Moo & Oink
Apr 7 2009, 03:57 PM
Once again, the Chicago White Sox are completely overlooked by the SOMB. The White Sox should be in the thick of the AL Central pennant race for the entire season. One of the things that should be interesting is how long Steve Stone will be able to tolerate Hawk in the announing booth. By the way, Ozzie says the North Side can go fuck themselves
sin city
Apr 7 2009, 04:03 PM
nice start. good to see Kyle is still his same old spontaneously combustible self. Tomorrow should feel downright balmy after todays game...
MattW
Apr 7 2009, 04:04 PM
I don't think they're overlooked, I just think we get better participation in the MLB threads from Sox fans than Cub fans. Cub fans have their own thread, but a lot of them don't really care to discuss rivals and/or the rest of the league.
tjenz
Apr 7 2009, 04:06 PM
QUOTE (MattW @ Apr 7 2009, 04:04 PM)

I don't think they're overlooked, I just think we get better participation in the MLB threads from Sox fans than Cub fans. Cub fans have their own thread, but a lot of them don't really care to discuss rivals and/or the rest of the league.
most polite way to say, Cub fans have their heads up their ass.
MattW
Apr 7 2009, 04:15 PM
Ha, maybe. But seriously, look at their 2009 thread and quote me a post that has a full coherent thought about a division rival. Being a Cubs fan has different dimensions of culture; the team potentially is playing in your neighborhood, getting tickets are a big deal, etc.
Killface
Apr 7 2009, 04:18 PM
Man, I know it's one game, but not the best of starts for Wise, he was bruuuuuuuuuuuuuutal. Buehrle didn't look much better, the bullpen looked great, tho. Richard, Dotel then Jenks held down the Royals that looked like they were going to break it out early.
Thome homer on opening day...what a shock.

On to tomorrow night, Gavin Floyd on the mound against Greineke.
Moo & Oink
Apr 7 2009, 04:21 PM
QUOTE (Killface @ Apr 7 2009, 04:18 PM)

Man, I know it's one game, but not the best of starts for Wise, he was bruuuuuuuuuuuuuutal. Buehrle didn't look much better, the bullpen looked great, tho. Richard, Dotel then Jenks held down the Royals that looked like they were going to break it out early.
Thome homer on opening day...what a shock.

On to tomorrow night, Gavin Floyd on the mound against Greineke.
I'd rather have Brian Anderson out in CF; Wise won't be leading off for long.
MattW
Apr 7 2009, 04:25 PM
Hillman going with Farnsworth in the 8th is really starting to bug me. In the same situation down the road against the Twins or Indians, he's not going to make that mistake again. He's going to pitch Juan Cruz like any manager with a pulse should. Credit to Thome for making him pay, but if it comes down to a 1 game playoff again, I'll be looking in this game's direction.
Uncle Remus
Apr 7 2009, 07:02 PM
QUOTE (TJENZ @ Apr 7 2009, 04:06 PM)

most polite way to say, Cub fans have their heads up their ass.
have I told you lately how much I love you? I do.
Mike Schank
Apr 7 2009, 08:14 PM
4 of the 9 posts in this thread are about the Cubs. Shocking.
Killface
Apr 7 2009, 11:33 PM
QUOTE (Mike Schank @ Apr 7 2009, 08:14 PM)

4 of the 9 posts in this thread are about the Cubs. Shocking.
Glad mine wasn't one of them. The Cubs mean as much to me as the Rockies or Phillies, which is next to nothing unless the White Sox are playing them. The hatred that most Sox fans have towards the Cubs, I direct towards teams truly worth hating like the Twins, the Indians and the Tigers. A win over THOSE teams is sweeter than any win against the Cubs. Like most Cubs fans can't stand the Cardinals and pretty much ignore the White Sox, that's how I roll. Hate the Twins, Sox fans!!!!
Dread
Apr 8 2009, 12:33 AM
I do. Being a fan in California and never having stepped foot in the state of Illinois, I've always been concerned about the other AL teams only... or the Sox themselves in years past. I actually like the Cubs.
Why am I a fan if I'm in California???
Duh.
tjenz
Apr 8 2009, 07:39 AM
If Thome can keep up this pace of one homer in every game, it could be a very exciting year on the south side
mouthbreather
Apr 8 2009, 09:10 AM
It would be nice to see Konerko have a good season. He's due.
Keeping fingers crossed that he doesn't fall into his typical slump.
sin city
Apr 8 2009, 09:25 AM
QUOTE (Killface @ Apr 7 2009, 10:18 PM)

