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Jigga
Look how far we've come, or have not:



On Bonds: You're Damn Right Race Matters
By Dave Zirin


Is Barry Bonds the object of a racist witch-hunt? Over the last week I have had to publicly argue this issue against some of the finest minds of my generation (all right, John Rocker and Jose Canseco). In addition, I have duked it out on talk radio, sports radio, email chats, and various blogs. The dominant argument I hear repeatedly, whether from Mr. Rocker or Mr. Liberal Blogger, is that I am an idiot if I think that the Bonds steroid-mania is all about bigotry run amok. Unfortunately that is not my argument.

To be clear:

I don't think that everyone against Bonds is a racist. I don't think every sportswriter who wants Bonds punished is a racist. And I certainly don't think anyone who believes in harsh penalties for steroid use is a racist. One can hate Barry Bonds and also spend Sundays singing "We Shall Overcome" with the Harlem Boys Choir before reading select passages from Go Tell it On The Mountain. But to argue that race has nothing to do with the saga of Barry Bonds is to practice ignorance frightening in its Rocker-ian grandiosity.

Of course you can always simply agree with San Francisco Giants owner Peter Magowan, CEO of Safeway Supermarkets and anti-union zealot, who believes that it is a remarkable sign of racial progress that Barry Bonds is flayed before the public. Magowan said, "I don't believe this is a case of racism. In fact, I think this shows how far we've come. If the media brought this up 20 years ago, they would have been considered racists."

Now that's progress. The media can be as racist as they want without being called on it.

The fact is that racism smears this entire story like rancid cream cheese on a stale bialy.

First and foremost, there are the death threats. USA Ttoday reported yesterday that Bonds is being deluged with letters that threaten his life, many with overtones about as subtle as a burning cross. Today I was on a tremendous radio show out of Cincinnati called ‘The Buzz’ and we were deluged with calls by older African-Americans who recalled with chilling clarity the trials of Henry Aaron. When Aaron approached Babe Ruth's home run record, the death threats came rolling in. Now that Bonds is just six behind Ruth's 714, the slurs are returning 32 years later like a white power Halley's Comet.

Dr. Harry Edwards, the famed sports sociologist, recently said, "The same animosity and resentment that Hank Aaron suffered through when he broke Babe Ruth's record has been exacerbated because of the cloud of steroid suspicion. This is a visceral response to a black man (passing) Babe Ruth."

Then, there is the way the media is covering this. There is no question that Bonds has spent his career treating the press the way a baby treats a diaper. But Bonds is not the first athlete to sneer at a reporter or two. In fact Mark McGwire was a notoriously surly personality who was presented to us like a grinning Paul Bunyon. It's not who you are, but who the media tells us you are. When it comes to Bonds, the press has called for everything but a big scarlet S on his chest, all of which has the appearance of a hellacious double standard. When a prominent ESPN talk show host says, "If [Bonds] did it, hang him", the perception is that this is little more than a railroad job of a prominent and outspoken African-American superstar on the precipice of Ruth and Aaron's records.

This is why Louisiana State University professor Leonard Moore can say with sincerity, "White America doesn't want him to (pass) Babe Ruth and is doing everything they can to stop him. America hasn't had a white hope since the retirement of (NBA star) Larry Bird, and once Bonds passes Ruth, there's nothing that will make (Ruth) unique, and they're scared. And I'm scared for Bonds."

Finally there is the Major League Baseball establishment itself. This week they took the extraordinary step of forming a commission to "investigate and root out steroids in the game" led by former Senator George Mitchell.

But the probe is already being derided as a sham. How seriously would we take an investigation into Iraq's missing "weapons of mass destruction" if it was headed by Dick Cheney? Would we accept an examination of racial profiling if it was led by John Ashcroft? Of course not. It would be a farce. And so it is with Senator Mitchell in charge. Mitchell is on the board of the Boston Red Sox. He is also chairman of The Walt Disney Co., the parent company of ESPN, the main national broadcast partner of baseball. In other words, he has an actual material interest in keeping the spotlight off the owners, including what they knew and when they knew it, and keeping it on the players. Particularly Barry Bonds.

