And is anyone really surprised by that rating? Pitchfork have been dropping hints for months about how excited they were about this album.

Plus since they're responsible for the leak, they owe Drag City a good review to help move some mothafuckin units.

oh shit, almost forgot about that. good call..

honestly, i was half-expecting a 10.0 from pfork.

It made #41 in the UK last week, higher then The Long Blondes at #44. Obviously being on off the top 40 it's top of the 6 Music Chart

yeah, because we gave luomo and the blow each a 9.4, too. (I still think that-- assuming this is what happened-- the person who stole from us and posted the albums onto the internet is reponsible for the leak...)

The acclaim's pretty much univeral.

I like the album, her voice is more controlled, and not anywhere near the distraction it was on Milk Eyed Mender.

i'm with you... but the album won't be in my top 10

doesn't have a ton of replay value for me. i've already kinda gotten tired of it. i'm sure i'll pull it out occasionally, but that's bout it. at least i can listen to her now though.




i didn't say it was why, just he brings up an interesting point is all.

as for blaming the "leak" on the person who "found" their stash, that's ridiculous.

"i'm sorry officer, it wasn't my crack, i was holding it for someone else, you just happened to find it before i could get rid of it"

might as well just put the blame on Drag City for getting you the record so early too

It's not really an interesting point unless you plan to suggest that we'd offer ratings and reviews as favors. You all are floating the idea that we're being dishonest with our readers and ourselves, so I think I pretty clearly should be offended and allowed to dismiss that nonsense.

Your analogy doesn't hold water. It's not even fucking close, frankly. It wasn't illegal for us to posses a Joanna Newsom LP. It was given to us. By Drag City. We weren't trying to get rid of it. We weren't in the wrong-- and we certainly didn't do anything illegal! If anything, and again we're still not 100% sure what happened, if our internal, private files became unprotected through some computer error or human carelessness, they were still stolen. If you leave your car or home unlocked and someone enters it and takes possessions that you own, you've still been robbed, even if you left yourself open to the possibility that would happen. I know it's fashionable in indie circles to hate on P4k for, I dunno what, being the U.S.'s biggest advocate for independent music, I guess, but this was still, in legal terms, basic burglary-- even if it pathetically pleases you that it happened.

edit: sorry to get up on my hind legs so much, solace-- you seem like a good guy-- but the accusations inherent in this dicussion of our rating aim to undermine every little thing we do, and yeah they do piss me off.

Whoa, my suggestion that p4k gave a favorable review as a favor was completely playfull. I don't think anyone here, or anywhere else, believes that p4k would do that. Apologies to Scott and the rest of the staff if what I said was offensive.

And Solace, how come you've cooled off so much? You were all about this when you first heard it. It'll certanly be in my top 10.

Wolfgang, i was just shocked that i could actually stomach it compared to MEM, which i found to be one of the most annoying records in recent years, but i don't think it was ever one of my favorite records this year by any means.

it may end up top 20-25, which considering before this year if you'd said that i'd even remotely enjoy an album by Joanna Newsom, i'd probably barf at your feet.

and Scott, like Wolfgang, i was just taking the piss as well. have you seen the blog posts on a few sites about your review of the latest Hold Steady being "bought" too? it's even more absurd.

as for the leak situation, regardless, someone on your guys end fucked up. if that didn't happen, the album wouldn't have leaked as soon as it did, end of story. (i didn't mind, mind you ). i'd disagree though that you "didn't do anything wrong". putting a pre-release record up on a public webserver with no DRM or no password protection (even if you did have it password protected before), isn't the smartest thing to do in my experience, that's all. there's a lot better and more secure ways to share the album w/ your colleagues than putting them up on a public web/fileserver.

as for the argument that they were "stolen", if you put up files unprotected on the net and someone "finds them", good luck proving that they were "stolen" in a court of law (i work for the 4th largest ISP in the country and have done plenty of IP security work), your case would be thrown out right away due to neglegance

Can someone explain to me, and i'm trying to be open minded here, what makes this album particularly great or sets it apart from the flock of 'freak folk' that these sites/critics have been all over, or perhaps explain what the context is (w/ an explanation of 'freak folk' and why its a BIG DEAL) so that I can at least understand what people are getting out of this? Is it basically just a DIY lo-fi folk thing? Why isn't everyone else annoyed by the chirpy cadence of her voice?

That pfork review seemed to be preaching to the converted; it didn't make a case for her in the context of pop music, but in the context of People Already Down 4 Lyfe with the nu-folk thing (it seemed to me anyway).

I mean, I guess I want to understand what makes this so great.

prior to this record, i most certainly was... and even still am sometimes, just not as much as before...

her voice is definitely the biggest hurdle that seperates the folks that thing she's amazing and those who think she's the most annoying thing around.

i'm somewhere in between.

