Sound Opinions Message Board > Sun Kil Moon

C.I.

Feb 9 2012, 06:57 PM

http://www.caldoverderecords.com/

QUOTE

mong The Leaves is the 5th full length album by Mark Kozelek under the Sun Kil Moon moniker. Played almost entirely on nylon string guitar, this 17-song all original album was recorded between October 2011 and January 2012 in San Francisco. Among The Leaves - words which caught Mark’s attention from a John Connolly novel - finds Mark relaxed, singing playfully about his life as a musician while retaining the melancholic spirit of his 20 year catalog. Mark’s love for San Francisco and Northern California are at the heart of this new album. “My first album (Down Colorful Hill) was released in 1992” says Kozelek, “but creatively, I feel like I’m just beginning. The new album was written and recorded impulsively, without second guessing. I didn’t have that kind of confidence in the past.” Unlike Red House Painters’ epic Rollercoaster, described by Rolling Stone as “the slowest and mopiest self revelations ever put to tape” or Sun Kil Moon’s Ghosts of the Great Highway, which Billboard Magazine called “heartbreaking,” Among The Leaves displays a more raw and humorous side of Mark’s songwriting. Aaron Prellwitz, recording engineer of Red House Painters and all 5 Sun Kil Moon albums describes the latest effort as “wonderfully direct." Kozelek curiously ties together legends Joe Frazier, Bobby Fischer and Ed Gein in ‘The Winery’, ‘‘Song for Richard Collopy’ is a touching tribute to the late San Francisco guitar repairman, and ‘Sunshine In Chicago’ – written just before taking the stage at a Chicago venue last year – is a funny, self deprecating poke at life on the road. Though Among The Leaves is mostly in the solo, nylon string style of Admiral Fell Promises, a new ensemble of players joined Mark for a portion of the record, recalling the same spirit as April and Tiny Cities, but with a fresh, new sound. The album will be released on CD, vinyl, and digitally, with bonus tracks to be announced. More information soon at www.caldoverderecords.com

TRACK LISTING:
1. I Know It’s Pathetic But That Was The Greatest Night Of My Life
2. Sunshine In Chicago
3. The Moderately Talented Yet Attractive Young Woman vs. The Exceptionally Talented Yet Not So Attractive Middle Aged Man
4. That Bird Has A Broken Wing
5. Elaine
6. The Winery
7. Young Love
8. Song For Richard Collopy
9. Among The Leaves
10. Red Poison
11. Track Number 8
12. Not Much Rhymes With Everything’s Awesome At All Times
13. King Fish
14. Lonely Mountain
15. UK Blues
16. UK Blues 2
17. Black Kite

so yeah, pretty excited, as ominous as the potential for this to end up being "The Silly Sun Kil Moon Album" is.

b*derty

Feb 9 2012, 07:02 PM

can't wait for this.
i seem to enjoy his accoustic stuff more.

Montana

Feb 9 2012, 09:06 PM

Awesome. Looking forward to the Northern California vibes.

Hans Christian Anderson

Feb 9 2012, 09:51 PM

begin the somb fawning. awesome news. queuing up admiral fell promisies right now. what a talent.

solace

Feb 9 2012, 09:54 PM

while i'd prefer it be another full band/more electric fair like Ghosts or April, still f'n excited as hell.

and some of those song titles are amazing... esp:

'The Moderately Talented Yet Attractive Young Woman vs. The Exceptionally Talented Yet Not So Attractive Middle Aged Man'

C.I.

Feb 9 2012, 10:06 PM

looking forward to koz's stand up comedy album

Chronodiggity

Feb 9 2012, 10:07 PM

have any of the people who were initially down on Admiral Fell Promises come around on it yet? i would find it almost unbelievable if anyone isn't in love with at least a few of those songs by now.

and obviously this is the most exciting news ever.

solace

Feb 9 2012, 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Chronodiggity @ Feb 9 2012, 09:07 PM)

have any of the people who were initially down on Admiral Fell Promises come around on it yet? i would find it almost unbelievable if anyone isn't in love with at least a few of those songs by now.

and obviously this is the most exciting news ever.

it's killer no question, but it gets a bit same-y for me and doesn't have the reply value of Ghosts or April (both are in my top 15 of the 00's, Ghosts is prolly top 3)

monotony

Feb 10 2012, 01:37 AM

I think I like April the most now but I wouldn't argue with those people that say AFP is his best

track listing looks goofy. EXCITED!

