Full Version: 2010 MLB Offseason
Man, really disappointed with the way XM's Home Plate has re-arranged their shows. Buck Martinez and Scott Graham used to do mornings, and while they weren't the greatest or anything, they were a good pair to handle a morning show devoted to discussing the games from the night before and current issues. Buck obviously left to do Ble Jays PBP for 2010, so what did they do? They changed the announcer and moved Rob Dibble to the morning. I couldn't stand Dibble on the afternoon show. The guy is about as cliche and non-substantive talking about baseball as you would imagine. At 7am, the last thing I want to hear is his overbearing personality yapping about some inane opinion that just happens to be 180 degrees from reality. I'd much rather listen to Jim Duquette and Seth Everett, who are quite good in the afternoons (when I get the chance to hear them). They canned Charlie Steiner's show last January, and now they make this change. BAH!
Twitter is all but concluding that Orlando Hudson is going to end up in Minnesota. What an off-season if this goes down. JJ Hardy, Pavano retained for a reasonable price, a Mauer extension looking like it's going to happen, Jim Thome and the O-Dog (instead of dropping that $5 million on Jarrod Washburn). If Hudson and Mauer happen, in my mind this off-season could not have realistically gone any better.
Twins potential lineup against RHP.
Span - CF
Hudson - 2B
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Kubel - LF
Cuddyer - RF
Thome - DH
Hardy - SS
Punto - 3B
vs. LHP
Span - CF
Hudson - 2B
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Cuddyer - RF
Kubel - DH
Young - LF
Hardy - SS
Harris - 3B
Wow...
Span - CF
Hudson - 2B
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Kubel - LF
Cuddyer - RF
Thome - DH
Hardy - SS
Punto - 3B
vs. LHP
Span - CF
Hudson - 2B
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Cuddyer - RF
Kubel - DH
Young - LF
Hardy - SS
Harris - 3B
Wow...
The only bad thing I can say about that is that the Twins will be in the bottom tier defensively again. Otherwise, yeah, great offseason and they're certainly the favorites.
Really concerned the Tigers are going to give Damon something close to what they gave Valverde (2 years, more than $5M per year). Particularly since Boras also represents Porcello, and I can see him using that as leverage to get Damon a contract to save face.
Yeah. This isn't sitting well. I'd be fine with one year, $7MM. They really don't need any more baggage right now.
QUOTE (Raj (Hey Genius) @ Feb 5 2010, 09:29 AM) 
The only bad thing I can say about that is that the Twins will be in the bottom tier defensively again. Otherwise, yeah, great offseason and they're certainly the favorites.
Aside from the fact that Hardy makes them better in the infield, there's really no getting around this. I am going to miss Carlos Gomez considering this is pitching staff that features Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, and Nick Blackburn. These guys can be great with the help of good defense and can look lost a bad night when hits are dropping in. And the AAAA players up for the 5th OF job aren't impressive enough on defense to serve as valuable replacements either. I think the Twins are going to need to win a lot of games 9-6 or 10-8 on times when pitchers aren't keeping the ball on the ground. Other than that, I've been following Denard Span's twitter and hoping to read things about how he's working on getting good jumps and reads on the ball off the bat. Because hope is all there really is with this defense and he's got a lot of ground to cover with Young/Kubel/Cuddyer at his sides.
I'm thinking the same thing about the Tigers this year. I have no idea what to expect from Jackson, but Carlos Guillen will be an absolute embarrassment in left until he gets hurt or they finally relegate him to full time DH. Ordonez has limited range and isn't getting any younger. I think the biggest hole though is Scott Sizemore replacing Polanco with any of their pitchers on the mound. Porcello needs a solid infield defense, Scherzer is too wild and throws too many pitches to work through 4-out innings, and Verlander is significantly better from the windup.
Regarding the Twins being the favorites, i'm still not convinced that the Metrodome didn't inflate their win total by 3-5 wins per season. So there's that variable. But otherwise, yeah, they might have the best team on paper. Smith did a good job this offseason.
Regarding the Twins being the favorites, i'm still not convinced that the Metrodome didn't inflate their win total by 3-5 wins per season. So there's that variable. But otherwise, yeah, they might have the best team on paper. Smith did a good job this offseason.
