Full Version: Lennon vs. McCartney
wtf??? lol.
I like the simplicity (and that's a theme that goes throughout the record) of Hold On. When he says it's gonna be alright, I believe him.
that whole album is just the work of a guy who was just realizing how fucked up he was and how to deal with it. Via music, to our benefit.
so fucking wonderful. From the rockers to the scream to the tremolo'd guitar, let's give a shout out to Ringo.
On the Imagine subject, the soldier song is pretty groovy.
that whole album is just the work of a guy who was just realizing how fucked up he was and how to deal with it. Via music, to our benefit.
so fucking wonderful. From the rockers to the scream to the tremolo'd guitar, let's give a shout out to Ringo.
On the Imagine subject, the soldier song is pretty groovy.
McCartney actually cared about his relevancy, Lennon just made records for the hell of it. Lennon would rather have stayed home and played with his toes.
QUOTE
Ever heard of Brian Wilson?
Hardly in the same fucking league lyrically as Mitchell or even Lennon. He wrote teen lyrics for teen songs until he tried to be deep on shit like 'Till I Die' which is still pretty simplistic.
Well, okay, then.
Really enjoy Double Fantasy...he demonstrated that he could still nail those universal lyrics that punch you right in the heart..."'Woman" lyrically beautiful, a tribute to his significant other..."Starting Over"... deserved to be hit. My personal favorite from those sessions but not on Double Fanatsy is "Borrowed Time."
i just finished my run through the beatles anthology on my netflix last night.
john lennon is like a clairvoyant celestial being
mccartney is like some dude who grew up playing the piano and could put a damn great melody to almost anything,
can't help but get that vibe that this dude is clearly a bit jealous and frustrated by john's supernatural gift.
he also clearly loves attention.
george harrison is cool as shit.
put it this way, the beatles that stayed for an extra four months with maharishi are my beatles.
ps. why does video footage of ringo never come remotely close to looking like he's playing the actual drum track?
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 25 2010, 09:56 AM) 
put it this way, the beatles that stayed for an extra four months with maharishi are my beatles.
????
wat?!
Macca seems like he really craved Lennons approval, but I really dont think he was jealous of John's "supernatural gift"
QUOTE (spiritofeden @ Aug 25 2010, 12:34 PM)
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 25 2010, 09:56 AM)
put it this way, the beatles that stayed for an extra four months with maharishi are my beatles.
????
wat?!
Macca seems like he really craved Lennons approval, but I really dont think he was jealous of John's "supernatural gift"
paul isn't very "deep." john and george got it. they ended up a spiritual trajectory, which brought their music to a higher level. macca just stayed on the same level he was always on.
actually, Macca probably realized quicker then the others (but not quicker then Ringo!) that the Maharishi was full of shit. and to say that staying their brought Lennon and Harrisons music to another level is pretty daft.
Harrisons most horrid songs are contained on the White album, and Lennon and Macca are pretty evenly matched on the white album.
Harrisons most horrid songs are contained on the White album, and Lennon and Macca are pretty evenly matched on the white album.
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 25 2010, 09:58 AM)
paul isn't very "deep." john and george got it. they ended up a spiritual trajectory, which brought their music to a higher level. macca just stayed on the same level he was always on.
This is the argument I make to myself when I'm trying to remember why I think Paul's the best.
QUOTE (spiritofeden @ Aug 25 2010, 01:15 PM)
actually, Macca probably realized quicker then the others (but not quicker then Ringo!) that the Maharishi was full of shit. and to say that staying their brought Lennon and Harrisons music to another level is pretty daft.
This seems most accurate. Lennon eventually realized he was full of shit as well, so I'm not sure why he gets credit for staying there longer at the time, when Paul and Ringo came to the same conclusion John eventually did a lot quicker.
Don't know why we have to choose one or the other here either. They're musicians, not WWE wrestlers.
Yeah and John wrote Sexy Sadie afterwards, seems he wasn't that much into it at the end.