Pavement Ist Rad

Feb 10 2012, 01:48 AM

Admiral Fell Promises is fucking incredible.

I'M VERY PSYCHED FOR THIS RECORDING!!!!

washing machine

Feb 10 2012, 02:42 AM

Saw him on Monday night for his second show in St. Catharines, Ontario in a year. New songs were incredibly self-deprecating and honestly lacked both the immediately discernible, gorgeous melodies and lyrics I've always known him for. They were a big disappointment and a blemish on what was otherwise a great show (encore of Cruiser > River > Mistress did me right in). Still, I'm super optimistic for this, but the new songs at the show had me a bit worried. He's at his best in the studio though, so I really believe he can win me over yet. And yeah, this is coming from a guy who loved Admiral and most of his other acoustic work from the get-go.

Hans Christian Anderson

Feb 10 2012, 12:31 PM

i agree in that while i like the acoustic stuff it gets a bit samey for me after a while. april still remains his highpoint in my eyes, but really all his shit is great.

i like the sound of a self deprecating koz record. i don't see this being his best or anything, but even if its nothing more than a goofy curveball/detour from a 20+ year career of discernible, gorgeous melodies and lyrics, i think that has enough merit in and of itself. its easy to forget what a good sense of humor mark has and how he doesn't take himself entirely seriously.

Pavement Ist Rad

Feb 10 2012, 12:43 PM

I don't see anything "samey" about AFP. It has as much replay value as anything he's done. There's a big difference between that album and, say, Little Drummer Boy, where he uses a similar picking style to rework his catalog and downplay all the characteristics that distinguished the songs in the first place.

"Samey" was probably the number one criticism that April haters were eager to hurl at that album. And still is, 'cause there are plenty of people who still haven't come around and think that everything after Ghosts is a snooze.

Pretty sure you can chalk these kinds of situations up to listeners being so desperate to have opinions that all they're really doing is making excuses for not engaging fully with a recording.

Hans Christian Anderson

Feb 10 2012, 01:00 PM

don't get me wrong, i think AFP is a very good record and perhaps needed to emphasize the phrase "bit" a bit more. one of the zillion things i love about april is that it's equally apt at rockers like the light and tonight the sky as is it acoustic tunes like blue orchids (probably my all time favorite koz song...) and heron blue. i don't get that with AFP, and while it's still good, i enjoy the variety a bit more, i guess.

but man, april. what a terrific terrific terrific record. having flashbacks to spring 2008 just thinking about that record. wow. love ghosts as well but april is at least a grade or two above it in my eyes.

Pat Sansone

Feb 10 2012, 02:24 PM

I need to revisit April (which I loved, but not as much as Ghosts). But my recollection is that I never loved it because it had rockers. Even the "rockers" on April don't really rock. It's all about that haunting atmosphere and, to a degree, a unified/consistent quality to the songs (some might say samey quality). I don't mean it as an insult. Listening to Koz is sometimes like listening to ambient music. There isn't a ton of dynamic range, you know what to expect going in for the most part, and a consistent melancholic atmosphere hangs over everything. That's what he does best.

solace

Feb 10 2012, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (Pavement Ist Rad @ Feb 10 2012, 11:43 AM)

I don't see anything "samey" about AFP. It has as much replay value as anything he's done. There's a big difference between that album and, say, Little Drummer Boy, where he uses a similar picking style to rework his catalog and downplay all the characteristics that distinguished the songs in the first place.

"Samey" was probably the number one criticism that April haters were eager to hurl at that album. And still is, 'cause there are plenty of people who still haven't come around and think that everything after Ghosts is a snooze.