Man, I know it's one game, but not the best of starts for Wise, he was bruuuuuuuuuuuuuutal. Buehrle didn't look much better, the bullpen looked great, tho. Richard, Dotel then Jenks held down the Royals that looked like they were going to break it out early.
Thome homer on opening day...what a shock.
On to tomorrow night, Gavin Floyd on the mound against Greineke.
I think we're going to see Getz in the leadoff spot before too long...
Killface
Apr 8 2009, 11:42 AM
You're probably right...Fields will move up to 8th and Poochie* will bat 9th. I like AJ batting 2nd, not many people do, I don't have a real problem with it.
*For those of you not familiar with Brian Anderson's nickname that we came up with at work, it is a reference to The Simpsons episode when they added a hip, new character to Itchy and Scratchy named Poochie vocied by Homer and everyone stopped watching. When BA comes up to bat, if there is a rally going, 95% of the time, he will kill it. Hence, the nickname of Poochie.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 8 2009, 12:00 PM
Wise's performance v. Getz's and Fields' on opening day looked like it had been scripted by South Side Sox. Exactly what the blog contingent has been predicting.
I sort of like the idea of Fields leading off against lefties. Maybe he can sell it to Ozzie now that he's apparently a bunting master.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 8 2009, 12:03 PM
Only problem I have with Pierzynski hitting second is that he's one of the worst (possibly even the very worst) baserunners in the game. Not that he's slow (although he is that too), but that he makes bad decisions on the basepaths. As he demonstrated yesterday. It's not make-or-break but it does detract from his value at the top of the lineup.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 8 2009, 12:07 PM
The underappreciated guy from yesterday has to be Clayton Richard. Two vital 1-2-3 innings after his wretched spring means a lot.
Uncle Remus
Apr 8 2009, 01:48 PM
Sin City, Tjenz and I need to get together. I miss you fuckers.
tjenz
Apr 8 2009, 03:54 PM
QUOTE (Bhickman @ Apr 8 2009, 01:48 PM)

Sin City, Tjenz and I need to get together. I miss you fuckers.
circle jerk! ? !
Uncle Remus
Apr 8 2009, 04:10 PM
why not?
MattW
Apr 9 2009, 10:18 AM
I was flipping to the Sox game between innings of the Twins game last night. The one moment I caught was when Grienke drilled Quentin on an 0-1 pitch in his second at-bat after he went upstairs in his first at-bat.
Hawk was obviously fuming and saying stuff like, "I like Zack, but he's been doing that stuff since high school. That was definitely intentional." Now, I don't know exactly what was going on in Grienke's head, but the most likely scenario was that he was brushing the crowdingest hitter in the league off the plate so he could set up the outside corner. And to me, it appeared that the pitch got away from him. I think this was obvious to Steve Stone too. But instead of being a voice of reason to Hawk's hot-headedness, he made some comment to the effect that Grienke has less license to do so because he doesn't have pinpoint control. In addition, he shouldn't be throwing a brush-back pitch near his head.
I was extremely disappointed in Stone. First of all, a brush-back pitch needs to be on the fists. That pitch missed its spot. Inside pitches at the belt or the knees are usually extra base hits, particularly to a power hitter like Quentin. This is 100 level baseball that Stone understands. Second of all if Grienke's control is so unpredictable, Quentin crowds the plate at his own risk. It's not the pitcher's responsibility to avoid pitching inside if someone is going to crowd the plate. What is it about Reinsdorf culture that breaks down even their best announcers into becoming cheerleaders? It's just one game, but if there's a culture war between Hawk's wisdom and Stone's reasoning and analysis I'm not liking Stone's chances.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 9 2009, 01:23 PM
Getz leading off, Wise hitting eighth. We'll see if it sticks, but it's a pretty encouraging change after just two games.
Killface
Apr 9 2009, 01:42 PM
I think it's safe to say the Wise-at-leadoff experiment is over and rightly so.
You hate to condemn a guy after two games, but he has looked like a deer in headlights at every at-bat so far.
Kate
Apr 9 2009, 01:46 PM
QUOTE (Rajexico @ Apr 8 2009, 12:07 PM)

The underappreciated guy from yesterday has to be Clayton Richard. Two vital 1-2-3 innings after his wretched spring means a lot.
I saw Richard pitch in spring training, when they won against the A's. He looked good. He's still pretty young, so give him a little time to get comfortable.
Side note, Clayton Richard's girlfriend is waaaaaay hot. Like supermodel hot. (He's not bad either.)
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 9 2009, 01:58 PM
I will give him time especially as a long relief guy as opposed to fifth starter - just saying he had a 7.16 ERA in the spring so the game you saw was the exception.
ParticleHustler
Apr 9 2009, 03:28 PM
Poor Dwayne Wise...hitless again hitting 8th, and pinch hit for in the 8th inning.
Killface
Apr 9 2009, 03:42 PM
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Apr 9 2009, 03:28 PM)