According to one writer with a serious pipeline into the commissioner's office, Richard Justice, the investigation is "Totally [aimed at Barry Bonds.] He is the number one player going for the most hallowed record... There may be other names that come out but this is all about Barry Bonds... Bud wants the prescription, well more than perception, that he is doing this the right way...I promise you he will not get the chance to break Hank Aaron's record. I will be willing to bet you. I think Henry Aaron and Bud Selig will be grilling brauts in Bud's backyard."

In other words, this is all smoke in our eyes, blurring the fact that this really about getting Bonds out of the game before he passes Aaron. Is this racially motivated? The question is too simplistic. The fact is that Bud Selig is deflecting criticism off the owners by putting the heat on the most prominent player in the game who happens to be Black. Whether this is conjured up in some back room or not is beside the point. MLB owners seem willing to sacrifice Bonds if it keeps Congress and the public off their backs. This is why some prominent baseball people are loudly speaking a word rarely said in the world of sports: race.

All-star Minnesota Twin Torii Hunter, another of baseball's dwindling African-American superstars, called the investigation "stupid." "They can say what they want, but there's no way they would launch an investigation if Barry Bonds was not about to break Babe Ruth's record," Hunter said. "It's so obvious what's going on. He has never failed a drug test and said he never took steroids, but everybody keeps trying to disgrace him. How come nobody even talks about Mark McGwire anymore? Or (Rafael) Palmeiro (who tested positive for steroids in 2005)? Whenever I go home I hear people say all of the time, 'Baseball just doesn't like black people.' Here's the greatest hitter in the game, and they're scrutinizing him like crazy.' It's killing me because you know it's about race."

Dave Steward, a former 20 game winner and front office exec who now is an agent, said to one reporter, "People keep talking about how he's not supposed to keep hitting homers and doing phenomenal things because he's 40-plus. Well, Roger Clemens is 40-plus, too, and nobody ever brings his name up. Why not? Is it because he's white?"

Matt Lawton, who unlike Bonds has tested positive for steroids, said, "If (Bonds) were white, he'd be a poster boy in baseball, not an outcast."

None of this means that any critique of Bonds is inherently racist or that there doesn't need to be some way to deal with performance enhancers. It means that the overheated rhetoric needs to cease. It means that if baseball decides it doesn't want steroids in its game, and wants to "clean up its own house" it should realize that it is cheap, gutter politics to focus on one person as if that person is the root of all anabolic evil. They should realize that in the current climate, it emboldens a racist fringe. If they don't realize it, we sure as hell should.

A couple years ago, Bonds said, "This is something we, as African-American athletes, live with every day. I don't need a headline that says, 'Bonds says there's racism in the game of baseball.' We all know it. It's just that some people don't want to admit it. They're going to play dumb like they don't know what the hell is going on."

That is absolutely right. It's not defenders of Bonds who are putting race on the table, but whether you are a Bonds supporter or not, all anti-racists need to take it off
Ben
He's also a cheater. What's this 'dwindling African-American superstars' business? ANTI LATINO BIAS?
Jigga
I am amazed Ben can make a comment like that at a minority. Things are changing round here I see.

People just mad another black going past Babes record, that all. Even BEn is mad at that it would seem, and everyone in sports is on drugs, so what, i dont care, it makes for a better spectacle, just make the shit legal.
Ben
Hey, I'm sure some people who hate on Barry are racist. That doesn't exonerate him.
helmet52
I dislike Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmiero, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, and Jason Giambi equally. Given the chance, i'd "boo" all of them.
tjenz
QUOTE(helmet52 @ Apr 5 2006, 08:33 AM) [snapback]56706[/snapback]

I dislike Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmiero, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, and Jason Giambi equally. Given the chance, i'd "boo" all of them.

You must be one of them dirty Japs!
Uncle Remus
QUOTE(Ben @ Apr 5 2006, 07:57 AM) [snapback]56683[/snapback]

Hey, I'm sure some people who hate on Barry on racist. That doesn't exonerate him.