Best part of the whole Beatles/Maharishi thing is when John and George are leaving and the Maharishi asks why they're leaving and Lennon reportedly said "Well, you're the cosmic one. You should know."
yeah totally.
the songs they wrote while there, is in no way "the best part"
the songs they wrote while there, is in no way "the best part"
QUOTE (spiritofeden @ Aug 25 2010, 03:02 PM)
yeah totally.
the songs they wrote while there, is in no way "the best part"
the songs they wrote while there, is in no way "the best part"
Not the best part but it did open up a tender streak in Lennon's songwriting. 'Jealous Guy' / 'Child Of Nature' came from there, which is one of my favourite JL solo songs.
I don't know where you guys are coming from, but while at Rishikesh John was writing songs like "Julia," "I'm So Tired," and "Across The Universe" and Paul was writing shit like "Why Don't We Do It In The Road?"
Not that I don't love "Why Don't We Do It In The Road?" but John was clearly taking the depth of his songwriting to the next level, while Paul was just writing good melodies that were nothing but empty hollow shells. It doesn't matter that Maharishi was corrupt, it matters what John did with his time and how he opened himself up.
Across The Universe was written and recorded before they went to Rishikesh.
QUOTE (Sid Hartha @ Aug 30 2010, 10:46 AM)
Across The Universe was written and recorded before they went to Rishikesh.
not according to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Rishikesh
and this one too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Across_The_Universe
The flavour of the song was heavily influenced by Lennon's and the Beatles' interest in Transcendental Meditation in late 1967 – early 1968, when the song was composed. Based on this he added the mantra "Jai guru deva om" (Sanskrit: जय गुरुदेव ॐ) to the piece, which became the link to the chorus. The Sanskrit phrase is a sentence fragment whose words could have many meanings. Literally it approximates as "glory to the shining remover of darkness,"[2] and can be paraphrased as "Victory to God divine", "Hail to the divine guru", or the phrase commonly invoked by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi "All Glory to Guru Deva."
not saying you are wrong, but there are a lot wikipedia citations in direct opposition to what you are saying
i'm surprised this is close. lennon's solo career sucked stale indian asshole. he has 2 good albums, paul has like 8.
So John Lennon is to Joni Mitchell what Paul McCartney is to Brian Wilson.
I can actually see that.
not according to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Rishikesh
and this one too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Across_The_Universe
The flavour of the song was heavily influenced by Lennon's and the Beatles' interest in Transcendental Meditation in late 1967 – early 1968, when the song was composed. Based on this he added the mantra "Jai guru deva om" (Sanskrit: जय गुरुदेव ॐ) to the piece, which became the link to the chorus. The Sanskrit phrase is a sentence fragment whose words could have many meanings. Literally it approximates as "glory to the shining remover of darkness,"[2] and can be paraphrased as "Victory to God divine", "Hail to the divine guru", or the phrase commonly invoked by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi "All Glory to Guru Deva."
not saying you are wrong, but there are a lot wikipedia citations in direct opposition to what you are saying
Neither of those articles says Across The Universe was written in Rishikesh.
from http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-1968.html
I can actually see that.
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 30 2010, 09:54 AM)
QUOTE (Sid Hartha @ Aug 30 2010, 10:46 AM)
Across The Universe was written and recorded before they went to Rishikesh.
not according to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Rishikesh
and this one too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Across_The_Universe
The flavour of the song was heavily influenced by Lennon's and the Beatles' interest in Transcendental Meditation in late 1967 – early 1968, when the song was composed. Based on this he added the mantra "Jai guru deva om" (Sanskrit: जय गुरुदेव ॐ) to the piece, which became the link to the chorus. The Sanskrit phrase is a sentence fragment whose words could have many meanings. Literally it approximates as "glory to the shining remover of darkness,"[2] and can be paraphrased as "Victory to God divine", "Hail to the divine guru", or the phrase commonly invoked by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi "All Glory to Guru Deva."
not saying you are wrong, but there are a lot wikipedia citations in direct opposition to what you are saying
Neither of those articles says Across The Universe was written in Rishikesh.
from http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-1968.html
QUOTE
ACROSS THE UNIVERSE [outtake]
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4 Feb 1968
master tape- 4 track
* [a] stereo 1995.