Poor Dwayne Wise...hitless again hitting 8th, and pinch hit for in the 8th inning.
This just popped in my head...
If Wise is not leading off, what's the point in playing him? Just play Poochie everyday, he IS better in the field than Wise and can hit 8th just as good as Wise...
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd Coco goes yard. When they brought Jenks in, I had a feeling bad things were gonna happen. Closers should only be brought in saves situations....grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
ParticleHustler
Apr 9 2009, 03:46 PM
Whaaat? This is the exact kind of situation your best reliever (regardless of labels) should pitch in. In fact, once this game was scoreless going to the 9th, it became impossible for there to be a save situation for the White Sox. So should Ozzie not pitch Jenks at all?
Dude, I think you missed your calling as an MLB manager...
Killface
Apr 9 2009, 04:06 PM
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Apr 9 2009, 03:46 PM)

Whaaat? This is the exact kind of situation your best reliever (regardless of labels) should pitch in. In fact, once this game was scoreless going to the 9th, it became impossible for there to be a save situation for the White Sox. So should Ozzie not pitch Jenks at all?
Dude, I think you missed your calling as an MLB manager...
The closer should close. Unfortunately, they HAD to use him today, since they threw Linebrink last night and Thornton and Dotel today, but I would much prefer Jenks to pitch only when absolutely necessary. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do and they had to pitch Jenks, but overall, closers close, period.
ParticleHustler
Apr 9 2009, 04:10 PM
Necessary = using your best reliever to pitch 1 inning with a 3-run lead vs. pitching him in a tie game?
You are aware that a "closer" is not an actual position on a baseball team, like a first baseman or a catcher, right? A "closer" is something that has been entirely made up through the distorted use of a team's best relievers in high leverage situations. Unfortunately, most managers only consider the 9th inning with a lead to be high leverage, yet completely ignore other high leverage situations - such as, tie game in the top of the 9th. Ozzie made the right move here, it just didn't work out. And not because his closer wasn't closing.
MattW
Apr 9 2009, 04:11 PM
QUOTE (Killface @ Apr 9 2009, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Apr 9 2009, 03:46 PM)

Whaaat? This is the exact kind of situation your best reliever (regardless of labels) should pitch in. In fact, once this game was scoreless going to the 9th, it became impossible for there to be a save situation for the White Sox. So should Ozzie not pitch Jenks at all?
Dude, I think you missed your calling as an MLB manager...
The closer should close. Unfortunately, they HAD to use him today, since they threw Linebrink last night and Thornton and Dotel today, but I would much prefer Jenks to pitch only when absolutely necessary. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do and they had to pitch Jenks, but overall, closers close, period.
Not really. Your position makes marginally more sense if you were talking about the away team, because there would be an opportunity for a save. But even then with the game on the line, you want your best available pitcher that can get outs without allowing baserunners.
Killface
Apr 9 2009, 04:27 PM
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Apr 9 2009, 04:10 PM)

Necessary = using your best reliever to pitch 1 inning with a 3-run lead vs. pitching him in a tie game?
You are aware that a "closer" is not an actual position on a baseball team, like a first baseman or a catcher, right? A "closer" is something that has been entirely made up through the distorted use of a team's best relievers in high leverage situations. Unfortunately, most managers only consider the 9th inning with a lead to be high leverage, yet completely ignore other high leverage situations - such as, tie game in the top of the 9th. Ozzie made the right move here, it just didn't work out. And not because his closer wasn't closing.
Today's game and the use of Jenks can fall back to MacDougal sucking. If MacDougal does his job, they don't have to throw Thornton in the 7th and Dotel in the 8th.
We'll agree to disagree on this one, but for TODAY'S game, Ozzie did the right thing, he really had no choice but to use him, I agree with that for today's game, but if you have a choice, you save the closer to close.
MattW
Apr 9 2009, 04:42 PM
I'm going to agree to disagree with you too.
Killface
Apr 9 2009, 04:55 PM
Schweet!
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 9 2009, 06:38 PM
Yeah, have to agree with MW and PH. The best reliever should be used in a high-leverage situation, whether that's a tie game or a two-run lead. "Closers, close period" loses baseball games.
If the Sox have a really terrible first half and Poreda really looks like a bullpen arm... I have to wonder if they'll go ahead and trade Jenks. This season at the all-star break might be their best window to do so. I would hate to see him go but it might be the best thing for the team.
QUOTE (Killface @ Apr 9 2009, 03:42 PM)

