, what are you talking about?
Moo & Oink
Dec 15 2011, 03:55 PM
Don't ya watch the news go fuck yourself
undo
Dec 15 2011, 04:01 PM
what happened?
MattW
Dec 15 2011, 04:25 PM
Millionaire Surtax getting voted downQUOTE
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- It looks like the millionaire surtax is going down again.
Democrats have pushed for weeks to impose a millionaire surtax to help pay for the cost of extending the payroll tax cut. Republicans have said it would be a job-killer.
Wednesday night, with time running out before Congress adjourns for the year, it appeared that Democrats were ready to give up in the name of getting a deal done. A source told CNN that Senate Democrats would propose a new plan that did not include the tax.
The demise of this version of the millionaire tax would not be a surprise. Lawmakers have already voted down a surtax of 5.6%, then 3.25% and most recently 1.9%.
But the idea of taxing the rich will come up again and again next year, since themes of income inequality and tax fairness will be sounded repeatedly on the campaign trail.
Urban Institute resident fellow Howard Gleckman points out that an extra tax on millionaires may make for great politics but it would make for awful policy, although not for the reasons that many in the GOP suggest.
Republicans still cleave to the notion that to ever ask millionaires to pay more in taxes will bring the economy to a screeching halt because it would hurt small business job creation.
But there are problems with that reasoning:
--A very small percentage of tax filers with business income make more than $1 million.
--There is no way to tell how many new jobs those millionaires create.
--And business income can come from activities that don't result in a lot of hiring, such as owning rental property or investing in a partnership.
For Gleckman, a big problem with the millionaire surtax is that it feeds the myth that the super rich can pay for everything. They can't. There are not enough of them.
And by applying a surtax here and a surtax there, soon you're talking serious rate creep -- to levels that could be counterproductive. The higher rates become the more likely it is that the rich will look for ways to avoid paying them.
If the Bush tax cuts expire, the top rate goes to 39.6% and the value of certain deductions goes down. Add in a new Medicare tax for high-income households starting in 2013, and the top rate could approach 50% if Congress passed a 5.6% surtax, Gleckman noted.
Despite the flaws in the parties' strategies -- Democrats always reach first to tax the rich and Republicans always rush to protect them even at the expense of everyone else -- each contains a bit of truth the other side will have to accept sooner or later.
Both the rich and the middle class eventually will have to contribute to efforts to spur the economy and stabilize the federal budget.
"Democrats today can't solve our nation's many budgetary woes primarily by taxing the rich, and Republicans risk alienating the middle class when they try to spare the rich from sharing the additional burdens most Americans soon must bear," former Treasury official Eugene Steuerle wrote in his public policy column "The Government We Deserve."
The rich will have to pay more in taxes, he notes, because even if spending is cut across the board, they won't feel the pinch since they don't rely on government spending to get by.
And the middle class will eventually need to accept some spending cuts and tax increases, Steuerle said, "not because the rich can't pay more, but because most income in the economy resides with that 80 percent of the population that is neither poor nor rich."
tjenz
Dec 15 2011, 04:49 PM
I work for a Fortune 500 company. They are not going to hire more people because they got a tax break. They will just use that $$ to add to the profits.
They will hire more people when we have more customers and need more people to serve those customers.
dice
Dec 16 2011, 10:01 AM
boehner says keystone pipeline rider to be attached to ANY payroll tax cut extension
MattW
Dec 16 2011, 01:03 PM
Doesn't this not getting done immediately go against the Grover Norquist pledge?
dice
Dec 16 2011, 06:17 PM
QUOTE (MattW @ Dec 16 2011, 12:03 PM)

Doesn't this not getting done immediately go against the Grover Norquist pledge?
only in spirit. republicans will be presumably be voting FOR an oily tax cut extension and happily run the risk of an obama veto
undo
Jan 23 2012, 05:52 PM
QUOTE (dice @ Dec 16 2011, 09:01 AM)

