Yeah, but he was Leonard Cohen.

true.

just saying a great range does not always equal an interesting/great singer and vice versa.

Matt definitely does not need to worry about attempting anything in the realm of complex vocals. Bringing back a scream or two would be nice.

Yeah what the hell. I thought early interviews said there would be screaming on this one.

He said it would be more so than Boxer but not as much as Alligator. I guess he was referring to Afraid of Everyone?

I'm excited to hear a mix where the drumming pops a little more. They are a "grower band," it seems, with most people, in that they're albums reveal themselves more and more over time. With some bands it's the lyrics that come to the fore over time, but with this band it's always been the percussion. I think there's a surface dread on this record that might get it lumped in with boxer, and for me still its not as strong a record yet. There's no song here like Start a War, which had me hooked from the La Blogoteque performance all those years ago- to gravitate to immediately. There's nothing as overtly romantic, and I'm learning that this record has its own difficult mood to fall into. But even when mood is king with the national, it's always the drumming that, over time, starts pulling the individual songs out of that mood. So, it's taken a few listens to start feeling those heavy tom hits on Anybody's Ghost and the percussive strings in A Little Faith. There is that moroseness that often characterizes this band, but there's something here more vital than mood, and that's where this band really proves to be something special. The Dessner duo and Berninger's vocals take care of this mood, and always give the listener this distinct and always difficult character to work with. The Devendorf brothers, alternately, prove that this difficult character has blood, muscle and cracking bones, and in that moment when The National's rhythm section begins to click, the listener is dealing with something far more tangible to work with. I guess what I'm getting at is, for me, this band never really has the "I get that" moments as much as their music gives way to the sudden feeling that "It's alive!" and it happens because they are a true collaborative effort. This is a special thing.

i want to go on record as saying how great an album this is, especially as someone hasn't thought that highly of them in the past. while i've liked most of their old stuff (boxer less than most), they've always seemed to want to be more important than they've been. this feels like the first time they've fulfilled whatever potential they've had. plus, matt's vocal range is pretty good here, all things considered. he might not scream, and there are no mr. november's on the record, but he takes a sensitive enough approach to vocals, reaching higher than i can remember him reaching on boxer, going outside of his baritone comfort zone. great instrumentation, better lyrics than ever. just a really solid, substantial record. definite grower.

Wow - "England" - just wow.

This is sounding nice. The whole thing. But "England," "Terrible Love," "Anyone's Ghost," "Afraid of Everyone" and "Conversation 16" in particular.

I've heard every song on this album pointed out as someone's fav except for I think Little Faith. Which is promising as this continues to grow. Terrible Love, Sorrow, Afraid of Everyone, Bloodbuzz, Lemonworld, Runaway, England and Vanderlyle (over 2/3 the album!) are sounding just great to me right now.

ugh. decided i was gonna cave in and d/l the 192 tonight as opposed to waiting for the stream but it's gone. 2 more days...

I would re-up it for you but I don't wanna deter you from your effort of self control

the album is definitely good, in the same ballpark as boxer as the national go. not sure if it has an out and out pop/rock stunner like 'mistaken for strangers' or 'apartment story,' i guess 'bloodbuzz ohio' is the closest, a fine tune in its own right.

if i had to level a complaint though, and someone mentioned earlier about having a hard time sitting through the whole album, it's that, like berninger's vocals, the songs have a very narrow range of tone. the perspective is always one of being downtrodden, morose, weary. song after song it becomes monotonous.

i find the albums i return to most create a space that's more inviting and diverse, less narrow. just because you want to express sorrow, frustration, regret, sadness whatever doesn't mean the songs need to all be subdued, pained and keenly mannered. 'contra' or 'plastic beach' from this year are both good examples of what i'm talking about. they express a variety of emotions and sound consistently different doing it, more free and airy, even when they're tackling darker subjects. the result is an album that's more enjoyable to inhabit. when berninger sings of discontent or whatever he brings the same dreary solemnness to his performance, which is always accompanied by stately, earnest band arrangement. in album-long doses it's draining rather than energizing.

but yeah, within the context of how the national operate, this album is a success for sure. i'd just like to see them grow into something more dynamic.

Yeah, that's a good point. I mentioned how this album sucks you into its own world. It's a world of melancholy and city-life disenchantment and for the mood it tries to create, it succeeds wildly. They really can transport me into their story pretty vividly with their songwriting.

But for such an emotionally heavy album, I get how listening to it for long periods of time can be sort of taxing considering they don't let up from start to finish. This isn't windows-down, driving on a sunny day music.

But if you're in the right mood and willing to let yourself get sucked in to their world, this album can be really satisfying.

Now that I've heard the album, I'm curious which song is 'the one you can dance to', as mentioned in prior interviews.