Pretty sure you can chalk these kinds of situations up to listeners being so desperate to have opinions that all they're really doing is making excuses for not engaging fully with a recording.

nope. def not a case of needing to HAVE AN OPINION in this case.

hell, i have 2 copies of AFP on vinyl (white and marbled) even...

it's just not a full ALBUM for me... it's a collection of lovely songs, but doesn't flow nearly as amazing as Ghosts or April, which feel like a fully fledged out and sequenced record.

but also musically, strictly nylon string guitar accompaniment for 60 minutes isn't really my thing, whether it's Jose Gonzalez or even by someone I love as much as Mark. i need a bit more interesting things going on to fully hold my excitement level & interest for that long (chock that up to my ADHD, or maybe just personal pref, idk). maybe if the record was closer to 30-45 min i'd play it all the way through more?

like i said, i love it, but i much prefer Mark's more fuller arrangements, always have even going back to RHP in the 90's

Pavement Ist Rad

Feb 10 2012, 02:50 PM

QUOTE (solace @ Feb 10 2012, 01:37 PM)

I much prefer Mark's more fuller arrangements, always have even going back to RHCP in the 90's

Quoted for posterity.

Obviously his whole career is a turd compared to BSSM, but that's beside the point.

solace

Feb 10 2012, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (Pavement Ist Rad @ Feb 10 2012, 01:50 PM)

Quoted for posterity.

Obviously his whole career is a turd compared to BSSM, but that's beside the point.

hahahaha, that's a pretty awesome typo right there

Hans Christian Anderson

Feb 10 2012, 08:24 PM

oooh, this exchange may need to replace the montana quote in my signature. i agree that BSSM rules but dunno if it usurps any koz work. it's close though.

i like the idea of koz being like ambient music/not having much dynamic range. i don't agree 100%, but at the same time i totally see where you're coming from and what you're talking about. i do think that ghost has more true "rockers" (salvador sanchez, chiefly), but i don't agree that april doesn't have any, as "tonight the sky" is probably the best neil young imitation i've ever heard, chiefly in the guitar tone. that tune rocks. sorry patty.

april rules. the contrast between heron blue, tonight the sky and blue orchids alone allow for plenty of dynamic range.

but enough wallowing in the past. bring on Among The Leaves!

C.I.

Feb 10 2012, 10:43 PM

koz has never "rocked" in the traditional sense.

solace's criticisms of Admiral Fell Promises are incomprehensible to me. it's as complete a record as he's made, and the word "samey" doesn't belong within 5 miles of the conversation.

ghosts is easily the least-best SKM record.

as far as this new record, I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't mind if it's "self depreciating," but that's different than him giving us a jerky boys album. we'll see how things turn out. again, though, there is obviously the precedent of myself being wholly turned off by the idea of a "all classical guitar" album when AFP was announced, and you can see how that turned out by the second sentence of this post.

just didn't think the guy's jumping off point for LPX would be the first verse of "Third and Seneca," is all.

C.I.

Feb 11 2012, 05:36 PM

http://vimeo.com/36393924

"sunshine in chicago" after "heron blue" in this video.

sunshine in chicago, makes me feel pretty sad
my band played here a lot in the 90s when we had
lots of female fans, and fuck, they all were cute
now I just sign posters for guys in tennis shoes

Montana

Feb 11 2012, 05:56 PM

"Samey" is a fair criticism of AFP. Not a problem if you like that sound, though.

Chronodiggity

Feb 11 2012, 06:37 PM

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 10 2012, 07:43 PM)

ghosts is easily the least-best SKM record.

man, fuck this opinion though

C.I.

Feb 11 2012, 09:02 PM

QUOTE (Chronodiggity @ Feb 11 2012, 06:37 PM)

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 10 2012, 07:43 PM)

ghosts is easily the least-best SKM record.

man, fuck this opinion though

maybe, but I stand by it. don't get me wrong, you cannot fuck with "carry me ohio" and "salvador sanchez" and especially "duk koo kim," but at the end of the day it's the SKM record I return to least often, so far as I'm going to sit down with a kozelek record for a complete listening experience. it's got some of his best work, but it's also spotty and I don't think it congeals as well as his best work. "lily and parrots" can fuck off, "gentle moon" and "si paloma" may as well not exist.

and then it ends with an alternate take of "salvador sanchez." I've seen that defended as bring the album "full circle" or some shit, or that it's just as good, but I don't see it. sure it's nice, but so is the version of "the light" that graces the April bonus disk.

