I wouldn't say that was the one moment when he dropped his guard. He could have been dropped many times. I understand that it wasn't the shows aim to create legends but I think they could have done it a bit better. Stringer's death was fucking great and I thought the way Snoop went was good also. Plus I just hated the fact that it was that punk kid that did it, I hated that little shit. It is only a minor quibble in an otherwise flawless show

great. i come in here to say how much i love dukie and i inadvertently find out omar dies! knew i shouldn't have glanced at the last post. fuck me

see ya when i'm done with the series i guess

Season 5 ruined the series.

Sopranos is still better.

In what way? I think having a story about the media wraps up the most powerful institutions that there are in a city and I thought it wholly necessary. Plus they couldn't have left it at season 4. Too many questions left unanswered

Also a side note, David Simon is fucking brilliant. Have been watching youtube clips and reading interviews and the man is a fucking genius. I wish I could come up with stories even 1/10th as good as he can

Yeah, Season 5 has gotten better since events of the day regarding newspapers have happened. Eerily prophetic in some ways.

Why do you feel the need to reiterate your opinion on something every few months? It's really strange.

Because I'm right.

He is right. Amnesious, just go back a handful of pages. You'll have a thorough explanation waiting for you there.

Just because S5 doesn't hit the high notes of the previous seasons, does not somehow mean it was a story that didn't need to be told. If you had a problem with the serial killer or Kenard's role you hadn't been following quite so well.

It was a ridiculous story. SPOILERS:


Greggs turning on her hero McNulty? McNulty's seasonal line was also incredibly stupid and overblown. It wasn't even the same character. And don't even get me started on Omar. It wasn't even the same character either. Season 5 was poorly written and a comple departure from the previous four seasons.

People can change. For instance, McNulty stopped drinking. Kima could have easily still been pissed at how McNulty brought them all down last time, and she probably didnt' want to see that happen again, especially to her buddy, Lester, etc.

McNulty has never really been anyone's hero.

It took a lot more guts to show you how people can change, then it would be to jsut show you the same old characters from before. Dude-- it's possible that if you stop an addiction, or move to a tropical island, etc. that you might change.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but Greggs turning on McNulty is very easy to justify. In her approach to police work, Kima was principled to a fault and would never cut corners. For example, even when police work became personal, Greggs refused to identify WeeBey has her shooter (despite McNulty & Bunk urging her to do so). With that scene, her character is established as a true officer who would never allow a co-worker to get away with staging a homicide. Furthermore, the fact that McNulty - who you are possibly correct in calling her hero - would be the one committing what in her eyes is the most heinous abuse of power, would only intensify her feelings of wrongdoing and betrayal.

Season 5 was the worst of the seasons, and altogether unnecessary, but not for the Kima storyline.

The best part of season 5 was the Baltimore Sun story line. Not so much the reporterwho took liberties with his writing, but the editor who was determined to stick to his guns and his rifts with upper management. That guy was probably my favourite character in S5 tbh.

Ridiculous post. It was totally in keeping with her character laid out in the previous 4 seasons. She was a "police" w/o compromise. I would also contest the claim that she was McNulty's hero. Very strange how you came to that assumption and I wouldn't mind hearing how you arrived at that.



You have a point here, and was probably the main problem with S5. But quit sounding like a broken record already. Everyone who criticises S5 says the same thing. It doesn't need to be said anymore.


Omar out looking for revenge. Yeah, that didn't happen in season 1 at all did it.

lol I just replied to a Montana post about the Wire

Yes, the return of Clark Johnson to TV! (hope you know who he is)

Greggs was always good po-lice so I wasn't really suprised that she did what she did at all. Mcnulty just deviated into his old lifestyle again, was basically the same as he was in season 3. And Omar out for revenge isn't the same Omar as before.......please. You have not mentioned the newspaper arc at all either which is, and David Simon has clarified this, what the 5th season was all about. The Main story was the fact that all this crazy shit was going on and the newspaper had no idea and never reported on any of it.