QUOTE (shampoosuicide @ Feb 5 2010, 01:05 PM)
Yeah. This isn't sitting well. I'd be fine with one year, $7MM. They really don't need any more baggage right now.
Considering I haven't seen one credible source suggest anyone else is offering more than $2-3M (at this point, I think the only team that hasn't publicly moved on is the Blue Jays), I don't even know that I'd be happy with $7M for 1 year. $5M/1 is the highest I'd go - he gets the Abreu Collar for 2010.
QUOTE (shampoosuicide @ Feb 5 2010, 02:25 PM)
Regarding the Twins being the favorites, i'm still not convinced that the Metrodome didn't inflate their win total by 3-5 wins per season. So there's that variable. But otherwise, yeah, they might have the best team on paper. Smith did a good job this offseason.
We'll see. The thing about the dome is that it historically made them awful on the road. They built their teams for that turf. So the Lew Fords, Nick Puntos, Jason Tyners, etc. all had more utility at home accumulating those swinging bunts singles and whatnot that weren't as accessible on the road. They mainly focused on 'putting the ball in play' and not striking out because when you do that in the dome any number of things can go wrong for a team unfamiliar with the surroundings. As the new park approached, they shifted to more hitters capable of getting on base and hitting with power. This year they have 6 hitters capable of hitting 20 home runs or more (7 if you're still a believer in Delmon Young). So while it's entirely possible they won't be as dominant at home as they were, I still think they'll be quite good at home and more capable on the road.
Did you guys like the Verlander deal?
Honestly, if it comes down that i think the Yankees will pay up. Part of me thinks that Cashman's been downplaying a preference to keep Damon all offseason just so he can swoop in at the last minute and match the highest offer. If it's $5MM, i don't see the Yankees sticking with Gardner over Damon to avoid going $3MM over their target payroll (unless there's some sort of luxury tax hit or another option that I'm overlooking).
Either way, it's hard for me to believe that someone wouldn't match a $5MM offer from the Tigers. The Braves maybe?
EDIT: Forgot about the Winn signing. That might change things.
Either way, it's hard for me to believe that someone wouldn't match a $5MM offer from the Tigers. The Braves maybe?
EDIT: Forgot about the Winn signing. That might change things.
QUOTE (MattW @ Feb 5 2010, 03:48 PM)
QUOTE (shampoosuicide @ Feb 5 2010, 02:25 PM)
Regarding the Twins being the favorites, i'm still not convinced that the Metrodome didn't inflate their win total by 3-5 wins per season. So there's that variable. But otherwise, yeah, they might have the best team on paper. Smith did a good job this offseason.
We'll see. The thing about the dome is that it historically made them awful on the road. They built their teams for that turf. So the Lew Fords, Nick Puntos, Jason Tyners, etc. all had more utility at home accumulating those swinging bunts singles and whatnot that weren't as accessible on the road. They mainly focused on 'putting the ball in play' and not striking out because when you do that in the dome any number of things can go wrong for a team unfamiliar with the surroundings. As the new park approached, they shifted to more hitters capable of getting on base and hitting with power. This year they have 6 hitters capable of hitting 20 home runs or more (7 if you're still a believer in Delmon Young). So while it's entirely possible they won't be as dominant at home as they were, I still think they'll be quite good at home and more capable on the road.
Did you guys like the Verlander deal?
Interesting point. They really do have a more conventional team this time around, but i'll wait and see how the new ballpark plays out before declaring them a great team.
It's hard not to like the Verlander deal if he stays healthy. My only concern beyond that is that Dombrowski hasn't learned his lesson and keeps handing out multi-year multi-million dollar deals to guys who don't deserve them. With Cabrera and Verlander making so much, they'll have their hands tied really fast if the rest of the payroll isn't flexible.
Assuming they do the right thing and shit-can Ordonez as soon as he hits his first real slump so his option for next year doesn't vest, they'll have a crapload of money coming off the books next year. And potentially a cheap rotation beyond Verlander. I like the move.
I'll never for the life of me understand how somehow who so obviously shovels all kinds of unbelievable bullshit can be so successful.