boehner says keystone pipeline rider to be attached to ANY payroll tax cut extension
By-Tor
Jan 25 2012, 07:43 PM
Great SOTU address. Sometimes I still wonder why dickhead Republican congressmen don't get inspired when he comes for a visit. Then I remember that they're dickheads.
Hard (very hard) to fucking believe that the big O will still extend olive branches to the Ents, but to each his own, I guess. There were a lot of GOP compromises in that speech, not to mention a lot of lauding of business and America rah rah stuff. (Anad don't forget the oil/nat. gas stuff!) I really think he makes it hard for Republicans to dislike him. Obama might turn out to be the "great moderate" - maybe the greatest we'll every have.--SHit, did you see how he (dare I say) slighted parted with the teacher's unions, by (gasp) sneaking in the idea that bad teachers should be fired?
How about changing the drop out age to 18? That's a damn good idea.
Pat Sansone
Jan 25 2012, 09:39 PM
I agree it was a good speech, but let's not go overboard. Saying you're for firing bad teachers once a year in a speech isn't really that gutsy of a move. He's been saying it for years now too. And the "greatest moderate?" I don't see what makes him any more effectively moderate than Clinton.
My favorite part of the evening was when Mitch Daniels offered the gem: "When the people of Indiana ask me what they can do to help our state, I tell them to make a ton of money and start hiring a lot of people." Great advice, Mitch!
Angrimorfee
Jan 25 2012, 11:19 PM
QUOTE (Pat Sansone @ Jan 25 2012, 10:39 PM)

And the "greatest moderate?" I don't see what makes him any more effectively moderate than Clinton.
Indeed, the PBS commentator afterward characterized much of the speech content as rather "Clintonian.'
By-Tor
Jan 26 2012, 07:56 PM
QUOTE (Pat Sansone @ Jan 25 2012, 08:39 PM)

I agree it was a good speech, but let's not go overboard. Saying you're for firing bad teachers once a year in a speech isn't really that gutsy of a move. He's been saying it for years now too. And the "greatest moderate?" I don't see what makes him any more effectively moderate than Clinton.
My favorite part of the evening was when Mitch Daniels offered the gem: "When the people of Indiana ask me what they can do to help our state, I tell them to make a ton of money and start hiring a lot of people." Great advice, Mitch!
I meant the MOST
moderate Pres.
Obama's greatness is still being determined. Let's see what 2014 and the Affordable Care Act look like.
Pat Sansone
Jan 26 2012, 08:14 PM
If it's not dismantled by the Supreme Court by then!
Moo & Oink
Jan 27 2012, 04:36 PM
When I drove through town today, I noticed a whole bunch of signs posted in front of the US Post Office, many of them saying to impeach Obama, as well as not to dismantle NASA. I don't know if the signs are a direct rebuttal of Obama's State of the Union address last week, but a lot people up in my neck of the woods breed an abnormal amount of hatred toward the man in general It's this type of political climate that allowed a buffoon like Joe Walsh to get elected. I hate having to live in this intolerant & blissfully right-wing county (Lake), but until my situation improves, I have no choice.
Pat Sansone
Jan 27 2012, 07:00 PM
Oh shit, yeah. I know some people from Lake County. I know what you mean. Stay strong. There are some folks like that out in the NW burbs where I grew up and my parents live. But it's not the same as when you start getting even further away from the city.
tjenz
Mar 5 2012, 04:30 PM
Moving G8 summit from Chicago to Camp David.
That is one way to avoid the protestors.
Sid! Hartha
Apr 2 2012, 10:04 AM
dice
Apr 2 2012, 11:30 AM
so it seems the supreme court will rule that the federal gov can't force people to buy health insurance, but it can tax them to pay for health insurance that the gov provides. and that distinction will bring down obamacare. as the kids like to say, smh
maybe this is a good thing in the long term, as the for-profit health care system is no longer a potential solution. single payer or expansion of medicare in 15-20 years?
Montana
Apr 2 2012, 06:09 PM
QUOTE (dice @ Apr 2 2012, 11:30 AM)

so it seems the supreme court will rule that the federal gov can't force people to buy health insurance, but it can tax them to pay for health insurance that the gov provides. and that distinction will bring down obamacare. as the kids like to say, smh
Sounds like single payer, which is what OBama and the insurance companies didn't want. Weak democrats.
dice
Apr 3 2012, 09:49 PM
QUOTE (Montana @ Apr 2 2012, 06:09 PM)

QUOTE (dice @ Apr 2 2012, 11:30 AM)

so it seems the supreme court will rule that the federal gov can't force people to buy health insurance, but it can tax them to pay for health insurance that the gov provides. and that distinction will bring down obamacare. as the kids like to say, smh
Sounds like single payer, which is what OBama and the insurance companies didn't want. Weak democrats.
i think we've been over this. you know as well as i do that obama wants single payer. he just knew it wasn't possible yet when obamacare was concocted. look no further than hillary's spectacular healthcare failure in the first term of the clinton administration
Montana
Apr 4 2012, 01:08 PM
It was possible. He had one of the largest mandates in recent times, and fumbled it away on "let's be buddies".
dice
Apr 4 2012, 05:18 PM
QUOTE (Montana @ Apr 4 2012, 01:08 PM)