I suppose you could slow dance to 'Runaway'.

I really want that 320 rip. Probably won't make a difference but I'm having a hard time coming fully to grips with this album, and a large part of that is the production.

huh... it's certainly a bit more lo-fi in spots, but i've got no big qualms with the production.

i love the record

This is sounding more and more like kind of a bummer record.

I like Alligator and Boxer a lot, but aren't sure how I'd feel about them without songs like the ones you mentioned to "lighten things up," as it were.

twicks, just wait until you hear it to reserve judgement honestly...

Bloodbuzz Ohio = comparable to Mistaken For Strangers
Terrible Love = comparable to Apartment Story
Lemonworld = a slightly slower Brainy
Conversation 16 = Guest Room

All this 'low quality version' business that gets thrown around is always a red herring. 320 won't make "Anyone's Ghost" less lethargic; it won't make "Sorrow" not sound like a demo, and it won't make "Terrible Love" the song it could have been. I like the album but I don't love it. Some of the approaches they've taken here are frustrating.

Still holding off. Want to make sure I hear the thing the way it should be heard.

Great description.

Honestly, I never thought this would have happened, considering how huge of a fanboy I was in 2006/7, but I don't even know what I think about this album.

I'll report back in a month.

All I know is that "Runaway" is the song for me right now.

Anybody else feel like there maybe aren't enough lyrics on this? Lots of repetition. -Runaway being the biggest offender. I pretty much agree with all of what listening wind said up there. And this is one of my favorite bands... We'll see if I warm up to it in the next couple weeks I guess. Don't remember being overwhelmed by Boxer initially. For now nothing on here comes close to packing the emotional punch of say Apartment Story, or Start a War, or Slow Show or really anything on Boxer now that I think about it? And they're all kind of "sounds-like." -That said, England/Vanderlyle is a pretty formidable ending.

+1

promos sound more or less the same as the leak from earlier this week. and anyhow, i don't know what people are complaining about. not all the songs are up to par with the best of their older albums, but enough songs are. and even those second tier songs are arranged in ways that keep them interesting and worthwhile. easily the best, most consistent album they've done. there are at least 4-5 songs i flat out love, which is more than i can say for boxer.

I feel the same. I'm kind of in denial actually. Don't get me wrong, this is a great album, it's just that I had fully expected something on Boxer's level, which was of course silly of me. That said, Boxer took a while to grow on me so I'm not passing judgment on this yet by any means.

I think this album is quite possibly fantastic but coming off of two albums in the same style it gets a little hard to tell where opinion on the actual music begins and opinion on "other things" begins if you know what i mean.

that's my wisdom for you guys


so what i mean is that I loved Alligator and Boxer, but in the two years that have passed I've grown in certain ways, while it seems that the National has remained a little bit too much the same for me to continue being a huge fan. and really, what's the fact of it is, they are somewhat doomed as a band.


i could be wrong, but where do they go from here? they have literally created their own genre and style of music, there is nothing else out there like it. i'll say it again: Alligator and Boxer are 1 of a kind records in terms of atmosphere, lyrical content, and style.


i tried to make a good post and got tired of thinking hard so i'll just leave it at that

my opinion on this album is that it's great but as a music listener i'm not currently in the mood for it. it's the kind of thing that maybe a few years/decades down the line i'll look back on it, unbiased, and love it, but for now it isn't fitting. i wish The National all the best, seriously, great band.

no it's not in the same realm (yet) as Boxer or Alligator, but it's a DAMN fine record all the same.
there's not a single track on the album i dislike.

certainly not disappointed with it on the whole

they've always been a band that slowly chips away, refines and tweaks their sound from record to record rather than makes big departures, and this album is certainly no different in that regard.

Nixon, I don't know if I have any qualms with the lyrics - but there's certainly nothing as solid, lyrically, as "Fake Empire" or "Green Gloves"; similarly there aren't any great images I admire as much as "the silvery, silvery Citibank lights", for instance. But with Berninger it's more about the phrasing, anyway, like in "Runaway": "I won't be no runaway / Cause I. Won't. Run." It's a fairly pedestrian lyric, but it becomes the most affecting moment on the album, for me, with its careful phrasing.

On the other hand, the line "Your voice is swallowing my soul" from "Afraid of Everyone" is a Bono-bag of mixed metaphors, and way beneath Berninger as a lyricist.

"Runaway" is tops, as of now, even though it's a year and a half old. So that's a little disappointing. "Vanderlyle" could overtake that with time. I think the first three songs are fantastic but I have issues with each of the recordings. I know it's old news to complain about them fucking up "Terrible Love", but shit. When I saw that Fallon performance I imagined that song being some kind of crossover hit. Oh well.