CD: Apple CDP 8 34448 2 Anthology 2 1996.
This is take 2, called "gorgeous" by Lewisohn in his Recording Sessions, given overdubs on the same day, but then set aside as work continued, leading to the standard version. It's dated to 3 Feb in the Anthology booklet but that appears to be an error since Recording Sessions dates it using the original recording sheets.
----
ACROSS THE UNIVERSE
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4,8 Feb 1968, 1 Apr 1970
master tape- 4 track 2d generation
* [a] stereo 2 Oct 1969.
UK: Regal Starline SRS 5013 No One's Gonna Change Our World 1970,
Parlophone PSLP 261 and PCM 1001 Rarities 1978-79, Parlophone PCS 7214 Ballads 1980.
US: Capitol SHAL-12060 Rarities 1980.
CD: EMI CDP 7 90044 2 Past Masters 2 1988.
* [b] stereo 2 Apr 1970.
UK: Apple PXS1 and PCS 7096 Let It Be 1970, Apple PCSP 718 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
US: Apple AR 34001 Let It Be 1970, Apple SKBO-3404 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
CD: EMI CDP 7 46447 2 Let It Be 1987, EMI CDP 7 97039 2 The Beatles 1967-1970 1993.
Neither of these is at the recorded speed; the old mix [a] is faster and the new mix [b] is slower than the original tape. The finished mono mix made in Feb 1968 has never been issued. [a] has animal sounds overdubbed during mixing for SRS 5013, a benefit album for the World Wildlife Fund. [b] has most of the original instrumentation mixed out and replaced by new orchestra and choral vocals recorded in 1970.
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4 Feb 1968
master tape- 4 track
* [a] stereo 1995.
CD: Apple CDP 8 34448 2 Anthology 2 1996.
This is take 2, called "gorgeous" by Lewisohn in his Recording Sessions, given overdubs on the same day, but then set aside as work continued, leading to the standard version. It's dated to 3 Feb in the Anthology booklet but that appears to be an error since Recording Sessions dates it using the original recording sheets.
----
ACROSS THE UNIVERSE
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4,8 Feb 1968, 1 Apr 1970
master tape- 4 track 2d generation
* [a] stereo 2 Oct 1969.
UK: Regal Starline SRS 5013 No One's Gonna Change Our World 1970,
Parlophone PSLP 261 and PCM 1001 Rarities 1978-79, Parlophone PCS 7214 Ballads 1980.
US: Capitol SHAL-12060 Rarities 1980.
CD: EMI CDP 7 90044 2 Past Masters 2 1988.
* [b] stereo 2 Apr 1970.
UK: Apple PXS1 and PCS 7096 Let It Be 1970, Apple PCSP 718 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
US: Apple AR 34001 Let It Be 1970, Apple SKBO-3404 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
CD: EMI CDP 7 46447 2 Let It Be 1987, EMI CDP 7 97039 2 The Beatles 1967-1970 1993.
Neither of these is at the recorded speed; the old mix [a] is faster and the new mix [b] is slower than the original tape. The finished mono mix made in Feb 1968 has never been issued. [a] has animal sounds overdubbed during mixing for SRS 5013, a benefit album for the World Wildlife Fund. [b] has most of the original instrumentation mixed out and replaced by new orchestra and choral vocals recorded in 1970.
QUOTE (Shackleton's Great Adventure @ Aug 30 2010, 09:57 AM)
i'm surprised this is close. lennon's solo career sucked stale indian asshole. he has 2 good albums, paul has like 8.