I mean, I'm a Dylan fan, i don't think someone has to be mariah or something. But her warble (on the record I heard my roomate play, which is the one before this i think) is just irritating and the music doesn't make up for it - if she's going to play chirpy and thin, she's got to have something to take up the space and a spare harpsichord melody isn't helping.

like i said dude, preachin' to the choir on that point

i just find it a lot easier to take now that her voice only cracks a few times over the course of the 55 minutes, vs. every other line on MEM. have you heard the first record? if not, maybe hearing that one will make you appreciate this new one more like it did for me.

tagline--
Ys: it sucks less than milk eyed mender!

nah, you take away the vocals and i still enjoy the arrangements quite a bit. the lyrics i can take or leave as well.

we pretty much agree there. I enjoy the instrumentation and production, but can't get past
her cackling, warbling, etc. I've given it plenty of chances but always end up bored and
frustrated by the end result. I'm going to give it a spin or two before I make my 2006 list,
but if I don't get anything else out of it I'm leaving it off.

OK but i still need context! Is the appeal of this 'stuff' (speaking generally now, not just this album specifically) basically a blending of lo-fi diy 'populist' anyone-can-do-it-but-we're-outcasts-so-we-do-it-without-smoothing-the-edges indie and general attraction to the old folk aesthetic ('honest expression,' lyrics that tell 'stories' and speak to personal experience, using raw voice and un-pretty instrumental as a signifier for raw uncut REALNESS etc.)?

people who don't like her would answer yes to this question, others that like her would say no.

Well I would like to hear those people's arguments! Its also not (just) a yes or no q.

You'd think sacrificing my work hours to get people on this board to talk about why they like Joanna Newsom would be less like pulling teeth.

they're too busy masturbating to her cleavage

what i like most about the record, and that i've stated before, is that it reminds me of the soundtrack to a movie. an old Disney cartoon maybe...

i think people really get off on the childish nature of her music, lyrics, & voice


or lake thereof

i have tix to see her w/ Callahan in 3 weeks... that will be the true test for me

You can fluff your pillow and sleep tight knowing they all still read it religiously.

"Again," I think you mean to say.

This album is so fucking far from DIY, it's not even funny.

Full orchestra on four out of five tracks, mixed at Abbey Road, produced by Jim O'Rourke, and co-written by Van Dyke Parks...that sounds pretty pedigreed.

The reason I love the album is that Ms. Newsom is an incredible song-writer and a damned good lyricist, and this is a collection of great songs that touch me unlike any other music out right now.

If you want to keep guessing about "motivations", go ahead, but if you don't like it, you just don't. Nobody needs a reason to love it.

sorry guys - I got oversensitive and didn't take it as a joke.

and, yeah, no doubt we're red-faced and somewhere, someone was careless. (it is a private forum 99% of the time, ideally 100%) No doubt about that. The way people talk about it - we leaked it - makes it seem intentional, which would never, ever be the case. Thank god the record was good!

sorry again guys



haha, I think we all know the first time was human carelessness, and who that human was. That was, uh, yeah, like my first month on the job fulltime. "wait, your server isn't password-protected??!"

good timing, too. ryan and I were on a plane to cmj; second time, five of us went out for dinner then drinks talking about the 06 fest, lessons learned, ideas for 07, etc.-- three cheers for cell phones and the free wireless at the ten cat. folder was open for 20 minutes only when it could have been all night.

my roommate gets drunk and watches TVland while surfing for gay porn and eating loudly while constantly complaining about his life. even his cat is annoying

consider yourself lucky

i have plenty more to complain about too!

Sorry, allow me to rephrase.

It seems like you're searching for a cultural reason that people/critics are reacting so positively to an album that could just as easily gotten across the board pannings. When you ask for an explanation, you're not asking why I like her, you're asking why so many people like her. So, the explanation you're searching for may not exist, because there isn't exactly a coordinated effort to hype this album.

Does this make any sense?

Nah I see what you're saying, I think you're misreading me. I'm not looking for someone to explain the mass psychoanalytical reasons for enjoying it, i'm looking for a fan's description of why THEY like it, considering the context that folk music isn't exactly lighting up the airwaves right now. I mean most of its ardent supporters, including the pfork reviewer, review it in the context that certain things are ASSUMED to be true - that this stands out in ways x, y, z when compared to similar albums. I'm asking where this album exists w/r/t the rest of music. I'm asking what the genre and album is doing that helps its adherents so happy about this particular incarnation.

I'm not asking someone to explain why other people like it - just to explain why they like it so much CONSIDERING the context of The State Of Music Today and not just the state of nu-folk.

This is pleasant enough but I'm really questioning what the fuck she's on about.

in other words, put "This is a good album" in perspective for me.

I still haven't gotten over the one song of hers I've heard, it was horrible. And I like freak-folk, for the most part.

I think she's talking about a monkey marrying a bear now but I'm not sure.