C.I.

Feb 11 2012, 09:05 PM

QUOTE (Montana @ Feb 11 2012, 05:56 PM)

"Samey" is a fair criticism of AFP. Not a problem if you like that sound, though.

fair maybe, but certainly surface-level.

Hans Christian Anderson

Feb 12 2012, 01:10 AM

like i said, that's about the only criticism i can leverage at it. otherwise its a fine record. i just prefer the other two original SKM records (and it's really close between AFP and ghosts, FWIW). i don't think it's fair to criticize criticism as "surface level" when i'm mostly grasping for criticism anyhow.

Pat Sansone

Feb 12 2012, 02:31 AM

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 11 2012, 08:02 PM)

QUOTE (Chronodiggity @ Feb 11 2012, 06:37 PM)

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 10 2012, 07:43 PM)

ghosts is easily the least-best SKM record.

man, fuck this opinion though

maybe, but I stand by it. don't get me wrong, you cannot fuck with "carry me ohio" and "salvador sanchez" and especially "duk koo kim," but at the end of the day it's the SKM record I return to least often, so far as I'm going to sit down with a kozelek record for a complete listening experience. it's got some of his best work, but it's also spotty and I don't think it congeals as well as his best work. "lily and parrots" can fuck off, "gentle moon" and "si paloma" may as well not exist.

and then it ends with an alternate take of "salvador sanchez." I've seen that defended as bring the album "full circle" or some shit, or that it's just as good, but I don't see it. sure it's nice, but so is the version of "the light" that graces the April bonus disk.

Couldn't disagree more. Sometimes I'm not in the mood to sit through 70 mins of Koz. Ghosts is damn near perfect in its length and consistent excellence.

solace

Feb 12 2012, 11:32 AM

QUOTE (Chronodiggity @ Feb 11 2012, 05:37 PM)

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 10 2012, 07:43 PM)

ghosts is easily the least-best SKM record.

man, fuck this opinion though

yeah. it has 3 of Koz's top 10 songs ever on it. (Glenn Tipton, Carry Me Ohio & Duk Koo Kim), and Lily & Parrots is up there for me too, sorry CI, love that song.

solace

Feb 12 2012, 11:34 AM

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 11 2012, 08:05 PM)

QUOTE (Montana @ Feb 11 2012, 05:56 PM)

"Samey" is a fair criticism of AFP. Not a problem if you like that sound, though.

fair maybe, but certainly surface-level.

not if you prefer (and always have preferred) Mark's fuller arrangements... it's just personal preference, no need to get all huffy over it.

like i said, i love AFP, but at the end of the day when i want to listen to SKM, other than the Modest Mouse covers record, it's the one i'd pull out last.

also... the Desertshore album from last year that mark sings 6 songs on and plays on is some of his best work to date (Mercy is a top 10 Koz song).

C.I.

Feb 12 2012, 11:58 AM

maybe we're just getting into semantics here, but my issue is that "samey" implies that it's not as intricate a record as he's put together. because it is. likely the most detailed recording mark kozelek has released. the double-tracked vocals, layers of guitar, etc. when you say "strictly nylon string guitar accompaniment for 60 minutes isn't really my thing," it makes me think you're not hearing everything going on throughout the record. and I don't mean to get all montana at you, because at the end of day maybe it is just "personal preference," which is totally fine with me. but the way you describe it is completely off the mark... or at least incomprehensible to me.

paves had the right of it earlier in the thread:

QUOTE (Pavement Ist Rad @ Feb 10 2012, 12:43 PM)

I don't see anything "samey" about AFP. It has as much replay value as anything he's done. There's a big difference between that album and, say, Little Drummer Boy, where he uses a similar picking style to rework his catalog and downplay all the characteristics that distinguished the songs in the first place.

solace

Feb 12 2012, 12:13 PM

the word same-y means that there is very little sonic diversity over the course of an entire album...

ie: the same instruments and very similar tempos throughout.

that's it.

there are very few solo artists who can hold my attention rapt for 60 minutes with just solo instrumentation and vocals (doesn't matter if it's layered or not), Koz is close, but even at his solo live shows i've sometimes gotten bored by the 90 min mark. (like i said, i do actually have ADHD, whether or not that effects my music listening skills sometimes, i'm not sure).

sure there are layers, but they're layers of much of the same thing. i'm not saying it was like some super easy album to make, just that personally it doesn't turn my musical crank on the level of Ghosts or April.

