With the release of Alice in Wonderland (which I haven't seen yet) and reading Rotten Tomoatoes recent top ten Burton films list got me thinking about Tim Burton. I'm curious what the SOMBies think of him and his films. I absolutely adore a few of his films, but also feel like his aesthetic has been pretty stagnant, especially lately.

Here's how it breaks down for me:

Love: (Starting with my favorite)
Edward Scissorhands
Big Fish
Beetlejuice
Pee-wee's Big Adventure

Like:
Batman
Batman Returns

Meh:
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Sleepy Hollow

Haven't seen:
Vincent
Frankenweenie
Ed Wood
Mars Attacks!
Corpse Bride
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
Alice in Wonderland


What say you?

Favorites:
Ed Wood
Mars Attacks!
Beetlejuice
Pee-wee's Big Adventure
Batman Returns

Like Well Enough:
Batman
Edward Scissorhands
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Sleepy Hollow

Don't Like:
Planet of the Apes
Big Fish

Haven't seen:
Vincent
Frankenweenie
Corpse Bride
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
Alice in Wonderland

didn't realize that he actually directed Corpse Bride - but yeah - will have to check it out. thought Henry Selick did.

if anyone puts either pee wee's big adventure or beetlejuice in anything other than their top category for tim burton films, they should probably be questioned.

my list would be almost exactly like n.k's above, except i'd put alice in wonderland in the "meh" category along with the other horrid remakes he's done.

Hasn't made a film I've wanted to see twice for 15 years.

and Pee Wee's Big Adventure doesn't mean anything to me, as I'm sure it doesn't to most people not from the US.

Maybe not. You could likewise say there are British comedies that most Americans would have trouble getting into, but it doesn't mean they're not funny. Humor's an odd thing... some people like to say "funny is funny," to reduce it to being something, like pornography, you know when you see, but it's rarely universal.

That said Pee Wee's Big Adventure is a great film.

Anyone who hasn't seen Vincent should pull it up on YouTube. Great little short film, and only 7 minutes long.

And Burton's best film is Ed Wood. Hands down.

Mars Attacks! & Ed Wood are great; I used to like Scissorhands a lot; the rest are middling/faceless.

Love:
Batman - still the best comic to film and is in my top 100 films ever
Edward Scissorhands
Big Fish
Beetlejuice
Pee-wee's Big Adventure
Ed wood

Like
Sleepy hollow
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Batman Returns
Sweeney Todd

Havent Seen Alice yet but plan to at the IMAX soon

Edward Scissorhands, Batman, and Beetlejuice are all pretty great, and Ed Wood is one of my favorite films of all time. Everything is else is pretty meh.

Does anyone else think Johnny Depp's Mad Hatter getup makes him look like Madonna (circa now)?

or elijah wood circa North








ok, maybe not North. But still, dead ringer for Elijah W.

Just watched a little bit of Pee Wee's Big Adventure on Netflix watch instantly. Still really funny. And I had know idea that Phil Hartman co-wrote that movie and was a big part in creating Pee Wee.

For Pee Wee's alone, the man is a legend. Hadn't even realized he had anything to do with Mars Attacks... but now I like him more.

That's Henry Selick's film.

Yeah, I thought that was a Tim Burton directed film as well until I read up on Wikipedia. It was directed by Selick. Burton produced it and wrote the story the movie was based on. According to Wiki Burton didn't direct it because he was busy with Batman Returns. Corpse Bride was his first full length animated film.

His work has become a collection of Hot Topic cliches. Hey look it's Johnny Depp as another pale faced weirdo!

That's a pretty funny video. Actually portays what I said in my OP about the fact that I 'feel like his aesthetic has been pretty stagnant, especially lately.'

But it's directed by someone else. Lots of films are written by and produced by someone other than director. It doesn't change who the author of the film is. Similarly, George Lucas shouldn't get authorship credit for Empire Strikes Back.

that's pretty OTM.

that being said, Batman, Beetlejuice and Pee Wee's Big Adventure are all amazing.

I am pretty scared to see Alice.

but now that I think of it, i quite enjoyed Sweeny Todd and Sleepy Hollow, so who knows.

saw ALICE - it's awful.

Visuals keep you entertained for the first half of the movie...second half you just want to go home.