QUOTE
Damon has rooted for the Red Wings for years. He started doing so because of how much he likes Yzerman. Damon's agent, Scott Boras, talked Monday about Damon's fervor for the Red Wings.
"When he and I go to a Greek restaurant, he always orders octopus," Boras said.
"When he and I go to a Greek restaurant, he always orders octopus," Boras said.
QUOTE (MattW @ Jan 26 2010, 06:30 PM)
I'd imagine they'll sign a bench defensive replacement for the OF next.
Jacque 'Double J' Jones, welcome back! (Shaking head in hands, resigned laugh)
But hey he had a +4.5 UZR in CF in 2007. And Jason Pridie sucks too so this is kind of a wash.
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Feb 9 2010, 03:04 PM)
I'll never for the life of me understand how somehow who so obviously shovels all kinds of unbelievable bullshit can be so successful.
QUOTE
Damon has rooted for the Red Wings for years. He started doing so because of how much he likes Yzerman. Damon's agent, Scott Boras, talked Monday about Damon's fervor for the Red Wings.
"When he and I go to a Greek restaurant, he always orders octopus," Boras said.
"When he and I go to a Greek restaurant, he always orders octopus," Boras said.
Last week the Reds traded Willy Taveras to the A's. Today the A's cut Taveras.
Yeah, he sucks as a leadoff hitter, but he steals 40 bases in his sleep.
Wonder which team will take a low priced flier on him?
Yeah, he sucks as a leadoff hitter, but he steals 40 bases in his sleep.
Wonder which team will take a low priced flier on him?
The early rumors are the Astros. I had thought they put him on waivers within 3 hours of the trade.
QUOTE (Complain @ Feb 10 2010, 01:36 PM)
Last week the Reds traded Willy Taveras to the A's. Today the A's cut Taveras.
Yeah, he sucks as a leadoff hitter, but he steals 40 bases in his sleep.
Wonder which team will take a low priced flier on him?
Yeah, he sucks as a leadoff hitter, but he steals 40 bases in his sleep.
Wonder which team will take a low priced flier on him?
The funny thing about this trade is that Aaron Miles went to the Dusty Baker Reds and Aaron Miles is such a Dusty Baker-type player. He'll probably give him 500+ PA's.
They did put him on waivers within 3 hours of the trade, but yesterday they actually cut him. And yeah, Ed Wade talked about how he was popular within the organization. And of yeah, fast.
How about the Mets looking to sign Mike Jacobs to play 1B and waiting until mid-February to have Keith Hernandez work with David Murphy? I don't know if it's my disdain for NY sports teams or my Philly fandom that makes me so overjoyed to read about the Mets' problems. I hope Minaya never leaves.
Hey, Matt -- can you post (or send to me) the HR derby format you used a few years back? If you don't mind, of course.
The season we did it there were a ton more 40+ HR hitters then there are today.
We did
Choose 1
-40+ home run hitter from the prior season
-30-39 "
Choose 4
20-29 "
Choose 6
0-19 "
The team with the most HRs at the All-Star break wins.
I think the rule was 400 PA qualify the player in their category. If they had under that amount, the year prior was the one in play. Therefore if A-Rod's injury had hypothetically reduced him to only had 380 PAs, his 30 HR in 2009 wouldn't count. The 2008 numbers would be the barometer. And he hit 35 in 08, so it wouldn't matter.
That's the gist of it. Feel free to tinker with it if you run one.
We did
Choose 1
-40+ home run hitter from the prior season
-30-39 "
Choose 4
20-29 "
Choose 6
0-19 "
The team with the most HRs at the All-Star break wins.
I think the rule was 400 PA qualify the player in their category. If they had under that amount, the year prior was the one in play. Therefore if A-Rod's injury had hypothetically reduced him to only had 380 PAs, his 30 HR in 2009 wouldn't count. The 2008 numbers would be the barometer. And he hit 35 in 08, so it wouldn't matter.
That's the gist of it. Feel free to tinker with it if you run one.
Cool - thank you.