I found the Baltimore Sun storyline to be the bad thing in season 5. And I found it very bad. It was all white hats vs. black hats with none of the character nuance I had come to expect. Felt like nothing but David Simon working out a grudge against his former employers. The two top guys at the sun may as well have spent all their time twirling curly mustaches and chuckling. It was deeply unrealistic that those two would continue to stand by the villian journalist to the point of letting him get a prize with all the evidence and witnesses set up against him. Realistically, if they did that the editor making the accusations could take his evidence to any number of reporters outside the paper. Or just tip off a couple bloggers. With that much evidence there is simply no reason for him to be that impotent. And no newspaper bigwigs would be foolish enough to think they could keep it under wraps forever with the cold facts looking them square in the face.

(w/British accent) "Spot on!"

Where Season five went wrong was creating too many clear cut bad guy/good guy characters. The antithesis of his previous seasons which painted everyone with good and bad characteristics.

it also failed at just trying to be good enough to squeak by as better than CSI or law and order and didn't really care about creating anything of substance unlike the previous seasons.

Just started season 1 via netflix.

Yeah, I'm way late to this having only followed the series during the final season.

Goddamn. What a tragic way to experience The Wire.

Seriously. There are so many throw backs to previous events, seasons, etc. that I don't know how you could enjoy the Wire unless its in the correct order.

Yeah that's horrible

I became hooked on The Wire this summer. I'm three seasons in, and it might be my favorite show ever. Or at least top 3. Such an intricate show.

I may want to rewatch the first three seasons before moving on just to experience the character arch of Stringer Bell again. What a nasty critique of the american dream.

The final scene of Stringer Bell and Avon talking is one of the most perfect scenes ever put to film. The gravity and dynamics of it honestly remind me of Shakespeare.

That scene was quite powerful. I didn't think it could get better after their confrontation over D'angelo's murder, but that second to last episode proved me very wrong.

That really was fucking great, plus the scene where Stringer admits to having D killed was brilliant also.

Totally agreed. My favorite scene in the entire series.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have watched the final season without having caught up on the previous four.

I just finished the first season - what an incredible series this is.

Heroin supply clinic 'cuts crime'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8255418.stm

season 5 was still great. maybe not on the level of the others, but still great

Spoiler/NSFW: click to show/hide

-kima squealing on mcnulty was square peg -> round hole if you ask me. i mean, the guy voluntarily told her TO HELP HER OUT. because he respected her as a colleague and a friend. had she found out on her own, then maybe. but even then it would've been a bit off-putting

-i had no problem with the way omar got taken down even though i hated that little shithead kid who did the deed as much as anyone. i'd take issue instead with the way that he cheated death in the earlier episode

the kids in the story...chris becomes the next generation omar while dukie becomes bubbles. nicely played. might've worked better though had dukie gotten the new lease on life rather than naymon. emotionally for me anyway!

i guess the inplausibility of the whole season 5 storyline flies in the face of the realism of the series, but honestly my biggest quibble with the season was that it was shortened!

Re; point 2 and cheating death.

Spoiler/NSFW: click to show/hide

http://dethroner.com/2008/03/17/the-wires-david-simon-on-omars-spider-man-jump/

Point 1, we know what kind of cop Greggs is, she wouldn't finger the guys who shot her lying on her hospital bed.

I'm nearing the end of season two, and despite a fair bit of corniness in the portrait of the white working class, the show remains more compelling than any other television series I've ever seen.

We're rooting hard for Ziggy Sabotka to get dismembered or fatally beaten. Things are just starting to get really interesting between Stringer and Avon.

Season 2 was corny as fuck.

Gotta be honest.

wrong

Brother fucking Mouzone isn't corny?

The various stereotypes on the docks weren't corny?

Spiros and the Greek weren't corny?

Hey, I like the show, but give me a break here.

No, you're wrong.

No you're wrong!