The brightest thing McCartney has sung since the Beatles broke up is," Duh Duh Duh-it's just another day." McCartney has been dishing out the most empty-headed, superficial, shallow,ditzoid, low-IQ, sugar-coated crap since the Archies. At least Lennon had the balls and brains to write and record tunes such as "Jealous Guy", Working Class Hero" and "Instant Karma", among others. If the public wants insignificant, uninspired, lame-brained, juvenile donkey dung like:" someone's knocking at the door-let them in",they can always count on precious little Macca- can't they?
QUOTE (Sid Hartha @ Aug 30 2010, 11:08 AM)
So John Lennon is to Joni Mitchell what Paul McCartney is to Brian Wilson.
I can actually see that.
not according to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Rishikesh
and this one too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Across_The_Universe
The flavour of the song was heavily influenced by Lennon's and the Beatles' interest in Transcendental Meditation in late 1967 – early 1968, when the song was composed. Based on this he added the mantra "Jai guru deva om" (Sanskrit: जय गुरुदेव ॐ) to the piece, which became the link to the chorus. The Sanskrit phrase is a sentence fragment whose words could have many meanings. Literally it approximates as "glory to the shining remover of darkness,"[2] and can be paraphrased as "Victory to God divine", "Hail to the divine guru", or the phrase commonly invoked by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi "All Glory to Guru Deva."
not saying you are wrong, but there are a lot wikipedia citations in direct opposition to what you are saying
Neither of those articles says Across The Universe was written in Rishikesh.
from http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-1968.html
I can actually see that.
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 30 2010, 09:54 AM)
QUOTE (Sid Hartha @ Aug 30 2010, 10:46 AM)
Across The Universe was written and recorded before they went to Rishikesh.
not according to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Rishikesh
and this one too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Across_The_Universe
The flavour of the song was heavily influenced by Lennon's and the Beatles' interest in Transcendental Meditation in late 1967 – early 1968, when the song was composed. Based on this he added the mantra "Jai guru deva om" (Sanskrit: जय गुरुदेव ॐ) to the piece, which became the link to the chorus. The Sanskrit phrase is a sentence fragment whose words could have many meanings. Literally it approximates as "glory to the shining remover of darkness,"[2] and can be paraphrased as "Victory to God divine", "Hail to the divine guru", or the phrase commonly invoked by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi "All Glory to Guru Deva."
not saying you are wrong, but there are a lot wikipedia citations in direct opposition to what you are saying
Neither of those articles says Across The Universe was written in Rishikesh.
from http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-1968.html
QUOTE
ACROSS THE UNIVERSE [outtake]
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4 Feb 1968
master tape- 4 track
* [a] stereo 1995.
CD: Apple CDP 8 34448 2 Anthology 2 1996.
This is take 2, called "gorgeous" by Lewisohn in his Recording Sessions, given overdubs on the same day, but then set aside as work continued, leading to the standard version. It's dated to 3 Feb in the Anthology booklet but that appears to be an error since Recording Sessions dates it using the original recording sheets.
----
ACROSS THE UNIVERSE
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4,8 Feb 1968, 1 Apr 1970
master tape- 4 track 2d generation
* [a] stereo 2 Oct 1969.
UK: Regal Starline SRS 5013 No One's Gonna Change Our World 1970,
Parlophone PSLP 261 and PCM 1001 Rarities 1978-79, Parlophone PCS 7214 Ballads 1980.
US: Capitol SHAL-12060 Rarities 1980.
CD: EMI CDP 7 90044 2 Past Masters 2 1988.
* stereo 2 Apr 1970.
UK: Apple PXS1 and PCS 7096 Let It Be 1970, Apple PCSP 718 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
US: Apple AR 34001 Let It Be 1970, Apple SKBO-3404 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
CD: EMI CDP 7 46447 2 Let It Be 1987, EMI CDP 7 97039 2 The Beatles 1967-1970 1993.
Neither of these is at the recorded speed; the old mix [a] is faster and the new mix [b] is slower than the original tape. The finished mono mix made in Feb 1968 has never been issued. [a] has animal sounds overdubbed during mixing for SRS 5013, a benefit album for the World Wildlife Fund. [b] has most of the original instrumentation mixed out and replaced by new orchestra and choral vocals recorded in 1970.