So the Braves made a 1-year offer to Damon for what's reported to be about $4M, including deferred money. Supposedly it's for $2M now plus $2M deferred. He's still holding out for 2 years. I will be hugely pissed off if the Tigers cave on that. If they want him, it looks like they can get him for maybe $5M straight up, 1 year. I wouldn't be happy rooting for him, but I can't deny he would make the team (offensively) better. If they go to 2 years, that would be unnecessary and a huge mistake.
Fuck. There's a rumor that the Tigers might be willing to go two years, $14MM. I've come to terms with everything they've done this offseason but this would be hard to swallow.
I would be pissed about that. Unless the next day, Porcello signs an 8-year, $35M deal.
I think at best we get an agreement that Ordonez moves on without a grievance. This is flooring me right now.
Kinda surprised none of the White Sox folks have chimed in to pay their respects to Frank Thomas' career.
Apparently Lincecum and the Giants have a deal. Two years, probably around $25M.
White Sox just announced that they're retiring #35 in honor of Frank Thomas. But use one of the more unflattering pictures they could have possibly used.
QUOTE
Frank Thomas, two-time Most Valuable Player with the Chicago White Sox and one of baseball’s greatest offensive players during his playing career, will be honored by the franchise by having his uniform No. 35 retired during an on-field ceremony on “Frank Thomas Day,” August 29, when the White Sox take on the New York Yankees (1:05 p.m.).
The announcement by the White Sox comes one day after Thomas announced his retirement at Thursday night’s annual Comcast SportsNet Awards dinner to benefit March of Dimes. Thomas, who received the Lifetime Achievement Award at the fundraising event, meets with the Chicago media Friday morning at U.S. Cellular Field.
“I am officially retired. It’s time. It’s in my heart and it’s time to move on,” Thomas told Comcast SportsNet Thursday night. “I’m proud to say I’m ready to retire. I enjoyed a wonderful career and have nothing left to prove. It’s a young man’s game now.”
Thomas’ No. 35 becomes the 10th uniform number to be retired by the White Sox, joining No. 2 (Nellie Fox), No. 3 (Harold Baines), No. 4 (Luke Appling), No. 9 (Minnie Minoso), No. 11 (Luis Aparicio, currently un-retired for the 2010 season), No. 16 (Ted Lyons), No. 19 (Billy Pierce), No. 42 (Jackie Robinson) and No. 72 (Carlton Fisk).
The announcement by the White Sox comes one day after Thomas announced his retirement at Thursday night’s annual Comcast SportsNet Awards dinner to benefit March of Dimes. Thomas, who received the Lifetime Achievement Award at the fundraising event, meets with the Chicago media Friday morning at U.S. Cellular Field.
“I am officially retired. It’s time. It’s in my heart and it’s time to move on,” Thomas told Comcast SportsNet Thursday night. “I’m proud to say I’m ready to retire. I enjoyed a wonderful career and have nothing left to prove. It’s a young man’s game now.”
Thomas’ No. 35 becomes the 10th uniform number to be retired by the White Sox, joining No. 2 (Nellie Fox), No. 3 (Harold Baines), No. 4 (Luke Appling), No. 9 (Minnie Minoso), No. 11 (Luis Aparicio, currently un-retired for the 2010 season), No. 16 (Ted Lyons), No. 19 (Billy Pierce), No. 42 (Jackie Robinson) and No. 72 (Carlton Fisk).
That was probably the only picture they had of him smiling.
Lincecum signed for $23M. That's pretty much in line with what they should have paid.
Lincecum signed for $23M. That's pretty much in line with what they should have paid.
I think Kenny Williams is hoping he can make enough noise to force the Tigers to pay a few extra mil for Damon. Probably won't have much of an effect, though. Seems like late-off-season hot air.
Jermaine Dye is getting dangerously close to ending his career. I have to think someone will sign him for $1-2 million, but the possible suitors are dwindling.
I think everybody kind of digested it a year ago when he didn't sign - it was extremely unlikely from that point on that he would play again. I hope he goes down in history not just as a great hitter, but as a greater hitter even by the standards of a high-offense era. Just think about those Sosa v. Thomas arguments people used to have and how silly they sound now.
The '90s:Thomas::'00s:Pujols. Enough said.
Jermaine Dye is getting dangerously close to ending his career. I have to think someone will sign him for $1-2 million, but the possible suitors are dwindling.