Exactly. The more I hear about Bonds, the less likely I am to defend him. I was out of the Baseball loop during his ascent to home run king and can now say that it was most definitely due to 'roids. The guy brought this on himself, but the Baseball commission knew of it and are now making up for not doing anything, and that isn't any better.
tjenz
IPB Image
wh1tep0ny
he's not a cheater tho

Steroids were not OFFICIALY banned in Baseball

it was a sort of "Unwritten Rule"

but to me an Unwritten Rule is not a rule.

and for once I think there is some racism going on

Baseball looked the other way while McGwire and Sosa were chasing Maris
I truely believe had Sosa broke the record instead of Mark the backlash would of happened sooner.

I realize Sosa isn't black but to the real racists of the world his dark skin would of been enough fuel.

also unless your sport is something that anyone can do and muscle mass etc will give u an advantage i.e. running and weightlifting I don't care about steroids

I could take steroids everyday and not be able to hit a 95 mph fastball or a crazy ass curveball I don't have the SKILLS. Infact last year a PITCHER with a horrible record (something like 4-18) got busted so it's not a cure all. If you suck, You Suck!

I wouldn't be able to dunk on steroids or make more 3pt shots - I guess I would be a better rebounder maybe. But even that is more about hustle and smarts which is why at 6-3 Barkley could out rebound centers and taller forwards.

I still wouldn't be able to catch a 30 yard pass any better then now as i can't see worth a shit through a helmet

Lastly, Bonds is vilified by the MEDIA. A bunch of fat or skinny losers who were never good at anything sports related so they decided to write about sports. This is how they get their revenge on the jocks they could never be. Bonds was "mean" to them so they started writing stories about what a jerk he was. When he first came up he had a rep for being a nice guy and a good teammate. Then he crossed the media and they started digging and who knows how truthful their stories were. Sure Jeff Kent didn't like him but JK was also a lier who broke his bones riding a Motorcycle which via his contract was forbidden and he got caught lying. So we should take the word of an admitted lier?

granted Barry is no Kirby Puckett but the fact the media has made him seem worse then Ty Cobb is unfair.
tjenz
Fuck Barry Bonds
If this is a modern lynching, Bonds gave the lynchers the rope
MLB didn't have a policy on roids, but taking roids, like Barry is accused of doing, is a violation of the law.
Do steroids help you hit better? I don't know, but taking human growth hormones, like Bonds is accused of doing will help you hit better as it improves eye sight.
Without steroids, Bonds was a first ballot hall of fame caliber player and arguabley the best player of his era.
With the scandal, he might be lucky to ever get in
Jackie Rogers Jr.
Let's not ignore the fact that Giambi was villified when he (practically) admitted use, while Sheffield has gotten off scott-free despite substatial evidence of the same. Pulling out the race card on this matter is, for the most part, bullshit. Of course, some jack-ass racists are going to come out of the woodwork when an established black athlete fucks up, but in Bonds case, he's just an arrogant prick.
velocity
QUOTE(helmet52 @ Apr 5 2006, 06:33 AM) [snapback]56706[/snapback]

I dislike Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmiero, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, and Jason Giambi equally. Given the chance, i'd "boo" all of them.

Be sure to "boo" every offensive lineman, defensive lineman & linebacker in pro football, and most of those in college, too.
MCF
I kind of agree with Jigga, but it's not about race. It's a lynching, but not because Bonds is black. That's where Jigga is way off.

It's because Bonds is a complete asshole and people hate him. They want to see his life messed up because he is a pompous jackass who has always hurt himself by being such. And, further, nobody else made their steriod use so public and made their aquaintances with dealers so public.

The guy's a tool and nobody wants to see a cheating tool break an all-time record.

It has nothing to do with race. If McGwire was in this race, right now, and still held the single season HR record: He'd be going through a similar situation.

Racism still exists, but it has nothing to do with this.
MattW
QUOTE(Jigga @ Apr 5 2006, 02:34 AM) [snapback]56641[/snapback]

Over the last week I have had to publicly argue this issue against some of the finest minds of my generation (all right, John Rocker and Jose Canseco).