They are still a stunning live act, album missteps or not.

as for the lyrics... the album is still filled with some great one liners.

some of my faves so far:

"I was less than amazing
I do not know what all the troubles are for
Fall asleep in your branches
You're the only thing I ever want anymore"

"I'm a confident liar
I'll have my head in the oven so you'll know where I'll be
I'll try to be more romantic
I wanna believe in everything you believe"

"This pricey stuff makes me dizzy
I guess I've always been a delicate man
Takes me a day to remember a day
I didn't mean to let it get so far out of hand"

"Now we'll leave the silver city, 'cause all the silver girls
Gave us black dreams"

"You put an ocean and a river between everybody, between everything yourself and home"

"The only sentimental thing I could think of
Cousins and cousins somewhere overseas
But it'll take a better war to kill a college man like me"

"Sorrow's my body on the waves
Sorrow's the girl inside my cake"

and from the b-side:

"Wall Street jumps in the Hudson
With gold in their bathing suits
Then we send in the miracle fairies
That's all we do"

The last bit of the second verse of Lemonworld is my favourite.

I was a comfortable kid
But I don't think about that much anymore
Lay me on the table, put flowers in my mouth
and we can say that we invented a summer lovin' torture party

Kind of wish that had been the title of the album, as supposedly originally planned.

So obviously my earlier post saying that this would take awhile to figure out was hyperbole.

I think Solace is right on that The National are never going to change their style completely, and it is really all about the small tweaks. While I first was unsure if this album would be able to carve out its own identity, but the more I listen I feel that it is pretty obvious that this is The National at their most lush. All of the songs have these little flourishes that add some depth. Do I think this was a good addition? Well, it certainly isn't bad. But that seems to be what makes this album different. It's a very full record, for lack of a better term. There are some real nice production moments and I might be one of the few people that wish the record had more in common with "Terrible Love" than it does.

You know what, this album is awesome. No, it is not giant step forward in any department and that did lead to initial disappointment, but the actual content of what is here is great. Ah boy, probably falling back in love with these guys and so they will be all I listen to for the next month.

high quality stream from the NY Times is live now:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/magazine/25national-t.html

Anyone care to comment on how this sounds. I can't listen until I am off work.

it's 192kbps, pretty sure it's the same exact copy that my watermarked version is.

i think what trips people up is that the first song, 'Terrible Love', they basically used the demo version for most of the song (guitars sound muffled, etc. at the start), other than that it sounds really good.

Why do the drums sound so shitty on "Terrible Love"? Did they really think it would be a good idea to leave it sounding like that?

IT IS THE DEMO VERSION.

how many times does this need to be posted in this thread?

read any of the interviews with them the last month. they weren't happy with how the song turned out in the studio and felt like the demo captured what they were going for with that song best.

I don't give a shit what version they used. It still sounds terrible.

I admire their desire to go all lo-fi, but you can use a "demo" version of a song and still re-record the drums. Just like they clearly re-recorded the vocals.

i'm sure they had a reason for it.

i can see how it might bother some folks, just doesn't really bother me i guess... esp. as the album opener, it's a nice lead in

To keep calling it a demo version is misleading. It is the official version. It's what's on the album. Unless there's another studio version that's officially released and supposed to be the "real" version, this really can't be considered a demo version anymore regardless of its origin.

But I like it. Sounds fine to me. As a whole I think the album is below Alligator and Boxer, but still an interesting record that should grow with each listen.

hey, i'm just quoting what Aaron said... they used the version that was recorded as part of the demo process. call it what you want, i'm just explaining why it sounds like it does.

they recorded a proper studio version of it and weren't happy with the direction the sound take so they decided to use the original demo and build-upon that.

I guess it all kind of makes sense when it's explained by a band member like that. But I'm just dubious of the whole "we went with the demo version!" concept. Unless it's a super lo-fi band doing it. It ends up kind of being like, "Hey, we know this version sounds like it was recorded in a toilet. But we couldn't make it sound any better. So we'll just say this is what we were going for all along."

Also, the live version of "Terrible Love" sounds about 100 times better than the studio version. We can agree on that, right?

well it's not just the sound quality was different, they made it sound like the song took a huge departure structure-wise and they felt like their original "sketch" version if you will, was the best.

it's not unheard of for bands/artists to feel that way.

i guess i personally just don't think it sounds nearly as bad as you're making it out to be is all.

i think that, at this point, the national releasing the song "sorrow" is the equivalent of the hold steady releasing a track called "beer and drugs"

I'll say that "Terrible Love" in its current form is superior to the live versions I have heard. It's more interesting and more textured, not just one straight bombast.

the article on the NY Times site is really really great:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/magazine/25national-t.html

long read but worth it

is it just me or is this band not like a minimalist phillip glass terry riley style post-rock / post punk drumming band with sung poetry on top of it?