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Feb 12 2010, 10:24 AM)
Kinda surprised none of the White Sox folks have chimed in to pay their respects to Frank Thomas' career.
I think everybody kind of digested it a year ago when he didn't sign - it was extremely unlikely from that point on that he would play again. I hope he goes down in history not just as a great hitter, but as a greater hitter even by the standards of a high-offense era. Just think about those Sosa v. Thomas arguments people used to have and how silly they sound now.
The '90s:Thomas::'00s:Pujols. Enough said.
Frank Thomas: One of the toughest outs the game has ever seen.
My three most vivid Big Hurt memories
- I drove 6 hours each way within a 24 hour period to watch Johan Santana face Barry Zito in Game 1 of the 2006 ALDS only to see him crush one off Johan early, then another off Jessie Crain in the 8th.
- In 2003, the Twins and White Sox played one of the best baseball games I can remember. Extra innings, lead changes, miraculous defensive plays. Frank hit the walk off.
- In 2005, I was doing an internship and my boss made me drive to Oak Brook to run a few errands including getting some work done on his car. As I waited in the Luxury Motors lobby, Big Frank was sitting across from me just hanging out with the salesmen, reading about and discussing the newest Hollywood couple Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. I don't think he was getting his car serviced or anything, I think he just really liked the people who worked there. My thought, 'who likes hanging out with car salesmen?'
My three most vivid Big Hurt memories
- I drove 6 hours each way within a 24 hour period to watch Johan Santana face Barry Zito in Game 1 of the 2006 ALDS only to see him crush one off Johan early, then another off Jessie Crain in the 8th.
- In 2003, the Twins and White Sox played one of the best baseball games I can remember. Extra innings, lead changes, miraculous defensive plays. Frank hit the walk off.
- In 2005, I was doing an internship and my boss made me drive to Oak Brook to run a few errands including getting some work done on his car. As I waited in the Luxury Motors lobby, Big Frank was sitting across from me just hanging out with the salesmen, reading about and discussing the newest Hollywood couple Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. I don't think he was getting his car serviced or anything, I think he just really liked the people who worked there. My thought, 'who likes hanging out with car salesmen?'
QUOTE (ParticleHustler @ Feb 12 2010, 10:24 AM)
Kinda surprised none of the White Sox folks have chimed in to pay their respects to Frank Thomas' career.
As a Sox fan, I will chime in and say that every time he came to bat, you stopped what you were doing and watched to see what he would do next. He's the only baseball player in my 35+ years as a White Sox fan I can say that about.
I know he DH'd for most of his career, but if he isn't a first ballot guy, tear the joint down.
I hope I can have the money and time in 5 years to go to his HOF induction. Easily and without question he was the best player in White Sox history, which, if you look back on it, isn't saying a WHOLE lot, but he's hands down my favorite White Sox player of all time.
QUOTE (Killface @ Feb 15 2010, 03:48 PM)
which, if you look back on it, isn't saying a WHOLE lot
Um... that he's better than Pierce, Walsh, Aparacio or any player in a 100+ history does say a whole lot, actually
Shoulda known Taveras would go to the Nationals - every former Red goes there at some point
The washed-up Red strategy is just SO due to pay off big one of these days.
QUOTE (Raj (Hey Genius) @ Feb 16 2010, 11:32 AM)
QUOTE (Killface @ Feb 15 2010, 03:48 PM)
which, if you look back on it, isn't saying a WHOLE lot
Um... that he's better than Pierce, Walsh, Aparacio or any player in a 100+ history does say a whole lot, actually
The point I was making was that the list of really great players in White Sox history is shorter than most teams who have been around as long as the White Sox.
I mean, the leader in career homers before Frank was Harold Baines with a whopping 221 homers.
I'm not diminishing the great players in Sox history, but the crowd Frank had to pass was much lower in quality than other teams. Outside of Nellie Fox, Eddie Collins, Luis Aparacio and Luke Appling there really isn't much there. Harold maybe...Ozzie Guillen is 6th all time in career hits, that should demonstrate my point.
No hatred for the real elite players that I mentioned above, but the list is small compared to other franchises.