It was possible. He had one of the largest mandates in recent times, and fumbled it away on "let's be buddies".
well, we know for sure republican senators weren't gonna go for single payer. which means that every single democratic senator as well as lieberman had to vote for it. wasn't gonna ever happen. they barely got through the half baked measures that they did
Montana
Apr 4 2012, 05:33 PM
It would've easily passed when the election mandate was at its peak. Instead, they dragegd their feet and didn't get going until months later. By that point the GOP and industry had a gameplan.
Angrimorfee
Apr 4 2012, 05:37 PM
I wouldnt characterize a Supreme Court ruling as a mere fumble. Iregardless, I never was a proponent for the mandate and I actually applaud the Court's ruling.
Pat Sansone
Apr 4 2012, 08:14 PM
These last few posts have been pretty miserable.
Duff.
Apr 5 2012, 06:14 AM
QUOTE (Angrimorfee @ Apr 4 2012, 05:37 PM)

I wouldnt characterize a Supreme Court ruling as a mere fumble. Iregardless, I never was a proponent for the mandate and I actually applaud the Court's ruling.
What ruling.
Angrimorfee
Apr 5 2012, 06:37 AM
QUOTE (Duff. @ Apr 5 2012, 06:14 AM)

QUOTE (Angrimorfee @ Apr 4 2012, 05:37 PM)

I wouldnt characterize a Supreme Court ruling as a mere fumble. Iregardless, I never was a proponent for the mandate and I actually applaud the Court's ruling.
What ruling.
Per Dice, 1 page back.
QUOTE
so it seems the supreme court will rule that the federal gov can't force people to buy health insurance, .....
For the top news stories regarding legislative matters, I always rely on Dice.
Duff.
Apr 5 2012, 08:01 AM
They'll make their ruling in June.
No one likes the mandate (except The Heritage Foundation!) but it's how the rest of the law is paid for. And should the Supreme Court strike it down it'll be more because they don't like it, not because it's unconstitutional, which is nothing to applaud.
MattW
Apr 5 2012, 08:11 AM
It was basically Bob Dole's idea in the 90s. I actually like it a lot fiscally. It's working in Massachusettes from a fiscal perspective. It's too bad Romney is not allowed to say so. The other thing too is that there are several avenues built into the bill that help people meet the requirements when they cannot afford coverage. The bill was so massive that things like that got lost in the message though.
This issue is that when you have a good idea that's complicated, detractors will always appeal to 'common sense' and a simplistic form of the alternative. In this case, the appeal towards the mandate hampering on 'your freedom' is just too easy.
bleach
Apr 5 2012, 09:58 AM
QUOTE (MattW @ Apr 5 2012, 08:11 AM)

The other thing too is that there are several avenues built into the bill that help people meet the requirements when they cannot afford coverage. The bill was so massive that things like that got lost in the message though.
i was thinking about this the other day. as great as president obama is on the campaign trail, he (and his admin) have had a problem with getting what should be main selling points across to the general public. every time he talks about his healthcare plan, this (above: bolded) should be a bullet in his powerpoint. every time.
dice
Apr 5 2012, 11:50 AM
QUOTE (Montana @ Apr 4 2012, 05:33 PM)

It would've easily passed when the election mandate was at its peak. Instead, they dragegd their feet and didn't get going until months later. By that point the GOP and industry had a gameplan.
i do agree that they dragged their feet. but i don't think a massive campaign against single payer was avoidable
dice
Apr 5 2012, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (Angrimorfee @ Apr 5 2012, 06:37 AM)

For the top news stories regarding legislative matters, I always rely on Dice.
your sincerity is palpable

intrade actually only has the chances of the mandate being ruled unconstitutional at 62-64%. but the media is suggesting it's a pretty bankable scenario
Duff.
Apr 5 2012, 01:19 PM
Don't follow InTrade but even at 65% against, that's a huge shift from where conventional wisdom was going into the hearings.
MattW
Apr 5 2012, 02:12 PM
It all comes down to Kennedy. There are 4 neo-cons and 4 lefties, and whatever Kennedy rules in favor of his idea of 'liberty.' He's the reason why Roe v. Wade hasn't been overturned, but then again
this complete horseshit ruling just happened too and Kennedy wrote the explanation. The tone of Kennedy's questioning made it seem like he was leaning towards ruling it unconstitutional. If the clown arguing for the law somehow made the case that the government not doing this is going to help the insurance lobby's grip on rising health care costs, thus hampering freedom for those living with these astronomical expenses, then maybe there's a shot he'll side with the ladies (and Breyer).
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