Canseco has said publicly that he thinks race definitely plays a part in the Bonds scrutiny and that he and McGuire, I'm surprised he was 'debating' this.

I think Bonds used.

I think this investigation should follow its pretense and be about the widespread usage of steroids in the MLB, not after Bonds.

I think racism is a factor of this, but it's not as much of a part as the media going out of their way to destroy someone who's been rude and awful to them for years.

Bonds is on my fantasy team with the money riding on it and I'd only trade him for nothing less than Felix Hernandez.
helmet52
QUOTE(velocity @ Apr 5 2006, 09:40 AM) [snapback]56743[/snapback]

Be sure to "boo" every offensive lineman, defensive lineman & linebacker in pro football, and most of those in college, too.


Why should I? Just because they're larger athletes, i'm supposed to assume that they're all on steroids? Unlike baseball, the NFL has been testing for steroids since 1987 and instituted year-round random testing since 1990. The NFL has the most stringent steroid testing of all professional sports.

Unless you want to argue that NFL players are better at avoiding steroid detection - which is purely speculative.
Ben
Dude baseball was going to look the other way as long as it could. Sammy Sosa's skin ain't no hazy shade of winter. The problem is that Congress and the Chronicle are kicking their ass and it's gotten to the point where it can no longer be ignored.
Uncle Remus
and the other thing is that Bonds is most likely the biggest example of a guy really benefitting from taking 'roids.

Plus, that book has really brought his shit to the forefront.
MattW
QUOTE(Ben @ Apr 5 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]56823[/snapback]

Dude baseball was going to look the other way as long as it could. Sammy Sosa's skin ain't no hazy shade of winter.


This is pretty much the argument people who cry racism are using.

QUOTE(Ballbag Hitter @ Apr 5 2006, 11:15 AM) [snapback]56859[/snapback]

and the other thing is that Bonds is most likely the biggest example of a guy really benefitting from taking 'roids.

Plus, that book has really brought his shit to the forefront.


At this point it might be Nomar Garciaparra, also with the downside too.
Ben
What about Nomar? You've lost me.

And if it wasn't cheating or wrong or whatever, why does Barry continue to deny it? What's the secret? If it was accepted or okay or standard practice, you should be able to say so publicly. Are we still at the point where we're witholding judgment on his guilt?
MattW
Last year Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe got suspended from the paper for saying that all of these freakishly serious injuries happening to Nomar were due to steroid use that was never questioned. Though he added close to 20 pounds of muscle mass in 2000 and had a career year then, and has been completely unable to stay healthy. Ryan said that having a tendon ripped from your thigh bone while stepping out of the batter's box, doesn't just happen to people.

Granted, he had no concrete evidence, but the numbers to suggest usage are definitely there from 2000-2003.
Complain
Keep in mind that Bonds has denied using steroids numerous times.
EastBayJ
IPB Image

"Hi! My name is Nikolai Bonds. My daddy uses me to hide from the media when he gets caught fucking women other than my mother.
MCF
QUOTE(MattW @ Apr 5 2006, 11:39 AM) [snapback]56877[/snapback]

Last year Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe got suspended from the paper for saying that all of these freakishly serious injuries happening to Nomar were due to steroid use that was never questioned. Though he added close to 20 pounds of muscle mass in 2000 and had a career year then, and has been completely unable to stay healthy. Ryan said that having a tendon ripped from your thigh bone while stepping out of the batter's box, doesn't just happen to people.

Granted, he had no concrete evidence, but the numbers to suggest usage are definitely there from 2000-2003.


My guess would be, and I do base this on seeing first hand in high school in the 80s (right before steroid era), that MOST baseball players used at one time or another.

I'll go so far as to say I think that they still will use now even with the new rules. They'll find a way around it.