Pavement Ist Rad

Feb 12 2012, 12:22 PM

"same instruments and very similar tempos throughout"

Sounds like April. Or Rollercoaster.

solace

Feb 12 2012, 12:24 PM

QUOTE (Pavement Ist Rad @ Feb 12 2012, 11:22 AM)

"same instruments and very similar tempos throughout"

Sounds like April. Or Rollercoaster.

April has tons of different instrumentation and tempo changes tho... for example... when the electric guitars and heavy bit comes in at the 7:57 mark of Lost Verses:

i meant stuff like that... it makes the other nearly 8 minutes of dron-ier music more than worth the payoff. AFP doesn't have the dynamics and surprise turns like that too much.

as for Rollercoaster/RHP, i always sorta dug RHP some in the 90's, but it wasn't until Ghosts that my love for Koz was fully cemented, so take that as you will.

pigfuck

Feb 22 2012, 10:55 AM

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/13208-...ine-in-chicago/

this is great. He says 'fuck' really good.

solace

Feb 22 2012, 11:05 AM

QUOTE (pigfuck @ Feb 22 2012, 09:55 AM)

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/13208-...ine-in-chicago/

this is great. He says 'fuck' really good.

ha ha. while it's not quite as moving as his usual SKM stuff lyrically, i do like the humor

digging it musically a lot too... Xylophone!

edit: yeah, this is funny shit

pigfuck

Feb 22 2012, 11:33 AM

I find it more moving, tbh. The way he fixes on small details - the marquee, the yellowed note from a fan, his aching back, going home - of the present while ruminating on the past creates a sort of insert map of Koz's partial history. The humor, instead of undercutting, imo amplifies the pathos. It's really a perfect song.

tennessee jed

Feb 22 2012, 11:40 AM

QUOTE (solace @ Feb 12 2012, 12:24 PM)

QUOTE (Pavement Ist Rad @ Feb 12 2012, 11:22 AM)

"same instruments and very similar tempos throughout"

Sounds like April. Or Rollercoaster.

April has tons of different instrumentation and tempo changes tho... for example... when the electric guitars and heavy bit comes in at the 7:57 mark of Lost Verses:

i meant stuff like that... it makes the other nearly 8 minutes of dron-ier music more than worth the payoff. AFP doesn't have the dynamics and surprise turns like that too much.

as for Rollercoaster/RHP, i always sorta dug RHP some in the 90's, but it wasn't until Ghosts that my love for Koz was fully cemented, so take that as you will.

Couldn't have said it better myself...GOTGH and April are sooooo much better than AFP in my book.

solace

Feb 22 2012, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (pigfuck @ Feb 22 2012, 10:33 AM)

I find it more moving, tbh. The way he fixes on small details - the marquee, the yellowed note from a fan, his aching back, going home - of the present while ruminating on the past creates a sort of insert map of Koz's partial history. The humor, instead of undercutting, imo amplifies the pathos. It's really a perfect song.

different strokes i suppose...

i don't usually equate humor in music with moving.
moving to me means mostly emotional impact and heartfelt sentiment. the main emotion that song evokes from me is laughter.

regardless, i dig that song as much as a lot of AFP, so that bodes well

The Luscious Phil

Feb 22 2012, 01:46 PM

I do like that cover art.

The song is pretty good too.

Dead Flowers

Feb 22 2012, 02:34 PM

Big into this song. It's really pretty and the lyrics make me chuckle.

b*derty

Feb 22 2012, 02:58 PM

QUOTE (pigfuck @ Feb 22 2012, 10:33 AM)

I find it more moving, tbh. The way he fixes on small details - the marquee, the yellowed note from a fan, his aching back, going home - of the present while ruminating on the past creates a sort of insert map of Koz's partial history. The humor, instead of undercutting, imo amplifies the pathos. It's really a perfect song.

exactly.
the humor in it makes me feel real sad instead of laugh.
feels like one of the more honest songs i've heard in awhile. can't wait for this album.

solace

Feb 22 2012, 03:28 PM

my .02...

considering how dry and sarcastic Mark's sense of humor always has been, it seems more like he's poking fun of his fans with a lot of the lines on here, rather than being self deprecating (there's a bit of that too tho).