QUOTE (Killface @ Feb 16 2010, 01:51 PM)
The point I was making was that the list of really great players in White Sox history is shorter than most teams who have been around as long as the White Sox.
Which other teams are you talking about? I think the Yankees loom over all of baseball in this respect, due in part to a combination of organizational excellence (they were just better run than everyone else especially in the golden age), but also due to their superior ability to hold onto free agents (due to payroll and market desireablility) for most or all of their careers, where most other clubs would have had to lose them on the market (and thus lose their claim to that player as uniquely part of "their" legacy).
Maybe I'm not educated enough about the histories of each of the clubs that are as old as the Sox, but beyond the Yankees, I'm not aware of other "charter" clubs that are that so superior.
QUOTE
I mean, the leader in career homers before Frank was Harold Baines with a whopping 221 homers.
Ozzie Guillen is 6th all time in career hits, that should demonstrate my point.
Ozzie Guillen is 6th all time in career hits, that should demonstrate my point.
That actually demonstrates something different then what you're arguing. The club leaderboards aren't dominated by the team's best players, they're domianted by the guys the club was able to retain for most or all of their careers. What about guys like Dick Allen, Tim Raines, and Albert Belle? They were better players than Baines and Guillen, but the Sox could only keep them for a few years each, so they don't show up on the leaderboards.
Certainly isn't scientific, but according to the caps/plaques in the HOF, the White Sox have fewer inductees than:
Tigers
A's
Dodgers
Braves
Pirates
Phillies
Indians
Cubs
Yankees
Cardinals
Giants
And the Yankees are only third on the list, quite a bit behind the Giants, who are far superior to all teams. So yeah, for a team as old as the Sox, not too impressive.
Tigers
A's
Dodgers
Braves
Pirates
Phillies
Indians
Cubs
Yankees
Cardinals
Giants
And the Yankees are only third on the list, quite a bit behind the Giants, who are far superior to all teams. So yeah, for a team as old as the Sox, not too impressive.
Is that players going in as ________? I was looking into it too and I noticed the White Sox had 23 hall of famers and the Red Sox had 30 something. Fisk was on both lists I saw.
QUOTE (Bob Loblaw @ Feb 16 2010, 07:34 PM)
Certainly isn't scientific, but according to the caps/plaques in the HOF, the White Sox have fewer inductees than
The Hall of Fame is kind of bad at its job, though. Billy Pierce isn't even in the HOF. It doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.
I'm not even saying it's not true, I would just like to see, like, an article from a reasonably respected baseball historian quantifying it in some way, and looking at why that might be.
So are these rumors about Damon to the White Sox just an attempt to really push the Tigers to give him what he wants, or are the rumors that Damon (and his wife) want a more "cosmopolitan" city to play in true, and he's using the Tigers to get the White Sox to go higher?
Who says it's all about just pushing the Tigers? Boras does this all the time. He leaks rumors that 2 or more teams are interested and tries to generate a bargaining position. And he hopes that the press falls in love with the signing enough to apply their own pressure on the GM to 'just get it done' or look weak to his fan base. It was awfully kind of Brian Sabean not to fall for it last year with Joe Crede.
I asked whether he was using one team to get the other to move, meaning he was pushing both the Tigers and the White Sox. And actually, if we take the contract numbers out there as somewhat close to the truth, it seems the idea that Damon and/or his wife don't want to go to Detroit has some merit and he's now pushing for the Sox to come close to what the Tigers are offering. The White Sox's best offer is reported to be worth $4.5M present value for 1 year, while the Tigers are reported to have gone to $7M/1 and possibly $14/2. If there's that kind of difference between the two, it seems likely he's doing anything he can (like playing golf with Sox players) to get the White Sox to up their offer so he doesn't have to take the Tigers' offer.
I don't think there's much room for the White Sox to go up after the blockbuster acquisitions of Teahen, Pierre, etc. It's just a matter of how much Damon is willing to give up so his wife can go to Shedd and Blue Man Group, or alternately if Detroit is willing to go $8 or $9 million to nail him down. I think he's going to sign with Detroit for ~$8 mil/1 year, but it's hard to ever rule out a Kenny "wild card, bitches" Williams move.
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