Bonds is a MAJOR scapegoat here. But, it just doesn't have anything to do with his skin color. You think Roger Clemens wasn't juicing last year? If you do: you're nuts.
Rocks And Blows
There has been a big record all-ready broken in baseball by a steroid freak and his name is Eric Gagne and he broke the most consecutive saves record, I understand that not the HR record or matching DiMaggio's hit record but it's still very impressive. Now look at Gagne's carrer up until 2003, he was an awful starter and sucked coming out of the bullpen and couldn't keep his ERA under 4.5. And then all of a sudden he gets huge, is throwing 99 mph fatballs and breaks all sorts of records for a closer. Then last year his arm got all fucked up and he didn't play all season and now he has left Dodgers camp for "personal" reasons. I don't even like baseball and I find it to be very boring but it's so obvious most these guys were juiced, including Clemons. I think they should be allowed to juice all they want, that way they can 700ft homers and we can watch their bodies explode live on TV.
Howard Rock
I'm not willing to say that race has NOTHING to do with this but Bonds' situation is different than any of the other high priority steroid cases we have seen so far. McGwire was already retired. Sosa was on the way out the door as was Palmiero. Bonds is the only high priority steriod-related target who has stuck around to play and is still good.

Bonds is continuing to pursue records, and people know he still has a decent chance of breaking Ruth and Aaron if he sticks around. For McGwire and Sosa, that wasn't an issue. Everyone could see they weren't going to catch anyone.

All that said, of course this has something to do with race. The extent to which is debatable. A black man is accused of a crime and is feeling all the pressures of that every day. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the heat he's getting, but the fact is he's a black man and it's not as if you can just exclude race from the discussion. Whether each individual person realizes it or not doesn't matter, as you can't separate race from the host of other issues involved in this discussion.
MCF
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 01:12 PM) [snapback]56981[/snapback]

I'm not willing to say that race has NOTHING to do with this but Bonds' situation is different than any of the other high priority steroid cases we have seen so far. McGwire was already retired. Sosa was on the way out the door as was Palmiero. Bonds is the only high priority steriod-related target who has stuck around to play and is still good.

Bonds is continuing to pursue records, and people know he still has a decent chance of breaking Ruth and Aaron if he sticks around. For McGwire and Sosa, that wasn't an issue. Everyone could see they weren't going to catch anyone.

All that said, of course this has something to do with race. The extent to which is debatable. A black man is accused of a crime and is feeling all the pressures of that every day. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the heat he's getting, but the fact is he's a black man and it's not as if you can just exclude race from the discussion. Whether each individual person realizes it or not doesn't matter, as you can't separate race from the host of other issues involved in this discussion.


Sorry, but this has zero to do with the color of Bond's skin. Your logic is very faulty. By your logic, because we are all different races, EVERYTHING has to do with race. And, that is just dumb and does not apply here. It has nothing to do with this argument. Bonds is not being attacked because he is black, he's being attacked because he was openly affiliated with known steroid dealers in the bay area, as well as admitting it indirectly under oath. Which, frankly, is the only thing that separates him from other users who have not openly admitted.

This has nothing to do with him being black.
Howard Rock
QUOTE(MCF @ Apr 5 2006, 02:26 PM) [snapback]56998[/snapback]

Sorry, but this has zero to do with the color of Bond's skin. Your logic is very faulty. By your logic, because we are all different races, EVERYTHING has to do with race. And, that is just dumb and does not apply here. It has nothing to do with this argument. Bonds is not being attacked because he is black, he's being attacked because he was openly affiliated with known steroid dealers in the bay area, as well as admitting it indirectly under oath. Which, frankly, is the only thing that separates him from other users who have not openly admitted.

This has nothing to do with him being black.


Ok whatever. You think I'm wrong. I know you're wrong. You cannot separate race out of the equation. It doesn't work like that. Sorry.
MCF
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]57009[/snapback]

Ok whatever. You think I'm wrong. I know you're wrong. You cannot separate race out of the equation. It doesn't work like that. Sorry.


By your logic, you can't separate race from ANY equation, correct? I agree with you.

But, that doesn't change the fact that Barry Bond's skin could be blue, he could be from a remote island in the S. Pacific, not speak any english, etc. And, under these same circumstances he would be under the same pressure.