Pavement Ist Rad

Feb 22 2012, 05:48 PM

Listening to his music, attending his shows, and reading what fans have written about him, it's clear that he's a dick who is compelled to hurt people and secretly or perhaps not so secretly hates himself for it. That's what he's "famous" for. The lack of what you consider self deprecation really shouldn't come as a surprise.

This record will act as a crucial piece of Kozelek's art as an expression of who he is. For years, people have always said things like "His music is so beautiful but he's kind of an asshole." So sooner or later he's bound to make some music that reflects the fact that he's kind of an asshole.

C.I.

Feb 22 2012, 08:05 PM

I agree with paves and pigfuck.

sunshine in chicago makes me think about my dad
it was eight or nine siblings I am told that he had
when the summertime came his parents put him on a bus
and sent him to his uncle's in chicago for three months

that in itself is as beautiful as some of his best bits. reminds me of "glenn tipton." placed at the climax of a song that's nearly black comedy elsewhere, it is very powerful

solace

Feb 23 2012, 09:27 AM

fair enough... like i said, different strokes for different folks.

i tend to find more literal and spelled out storyline lyrics affect me less personally, doesn't matter the artist. i usually dig when I have to think a bit more to figure out what they mean (see Matt Berninger).

but like i said, i like this song musically as much as most any song on AFP, so that has me excited.

take his lyrics for the song 'Mercy' off the Desertshore album... it's probably a top 5 Kozelek song for me:

"hey man, didn't mean to keep it from you
hey man, didn't mean to bring things down
hey friend, didn't mean to take her from you
hey friend, didn't mean to cause any hurt
hey girl, didn't mean to go off flying
hey girl, didn't mean to make you cry
hey love, didn't mean to cause no worry
hey love, didn't mean to keep you up

out here in the city, lights are bright
out here in the city, i get in fights
up here in the buildings, things pulling at me
up here in the buildings, way too tired

hey kids, didn't mean to skip a summer
hey kids, didn't mean to spend no time
hey son, didn't mean to go off playing
hey son, had a lot to work to do
hey dear, quite a little trail you're leaving
hey dear, quite a long path you're on
hey bird, quite a big nest you're building
hey bird, quite a lot of time you've spent

out here in the mountains, all is quiet
up here in the mountains, no more fights
out here in the meadow, trees all grown
out here in the river, throwing stones

oh god, have mercy on me
oh god, have mercy please

oh branch, why'd you have to come down on me
oh ass, why'd you have to fall so hard
oh gun, why'd you have to pull the trigger
oh blade, why'd you have to cut so deep
out here on the highway, things rolling by
out here on the highway, why oh why
out here in the old home, cries and moans
out here in the gravestones, dirt and bones

oh god, have mercy on me
oh god, have mercy please"

for very personal reasons, it's kind of hard for me to even listen to that song's last verse and chorus anymore without bawling. i actually added that song to my funeral songs list

C.I.

Feb 23 2012, 06:25 PM

man I keep forgetting to listen to that desertshore album

I will fix that shortly, thank you solace.

Montana

Feb 23 2012, 08:01 PM

So is this out, or what?

C.I.

Feb 23 2012, 09:25 PM

No. one track has been made available, was posted on pitchfork yesterday

solace

Feb 23 2012, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (C.I. @ Feb 23 2012, 05:25 PM)

man I keep forgetting to listen to that desertshore album

I will fix that shortly, thank you solace.

The 6 tracks Mark sings on are SO damn good

Wish the vinyl would finally come out.

Hans Christian Anderson

Feb 23 2012, 11:49 PM

funny lacksidasical melody. i like it. cool change of pace for him, and yeah, probably a lot more "true" to his everyday personality than what he's cultivated over the years w/ SKM. dudes never struck me as an asshole though in interviews or whatever, and being able to write songs like lost verses or blue orchids pretty much absolves you from the category in my mind.