If Wise is not leading off, what's the point in playing him? Just play Poochie everyday, he IS better in the field than Wise and can hit 8th just as good as Wise...
Wise hit righties a bit better last year. And Anderson's post-2006 defense hasn't been that great. Batting eighth or ninth, platooned together, with Anderson starting against lefties, they're not that much worse than a replacement player.
MattW
Apr 10 2009, 08:56 AM
The question I have is when are they going to break down and sign Jim Edmonds to a 1 year/1 million deal or minor league deal depending on Edmonds's self-opinion?
ParticleHustler
Apr 10 2009, 09:02 AM
Kenny Lofton's still out there, too. I think he could be serviceable as a CF/lead-off option for a year.
MattW
Apr 10 2009, 09:33 AM
R.A. Dickey vs. Jose Contreras
Wow, tonight's game is such a question mark on both sides. It could be just as easily a 20 run hit-fest as it could be a pitcher's duel. Forecasted gametime temp 41 degrees. Tim Wakefield's numbers are usually pretty good in cold weather, but I still couldn't tell you how Dickey's going to do. He had a very good spring training though.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 10 2009, 01:45 PM
Ozzie's talking about possibly leading off with Fields against Liriano on Saturday. I really like the idea... it's unconventional, but considering Fields' rakes against lefties, having him lead off against left-handed pitchers would be a way to maximize his value.
Kate
Apr 10 2009, 05:05 PM
I think I'm heading to the Sox game tomorrow. Looks like a sunny day, so why not? It is strange that I will see a Sox game before I see my beloved Cubs opening at home on Monday, but hey, my love of baseball transcends my love of the Cubs.
Any SOMBies going to the cell tomorrow?
Oh, and Josh Fields sucks. A lot.
MattW
Apr 11 2009, 01:05 AM
I don't think I would be that opposed to Dickey spot starting once in each series at the Cell. 4 or 5 players hit that knuckleball with everything they had and the only one that went out was the bad idea fastball he threw to Konerko. As long as he is relatively around the strike zone and lays off the walks, he's reasonably effective against power-oriented teams.
Not going to this series unfortunately, but definitely in May.
MattW
Apr 11 2009, 12:16 PM
So let's just all agree no matter who is on what side. Between Gene Honda giving Joe Crede his dramatic introduction as if he were still a White Sock, Anderson's prank plate music, and Crede golfing that 2nd pitch into the bullpen, that was a pretty awesome 90 second sequence.
Dead Billy
Apr 12 2009, 04:05 PM
Back to .500
tjenz
Apr 13 2009, 08:06 AM
Always nice to see the Sox take 2 of 3 from the Twins.
Decent pitching the last two games. Hope they can keep this up today in the motor city
ParticleHustler
Apr 13 2009, 02:27 PM
Both of these teams suck.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 13 2009, 02:34 PM
I have a feeling that Q's wrist is OK. Just a feeling.
QUOTE (Kate @ Apr 10 2009, 05:05 PM)

Oh, and Josh Fields sucks. A lot.
He was .353/.500/.412 going into today and has a walk, a hit, and two runs in the game thus far. He's playing good defense, drawing walks and seeing pitches, and even laid down a picture-perfect bunt.
In what sense does he "suck"? Are you scoffing (arguably with good reason) at this small sample size? Do you think his swing is still too fundamentally unsound to hit righty fastballs? Do you think his increased walk rate is unsustainable and that his ~30% K rate will destroy his average? Do you think his defense will regress to his 2007/minor league norms in a larger sample size, based on your visual observations of his play?
Really interested in your analysis on this subject, Kate.
Raj (Noble Con)
Apr 13 2009, 02:39 PM
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Apr 13 2009, 02:27 PM)

Both of these teams suck.
The entire division sucks. One of the Sox blogs has been referring to it as a tallest midget contest and I think that's a pretty good description.
Right now, the White Sox suck a bit less than the others. Not convinced that will hold up over the season with the severe lack of depth issues, but I'm really happy to see this offense roar over the past few days.
The West and the East are going to wail on the Central teams this year. The Central team that wants the honor of (probably) losing to/(or just maybe) upsetting the AL East winner in the ALDS just needs to beat up the other four Central teams.
tjenz
Apr 13 2009, 09:55 PM

Konerko & Dye both hit their 300th homers today. Back to back.
Pretty remarkable feat.
Go Sox!
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