WTF?

well if you guys ever need any Systems Admin work...

I'm sitting here trying to think about why I like this album so much. I dabble in the nu-folk sceen (Devendra, Vetiver, et al) and I love MEM and Ys. But I've been obsessed with electronic music for the past year or so (with a few exceptions, obvs), so maybe it's that this is something completely different than what I'm into. But there are plenty of other artists out there "doing things that no one else is doing" that I just can't stand. So to use that as a reason for me liking this album is pretty much crap.

And I didn't really start loving her music untill I saw her live a couple years ago. Could it be her skillfull musicianship and commanding stage pressence(and it is commanding, I've never been to a show where the audiance was as quiet and attentfull)? Doubtfull, as a good melody and some well crafted wordplay, for me, trump your chops on your respective instrument. And I do think Joanna creates both great melodies and facinating lyrics, I still don't think that's her draw for me.

Ultimately, I think it's the little nuances that I love. Like the layered vocal parts in "Peach, Plum, Pear" or her high pitched (but not cracked--mind you) voice around 6:00 in "Only Skin". But just like almost every review I've read has said, some people wont like this, and I honestly can't blame them. All I know is I like this, a lot.

Yeah, that was nice musically and I dig her voice but lyrically it was all a bit "Let's see how many bullshit children's bedtimes stories that don't make any sense I can string together and have people still talk about how deep and meaningful I am"

Gal has one hell of a vocabulary, though.

I think what this album does is gives joanna a full-orchestra sound and smooths her vocals. her vocals are unique (some say they are shrill, some say they are cute, some just like them, some just dont. I do) but it really comes down to the songs. take the first song for instance, Emily. it starts so calmly but takes you through a whirlwind. the tempo speeds up, slows down, and basically keeps you guessing but with each change in tempo, the music slowly changes. it really feels like all 12 minutes of the songs are unique. the lyrics (again some can take them, some can leave them) are very catching. there are parts of the song that feel like a chorus, parts to sing along to but really, they seem to automatically become stuck in your (MY) head, they arent repeated or treated like a chorus.

another key point that I kinda started with is the instrumentation. who plays a harp? honestly not many people so it is a new sound but it is soft and accesable the way joanna plays it. it has a guitar-ness to it, plucking away it just sounds so pretty. the orchestration added into parts makes it sound epic. it sounds classic. it doesn't sound indie, it doesnt sound folk, it doesnt sound rock, it sounds like it's self and I think that is one reason it is being respected so highly. the arangements are beautiful, catchy, and the most amazing ones are used sparingly, enough for you to anticipate them but still appreciate the build up.

every time I listen, I have a new favorite song. cosmia righ tnow

-to deej.


and I like freak folk but I tend to gravitate more towards the sung tongs, tripped out freak folk more. At The Hop is a really really good song though.

It seems like what you're talking about is a sort of hyper-literacy in her music. And even if you're not, that's what I'm gonna' respond to. This threw me off with The Decemberists: I found Picaresque so overbearing because of Colin Meloy's need to wear his vocabulary on his sleeve. (The Crane Wife, as far as I'm concerned, is a step in the right direction.) And Joanna Newsom is worse to some extent: her employed vocabulary is clearly larger than Meloy's. Yet, and I can understand how some would differ here, I don't find her lyrics overbearing in any way whatsoever. In fact, I find them enchanting. Everything flows, to be vague. Her words are specific, vs. Meloy's words, which seem simply overwrought and poorly chosen in contrast. When listening to Newsom's music, I get the feeling that she is saying - exactly & specifically - what she wants to say. I'm not saying she's deep and meaningful; I'm only saying that her level of specificity is admirable. She manages to sound smart without condescending, which - for any of you that have been through a good college education - deserves a medal of some sort.

i'm starting to think that this thread should be subtitled "bigger, bloated, better than Michigan"

i was about to say, cinnamon's post sounds a lot like what people said about that album.

So picked this up today, and while i downloaded the leak, just owning it makes me love it a lot more, this may crack my top five. such a great package of an album.

Literacy is about being coherent as much as it's about using fancy words. Hell, half the time I'm not even sure Meloy is using the words correctly. As affected as Newsom's vocabulary is, I can't really imagine her singing lyrics like, say, Eddie Argos'.

It's kind of funny, given the glee with which Pitchfork tears into some albums, how sensitive they've been to criticism in this thread.

and people loved the hell out of that one too. I like this one more because it all feels part of the same. illinoise was a rock song, ambient experiment, slow mo creeper but this album seems like it is one big album, not a bunch of great songs.

it seems the world (music critics) are afraid to actually say anything bad about this album.

Personally I hate it

now if you liked it they wouldn't be "afraid".

Rolling Stone 2 Stars.
Hard to stomach. [19 Oct 2006, p.134]

hot! sometimes RS is right.