So, you really think that the people who wrote "shadows"; wrote it because Bonds was black and they wanted to get him? That's dumb.
Howard Rock
QUOTE(MCF @ Apr 5 2006, 02:49 PM) [snapback]57031[/snapback]

By your logic, you can't separate race from ANY equation, correct? I agree with you.

But, that doesn't change the fact that Barry Bond's skin could be blue, he could be from a remote island in the S. Pacific, not speak any english, etc. And, under these same circumstances he would be under the same pressure.

So, you really think that the people who wrote "shadows"; wrote it because Bonds was black and they wanted to get him? That's dumb.


There's not much point in this because you are misrepresenting my point. Did I even mention Shadows? No. Goodbye.

QUOTE(MCF @ Apr 5 2006, 02:49 PM) [snapback]57031[/snapback]

By your logic, you can't separate race from ANY equation, correct? I agree with you.


Then, IT IS....partially about race. Which is what I said originally.
MCF
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]57032[/snapback]

There's not much point in this because you are misrepresenting my point. Did I even mention Shadows? No. Goodbye.
Then, IT IS....partially about race. Which is what I said originally.


Partially about race? So, who is the racist? The "media"? you? the authors? or MLB?
Howard Rock
What I would like to see, from people like MCF who are so quick to dismissively say, "No. This has nothing to do with race. If you think so, you're dumb." is what is about race then? When is it ok to say an issues is about race? It seems that people who advance invective in this manner are only willing to say an issue is about race when the KKK is storming your house or there is a cross burning on the front lawn.

Bonds is a black man, with all his faults, up against a white media, white owners, white authors, white sportscasters, white fans....thus, I repeat, it is partially about race. It's not the whole issue, but it is part of it.

And with that, I will not be replying anymore in this thread.

I am quite relaxed. Thank you.
MCF
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]57053[/snapback]

What I would like to see, from people like MCF who are so quick to dismissively say, "No. This has nothing to do with race. If you think so, you're dumb." is what is about race then? When is it ok to say an issues is about race? It seems that people who advance invective in this manner are only willing to say an issue is about race when the KKK is storming your house or there is a cross burning on the front lawn.

Bonds is a black man, with all his faults, up against a white media, white owners, white authors, white sportscasters, white fans....thus, I repeat, it is partially about race. It's not the whole issue, but it is part of it.

And with that, I will not be replying anymore in this thread.


You need to really relax. I did not say you were dumb, just that playing the race card about Barry Bond's is dumb. Your statements about white media, white fans, etc. Is way, way, so far off base it's not even funny.

This has nothing to do with race, and you have done absolutley nothing to prove to me that it has. This "attack" on Bonds has nothing to do with the color of his skin. It has to do with his prolonged use of steriods, his high profile affiliations with known steriod dealers, and the fact that he is generally a bad guy. AND, most importantly, that he is the best player of his (steroid) generation and approaching the greatest of all records for the MLB after shattering the other greatest single season record. Not because he's black. Prove me wrong, I'll admit it.
Rocks And Blows
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]57053[/snapback]

Bonds is a black man, with all his faults, up against a white media


Does some of this have to do with race, yeah more then likely, but I think your talking about the white media is a little off base. Is most of the "news" media white, yes. But the "sports" media is very eclectic race wise. I remember last year when Steve Nash won the MVP people were saying that he won over Shaq because the media wanted a new white superstar, but then guys including Shaq, Barkley and Terry Armour pointed out that almost half of the beat writers for the NBA and others who vote for the NBA MVP are black. I don't know the percentage of baseball beat wriers who are black, but I get the idea alot of them are and alot of them are also Hispanic.
MattW
So this article comes from a Marxist website, huh...
helmet52
You 2 boys are really hung up on this issue aren't you?

Rock : "partially" about race
MCF : "nothing to do" with race

I think the fact that Bonds IS black, and the majority of the media and baseball-watching public ARE white, automatically brings race into the equation. Its somewhat inevitable based on those simple facts alone. That's not to say that anyone is being "racist" as MCF questioned. Race just becomes a very small part of the greater story.