So much of that season is undeniably corny.

brother muzone is hilarious and gets a pass for that alone, but i can see your point.

nicky, frank, and the other stevedores = not corny

spiros + the greek = not corny



seriously man, season two is one of the better wire seasons.

Have you ever worked blue-collar, or do you have blue-collar in your family?

I have, and do. And I think the blue-collar in general are just like those guys, except maybe a little more racist.

You don't think so? Go work a construction job for a few months and come back-- then tell me I'm wrong.

SInce I'm married to a Greek, I won't waste time trying to explain Greek culture to you. It ain't as easy to understand.

I do work a blue collar job and I completely agree, although the rascism at my place of work is probably as bad if not worse than that protrayed in The Wire.

Nothing about The Wire is corny.

What exactly is corny then? You can't just say it's and leave it there.

I worked for an excavation company throughout college and at a grain processing facility prior to that. My Dad is a butcher. I'm comfortable with my perspective. I have experience with corn.

The Stevedores of Season 2 are a flannel-entombed stereotype that was tired and out dated decades ago. Not only are the Stevedores themselves underdeveloped stereotypes, but the bar that the show tries so hard to portray as the nerve center of the union is a cornball charicature, where cornball phony roots rock is played, where drinks are served by a cartoon character in a mumu and where deez union guys engage in wacky cornball antics. You can tell more love and effort went into the creation of season 1's footsoldiers.

And I fail to see how an explanation of Greek culture is going to help me gain a greater appreciation of Season 2, considering the season does not aim to provide a glimpse into the life of Greek immigrants in America. The Greek isn't even Greek.

Then could you tell me what language he is speaking? (Because I know. If you mean that the actor isn't Greek, that wouldn't surprise me. Actors tend to "act".)

You said, "Spiros and the Greek weren't corny?"

So, could you share your definition of "corny" for the rest of the class?

Because I think you mean that the portrayals aren't realistic, and well, I'll always go to bat for Dave Simon when it comes to authenticity.

The band at the bar is a blues band, which in a city as black as Baltimore, I kinda think is authentic.

"Flannel-entombed stereotype"? I appreciate your creativity, but what kind of lah-de-dahs did you work with in construction? If they weren't wearing flannel, and smoking, and drinking at the local bar after work, then I'm not sure if you and I are located in the same state.

"Tired and outdated"? - Dude-- the blue-collar, is by its nature, tired and outdated. They wear second-hand, cheaper clothes because they don't have to put on airs, and because they don't need to be concerned with aesthetics.

Maybe Simon and his crew have done more research on drug dealers than stevedores, but I think they did a little more research than you give them credit for. There is a shitload of jargon in those first few episodes that took me a while to understand, because well, I've never worked the docks or belonged to a union. But, of course you immediately grasped the whole "dredge" conversation that Sabotka was having, and of course you also instantly understood what it meant to his union, etc. Sorry, I guess I lack your world experience.

And caricature doesn't have an "h" in it, college boy.

Despite speaking Greek and Turkish in various episodes, 'The Greek' stresses at one point he isn't even Greek.

Spiros is Greek though.

The Greek says he isn't Greek. That's good enough for me.

You can always defer to David Simon if you'd like, but forgive me if I don't expect every immigrant to be attired in shit that would look more appropriate in late 70s Philly.

If Blues Hammer is supposed to be a nod to the city's black musical heritage, maybe the fake musicians should have been black, instead of caricatures* of the white blues circuit archetype, complete with lame tattoos and biker shit?

Season 2's new characters were shallow and uninteresting, with the exception of Frank and Beadie.

And it fucking blew me away that they actually tried to turn Zigg into a sympathetic character over the course of the last three episodes. One of the worst characters ever on any great series.

Despite having an understanding of their plight, it's almost impossible to have sympathy for the union guys with such limited character development. It's just the opposite for the underlings of season 1. They tried to cover too much ground on this season, to the overall detriment of the story.