Every time a Tim Burton movie comes out I think to myself "man i love Tim Burton i should see this" and just about every time I'm disappointed. Ed Wood and Edward Scissorhands are classics as is Beetlejuice. I like Batman and Big Fish, but beyond that I'm not really all that enthused. Mostly I think I like Batman and Beetlejuice because I love Michael Keaton not due to Tim Burton.

this guy gets alot of love for like 3 good movies he made in the 80's.

Steve Buscemi should've gotten the mad hatter roll...

There were a few in the 90s too.

He's not a good storyteller, in the long form anyway. It would seem he would be a much better short subject filmmaker.

I'm not as big into Burton as most of my friends.

Loved
-Big Fish
-Beetle Juice
-Batman Returns
-Ed Wood

Enjoyed to a degree
-Batman
-Sleepy Hollow
-Mars Attacks

Detested
-Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
-Sweeney Todd

Haven't seen
-Frankenweenie
-Pee Wee's Big Adventure (Well since I was 8 or 9)
-Edward Scissorhands
-Planet of the Apes
-Corpse Bride
-Alice in Wonderland

Happy to see this. I'm not a crazy Burton fan, but I think a lot of people over looked this film.

Probably the last Burton film i've had the desire to see more then once.

Author does not necessarily equal director. Matter of fact, I don't wholly buy into auteur theory in that regard, and am not a big fan of the "a film by" credit. That said, it's usually pretty clear which person - director, producer, writer, director, etc. - is the author of the film and its pretty obvious that Nightmare is film molded by Tim Burton. The fact that it is so regularly mistook for being directed by Burton should be a pretty large red flag to anyone that his hand is the one most responsible for shaping the film.

I just saw Alice with my gf this afternoon. it was enjoyable, but not great. I didn't go in with any type of expectations, think about who made the film too much, or know who was in it except Johnny Depp.

It's not something I would go out of my way to see again, but it was a fun two hour distraction.

If Burton's name was all over Coraline, people would probably think it was his film as well. How many people last year thought 9 was a Tim Burton film? Yes, Nightmare looks like a Tim Burton film because it was adapted from his artwork, but I think the film's quality owes more to Selick's contribution than Burton's. If Selick had directed Burton's Alice with the exact same artwork, it would probably be a better film (saying that sight unseen, of course). It seems weird to me to give credit for a film to anyone other than the film's director, especially when that director is someone who clearly has his own vision and personal approach to filmmaking.

Alice was pretty bad but still managed to be entertaining. I think in general though I like the idea of a Tim Burton film more than any of his actual films. Scissorhands is the only one I've seen that I'm particularly fond of, but I've seen only half of his films.

Pee Wee's Big Adventure
Beetle Juice
Mars Attacks
Ed Wood
Edward Scissorhands
Big Fish
Sleepy Hollow
Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Batman Returns
Planet of the Apes
Batman

Turned off after about 15 minutes.
Sweeney Todd

Haven't seen.
Alice in Wonderland

I don’t see how a fan of Batman could be a big fan of Burton’s Batman movies. Wimpy Batman. Fat Joker. Joker killed Thomas & Martha, WTF?!?!

saw Alice last night, and it wasn't anywhere near as awful as i was expecting.

it was actually quite enjoyable.

This thread makes me realize I've only seen one of Burton's films. Charlie & The Chocolate Factory and I thought it was ok not great.

I thought it was awful. But the bright side is it only gets better from there.

Charlie and The Chocolate Factory is easily his worst.

loved beetlejuice and have never seen any peewee. it was a cartoon as well right? yea, never saw that either. from what i've seen in trailer clips, the character just never appealed to me.
loved mars attacks, thought i liked the batman stuff but you know, batman films just don't hold up for me when i revisit, planet of the apes was pretty bad (although helen bonham carter's character was hot in an 80s paula abdul kinda stylie), big fish i should probably see, ed wood was pretty good and i need to see it again it's been too long, and i actually liked edward scissorhands but i was with a hot girl at the time and her presence may have persuaded my judgement.

conclusion: tim burton is ok...if i have the time.

Love:
Pee-wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Big Fish
Beetlejuice

Like:
Ed Wood
Batman

Meh:
Planet of the Apes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory <--it's primarily Depp I object to
Sleepy Hollow
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
Batman Returns
Mars Attacks!