That being said, I think the race issue is a very MINOR (big emphasis on MINOR) part of this whole story. MCF is correct - the crux of the story involves arguably the finest hitter ever being a steroid user and a cheater. That's the real story.
Howard Rock
I can never stick to "I'm out of this thread promises..

QUOTE(helmet52 @ Apr 5 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]57128[/snapback]

I think the fact that Bonds IS black, and the majority of the media and baseball-watching public ARE white, automatically brings race into the equation. Its somewhat inevitable based on those simple facts alone.


How can you say this? Then this...

QUOTE
MCF is correct - the crux of the story involves arguably the finest hitter ever being a steroid user and a cheater. That's the real story.


This is what I'm arguing for crying out loud. It is part of the issue. A small part.

Do you really think the white media (I maintain the validity of that statement in this case, this isn't the NBA) are going to talk about Bonds as a "black" man? That plays into the rabid paranoia that white America has about talking about race in the first place. Why wasn't this about McGwire? Palmerio? Giambi? Why are people going after Bonds now? Timing, yes, partially. How BB deals with the media, yes, partially. Race, yes, partially.

It is not possible to take race out of the variety of factors that are feeding this issue. It's not entirely about race. It is partially about race. Just because no one in the media has written or said "Bonds is a stupid nigger regarding this whole situation" doesn't mean it isn't partially about race.
MattW
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 03:12 PM) [snapback]57153[/snapback]


It is not possible to take race out of the variety of factors that are feeding this issue. It's not entirely about race. It is partially about race. Just because no one in the media has written or said "Bonds is a stupid nigger regarding this whole situation" doesn't mean it isn't partially about race.


I think this is the biggest difficulty with white people noticing racism without a slur being involved. I think we're raised to exclusively associate racism with the usage of derrogatory terms. Without them, racism is much harder to grasp for people who have never experienced it.

That's also why I'm staying out of this conversation.
Howard Rock
QUOTE(MattW @ Apr 5 2006, 04:16 PM) [snapback]57161[/snapback]

That's also why I'm staying out of this conversation.


I really wish I had done this. Shit.
helmet52
QUOTE(Howard Rock @ Apr 5 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]57166[/snapback]

I really wish I had done this. Shit.


When i say that MCF is "correct" I'm NOT taking his side on this argument. I'm only saying he's correct as to the larger issue.

I wasn't taking his side Rock. I actually believe that race IS a part of the story, but I also believe that its a very minor part of the story.
MCF
QUOTE(helmet52 @ Apr 5 2006, 03:41 PM) [snapback]57198[/snapback]

When i say that MCF is "correct" I'm NOT taking his side on this argument. I'm only saying he's correct as to the larger issue.

I wasn't taking his side Rock. I actually believe that race IS a part of the story, but I also believe that its a very minor part of the story.


Barry Bonds being black has nothing to do with it. Nobody cares. Only ideological thinkers who spend too much time on message boards and overtly paranoid black people think so. I do not.

That's it for me on this thread.

Cheeerio
Freddie Freelance
QUOTE(The Priest @ Apr 5 2006, 07:06 AM) [snapback]56720[/snapback]

IPB Image

San Diego's got attitude, too!
wh1tep0ny
throwing syringes at Bonds is the new "Freebird" yelp for sportsfans
EastBayJ
By the time Barroid gets to Philadelphia, the fans will be throwing real syringes.


It's gonna get hella ugly before it's all over. I just hope Barroid doesn't cry like he did last night in his ESPN debut.
Rad Monkey
wait wait?

Barry Bonds is black?

Oh boohoo his dad was a millionaire baseball player, it's not like he ever faced any discrimination when it comes to baseball or in life (If you're rich, you can purple as far as anyone cares). If anything, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and like a typical rich boy any real life criticism sends him into a temper tantrum.

He admitted to using the "clear" and "cream" supplied by his trainer Greg Anderson. He isn't alleged to have used steroids, he did use steroids.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file...NGGFA0UDU65.DTL

I say give him a big fat asterisk when he breaks Aaron's record.
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