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4 Feb 1968
master tape- 4 track
* [a] stereo 1995.
CD: Apple CDP 8 34448 2 Anthology 2 1996.
This is take 2, called "gorgeous" by Lewisohn in his Recording Sessions, given overdubs on the same day, but then set aside as work continued, leading to the standard version. It's dated to 3 Feb in the Anthology booklet but that appears to be an error since Recording Sessions dates it using the original recording sheets.
----
ACROSS THE UNIVERSE
basic recording- 4 Feb 1968
additional recording- 4,8 Feb 1968, 1 Apr 1970
master tape- 4 track 2d generation
* [a] stereo 2 Oct 1969.
UK: Regal Starline SRS 5013 No One's Gonna Change Our World 1970,
Parlophone PSLP 261 and PCM 1001 Rarities 1978-79, Parlophone PCS 7214 Ballads 1980.
US: Capitol SHAL-12060 Rarities 1980.
CD: EMI CDP 7 90044 2 Past Masters 2 1988.
* stereo 2 Apr 1970.
UK: Apple PXS1 and PCS 7096 Let It Be 1970, Apple PCSP 718 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
US: Apple AR 34001 Let It Be 1970, Apple SKBO-3404 The Beatles 1967-1970 1973.
CD: EMI CDP 7 46447 2 Let It Be 1987, EMI CDP 7 97039 2 The Beatles 1967-1970 1993.
Neither of these is at the recorded speed; the old mix [a] is faster and the new mix [b] is slower than the original tape. The finished mono mix made in Feb 1968 has never been issued. [a] has animal sounds overdubbed during mixing for SRS 5013, a benefit album for the World Wildlife Fund. [b] has most of the original instrumentation mixed out and replaced by new orchestra and choral vocals recorded in 1970.
[b]The songs known to be composed – either partially or completely – by the Beatles in India are:
* Across The Universe [47][53]
* "Back in the U.S.S.R."[52]
* "Blackbird"[9]
* "Child of Nature" (reworked as "Jealous Guy" for John Lennon's Imagine)[9][52]
* "Cry Baby Cry"[9]
* "Dear Prudence" (named for Prudence Farrow, who would not "come out and play")[9][54]
* "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey"[9]
* "I Will"[52]
* "I'm So Tired"[9]
* "Julia"[52]
* "Junk"[9]
* "Mean Mr. Mustard"[9]
* "Mother Nature's Son" (inspired by a lecture given by the Maharishi)[9][55][56]
* "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"[52]
* "Polythene Pam"[9]
* "Revolution"[9]
* "The Rishikesh Song" (also called "The Happy Rishikesh Song")[57]
* "Rocky Raccoon"[9] (co-written with Donovan and inspired by Bob Dylan's new album John Wesley Harding, which they heard for the first time at Rishikesh)[7][52]
* "Sexy Sadie" (originally named "Maharishi" but changed to avoid libel)[58]
* "Something"[3]
* "The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill" (inspired by the son of an American student who went tiger hunting)[9]
* "What's the New Mary Jane"[9]
* "Why Don't We Do It in the Road?" (inspired by monkeys mating in the road)[20]
* "Wild Honey Pie"[9]
* "Yer Blues"[9]
QUOTE (Mikey @ Aug 30 2010, 11:29 AM)
QUOTE (Shackleton's Great Adventure @ Aug 30 2010, 09:57 AM)
i'm surprised this is close. lennon's solo career sucked stale indian asshole. he has 2 good albums, paul has like 8.