Haven't seen:
Vincent
Frankenweenie
Corpse Bride
Alice in Wonderland

I'm probably the only one here who thinks Burton is a hack who couldn't cut it in Disney's animation studios. His style is always the same-- lanky and gangrenous or lumpy and scarred.

Even when he's trying to stretch stylistically and has a decent script (Ed Wood), he lets his actors continuously mug. "So long as you're crazy... that's good enough for me." I have no idea how Martin Landau got past that and turned in his portrait of Lugosi. Succeeded in spite of it not because of it.

sweet jesus tap dancing christ is Alice terrible. if you're reading this do yourself a favor and don't waste a dollar on this movie. we walked out with a good 30 minutes left. horribly boring and pointless unless you're under the age of seven. the special effects aren't even impressive. plot only vaguely follows the book/original disney film and has no flow, drama or tension whatsoever; it focuses on alice battling a fucking dragon with a sword (???), prominently features a yeti-like white haired snow beast (????), has anne hathaway acting like an idiot in an asinine subplot about the white queen (where did she come from?) and tries to shoehorn in a meaningful friendship between alice and the hatter. maybe some of these characters were in "through the looking glass" but i don't remember them at all from the original.

classic characters like the chesire cat and caterpillar should've just used the voiceovers from the old cartoon, new actors are totally forgettable and their animation is robotic; they look very much like 3d cg models. crispin glover is utterly dull in a big role as the king of hearts or something, don't remember that character being as prominent in the book or original movie and this new one droops significantly whenever he's on screen. depp is an embarrassment, and his garish character design is in woeful taste by burton: he looks like god damn ronald mcdonald crossed with a lizard. to be fair the girl who played alice is pretty good & bonham carter's performance is entertaining but beyond that and a few chuckles here and there this movie is worthless.

Watching Batman Returns right now. Wonderful film. I think I'll do a Burton retrospective in a week or so. I've been meaning to rewatch some of these older films for awhile.

^Batman Returns may be Burton's most underrated film. It's everything Batman ought to have been yet wasn't. It had a story that made sense; believable, compelling drama; and a real sense that heroism comes with a price tag.

2nd place in most-underrated probably goes to Sleepy Hollow. Far from a great movie, it was nonetheless entertaining - the atmospherics and quirk never got in the way of the story's hurtling pace.

Never saw Sweeney Todd. Don't plan to. Singing the subtext has a way of ruining movies for me. Don't care if I ever see Alice, either.

Planet of the Apes in an infinitely worse film than Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

Maybe it deserves a revisit from me. I've seen it only once. I was in high school and saw it the theaters with a buddy of mine who was high as as a kite on acid. I could barely concentrate on the movie because he kept freaking the fuck out all the way through. Admittedly, it wasn't the best movie going experience.

Danny Devito is so icky though. Which I guess is the point, but the creepy pall he cast on the rest of the movie made for a negative viewing experience.

Edward Scissorhands *** (but no rush to see it again)

Big Fish *** (ditto...we bought it, then we sold it)

Beetlejuice *** 1/2

Pee-wee's Big Adventure ***1/2


Batman **** (worth watching anytime, great popcorn movie)

Batman Returns ** (maybe someday I will sit and watch all of it, but the bits and parts that I have seen have really not turned me on)

Planet of the Apes * (pointless remake really)

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory *** (would have been 4 from me if they didn't tack on the "Daddy issues")

Sleepy Hollow *** (worth another rent)


Vincent *** (short film is on the Nightmare Before Christmas DVD...his first animated work, and pretty much sets in motion his entire m.o.)

Frankenweenie *** (unsettling at times, not for easily troubled kids, Disney reluctantly released it only after Burton hit the big time... also on the Nightmare DVD)

Ed Wood ****

Mars Attacks! * (when making a spoof movie, make it funny. I don't recall laughing once.)
Corpse Bride ** (tries to recapture the magic of Nightmare, but lacks originality...I blame it on more on Danny Elfman than anything, would have been better without songs)

Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street *** (kind of an impersonal work, but still a big accomplishment considering he helmed a big Broadway musical with folks who aren't really singers; probably wise that he cut the "Greek chorus" from Sondheim's score, too)

Saw Alice today and it was pretty atrocious
Burton has always had such a great visual style so I was shocked to see how ...ugly... Alice looked
I'm not sure if it was the late stage change to 3D or something but yeah was really let down

http://features.metacritic.com/features/20...-in-wonderland/

Interesting analysis of Burton's films.