The brightest thing McCartney has sung since the Beatles broke up is," Duh Duh Duh-it's just another day." McCartney has been dishing out the most empty-headed, superficial, shallow,ditzoid, low-IQ, sugar-coated crap since the Archies. At least Lennon had the balls and brains to write and record tunes such as "Jealous Guy", Working Class Hero" and "Instant Karma", among others. If the public wants insignificant, uninspired, lame-brained, juvenile donkey dung like:" someone's knocking at the door-let them in",they can always count on precious little Macca- can't they?
thank you
QUOTE (Fletch Lives @ Aug 25 2010, 12:24 PM)
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 25 2010, 09:58 AM)
paul isn't very "deep." john and george got it. they ended up a spiritual trajectory, which brought their music to a higher level. macca just stayed on the same level he was always on.
This is the argument I make to myself when I'm trying to remember why I think Paul's the best.
Exactly. Particularly in his solo career, John's pretenses to "depth" make him, for me, nearly unlistenable. Maybe I wouldn't be bothered by the incredible conceit of it all if his lyrics weren't so insipid - so bad. I just feel embarassed listening to so much of it. It so perfectly represents the worst impulses of the generation, and it's made all the more unbearable by the fact that people still take it seriously, admire the words and look to it as some source of wisdom or admirable "spiritual trajectory". Harrison's pseudo-spiritual banalities are even more contemptible. They were beyond self-parody in the 70s and 80s.
A literate person shouldn't feel compelled to look into liner notes in search of "depth".
Out of the Beatles' Rishikesh experience came songs such as "Across the Universe," which includes the words "Jai guru deva om," a phrase said to translate roughly to "I give thanks to Guru Dev," the Maharishi's teacher.
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-maharish...44.story?page=2
QUOTE (plaid is rad @ Aug 30 2010, 11:30 AM)
QUOTE (Mikey @ Aug 30 2010, 11:29 AM)
QUOTE (Shackleton's Great Adventure @ Aug 30 2010, 09:57 AM)
i'm surprised this is close. lennon's solo career sucked stale indian asshole. he has 2 good albums, paul has like 8.
The brightest thing McCartney has sung since the Beatles broke up is," Duh Duh Duh-it's just another day." McCartney has been dishing out the most empty-headed, superficial, shallow,ditzoid, low-IQ, sugar-coated crap since the Archies. At least Lennon had the balls and brains to write and record tunes such as "Jealous Guy", Working Class Hero" and "Instant Karma", among others. If the public wants insignificant, uninspired, lame-brained, juvenile donkey dung like:" someone's knocking at the door-let them in",they can always count on precious little Macca- can't they?
thank you
who gives a shit about lyrics its fucking music. fuck lyrics. they can suck my cock. paul writes good songs and has a great deal more good songs to his name than lennon. maybe cause lennon died but still his only albums worth a damn are ono band and imagine. by the time lennon died paul had mccartney, ram, band on the run, london town, venus and mars... and john made that dumb ass rock n roll album and walls and fucking bridges.
It quite clearly says in Lewisohn, McDonald et al that 'All Across The Universe' was first comitted to tape before the went to India. They'd also met Yogi as early as August 1967.
Citation's 47 and 53 on that wikipedia article aren't correct, it doesn't say that the song was written out there. They are clearly just from the same AP piece released on his death.
Citation's 47 and 53 on that wikipedia article aren't correct, it doesn't say that the song was written out there. They are clearly just from the same AP piece released on his death.
either way, lennon at that period > mccartney at that period
Going through that list, the balance between "deep" and "silly" tunes seems a bit more even between John and Paul.
Paul was maybe a little more consistent, but none of his solo albums come close to 'Plastic Ono Band' on 'Imagine', and none of his live recordings are anywhere near as fresh and compelling as 'Live Peace Toronto'.
My favourite McCartney album is still his first, as it seems understated and like he isn't trying too hard.
My favourite McCartney album is still his first, as it seems understated and like he isn't trying too hard.
"silly" for john means being playful, "silly" for paul means being dull
'Silly' for John means absurd humour and satire. For Paul it means embarrassing music that makes you want to cringe.
fuck guys, this song is pretty embarrassing eh??
why wasn't McCartney singing about world peace and all that shit? what a garbage song writer that guy is.
why wasn't McCartney singing about world peace and all that shit? what a garbage song writer that guy is.
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