Ironweed, by William Kennedy. I'm not really digging this so far. Any fans of the book that can praise it effusively and get me excited about finishing it?

Love it love it love it. Another sweet book that got fucked in the ass by Hollywood.

When my son was little I put a big gold bell into his xmas stocking, and he was so excited, and happy that I could still hear it ring. Then Tuesday night after the AC/DC concert, we walked by a bunch of drunk guys shouting "Oi! Oi! Oi!" in the parking lot and I reminded him that "TNT" was the first AC/DC song he had liked as a wee lad, precisely because of that chorus of "Oi!"s. It was somehow like The Polar Express all over again.

Where do I even begin? William Kennedy's Albany Cycle of novels, of which this was the big prizewinner, are among my favorites written in the Engish language (although I dunno why I say that - it isn't as if I read other languages.) Maybe I liked it so much b/c I was listening to tons of Old Radio broadcasts at the time, so I was hearing the same sort of music and entertainment the Phelan Family would have been listening to, but that's pretty superficial. Maybe it's having Irish roots and being fascinated by any of these sorts of Irish-families-in-America historical fiction. Maybe it's a love of historical fiction and seeing Albany, NY as it must once have been, and realizing that, in some ways, something vital died in America after the 1950s.

I think, though, that the appeal of Ironweed, for me, was that Francis Phelan has been on the run from himself for most of his life, tormented by an act which no one else blames him for which he has allowed to become the defining, ruinous memory of his life. I don't think it matters what happened to us, the readers, to give us the sense of identitification with a character - I surely never did even a handful of the things Francis Phelan can claim credit for. But I understand being haunted, and being convinced of having no worth at all, and of seeking redemption even though you don't really believe yourself worthy even when it comes.

And maybe it's just Kennedy's prose. I was completely drawn into Kennedy's Albany, and mostly by the writing. Kennedy's Albany is a real, living place; his characters are instantly identifiable, (at least to me); vivid and heartbreaking and tragically human. Few novels move me to anger, to tears and to laugh-out-loud hilarity. Few novels provoke even one strong emotion from me, let alone the multiple responses Kennedy elicited. I see why Ironweed won a prize or two, touching as it does on condemnation and forgiveness - the "Big Themes" - but the entire run of novels is really an achievement.

Thanks, brain_storm. That's exactly what I needed.

Bought both of these today.

I need to start reading Bukowski. The Tom Waits of novels? Eh?

Anyways, I started reading "Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas" by you know who.

I really like it so far.

At first, I thought these have nothing in common apart from being short-story collections. But King, at his best, is really as much a regionalist as Brown was. Alas, King decided to stop writing about his native, beloved Western Maine in favor of Florida, and his work since finishing the overlong, bloated Dark Tower series has been treading water off whatever private beach he now enjoys. I mean, aging fascinates me, too, but do I need a story of a man who makes great art inspired by his cholestorol reading?

Larry Brown died four years ago on my birthday, before I had ever thought of moving to his hometown. Now that I live here, I have to say that the poor and working stiff protagonists he wrote of with such clarity and heartbreaking honesty may be even more of a latter-day Southern Gothic horrorshow than he let on. This guy has influenced my writing, strictly in terms of style and what you can do with prose, more than Hemingway, Updike and Hunter Thompson combined. Hard drinking, hard living, hard fucking men and women whose constant companions are foolishness, vanity, rage and their own, self-created misery. A guy goes out looking for revenge on the man who flashed his wife and becomes, before us, a haunted wreck, more psychopathic and frightening than the lunatic he hunts. And Brown shows us that this has always been the case - that our inner demons are always worse than the external monsters we fear and loathe so much.

worst typography ever.

Deeply insightful comment. Thanks for bothering.

how is brain_storm like that typography?

they are both hazy, and they both give me a headache.

My dad bought this for me today, said he does some wild things. Because of his recent passing, it felt like good timing. Hell of a writer.

Oh, well let me be clear: A comment on the typography is meaningless and pointless and need never be made. The typography on King's books changes with the prinitng, as it does on many, if not most, books. If you wish to discuss King's body of work, or his regionalism, or Larry Brown, or how authors impact our lives, or anything that, you know, means something, or is about something, then by all means have at it, but I will be goddamned if I endure people insulting me for being vapid and insincere and posting too often when the best they can do is make a stupid, meaningless comment on a book cover's typography.

You're a fat, middle aged bore, Theremin. Your business failed; your musical tastes are obscurantist and boring; and your wife would rather eat dirt than think about fucking you. It amazes me that I have to endure the shit I do around here when the venerated regulars are as pointless and idiotic as you.

I suppose I could have just said, "that cover is ugly". Is that fucking allowed? sorry for being specific about reasons for disliking something.



I actually still have over 10 years to go before I'm middle aged. My business (selling cds) is still running, however, I am no longer paying $3700 a month in rent, this is true. Given that I was the last music store in a county of 750,000 (including all of the corporate stores and a chain of used stores). My musical tastes are awesome and interesting, suck a dick. Luckily, with the ground freezing, dirt is hard to get at, so my wife is having sex with me right now.

I'd turn this around and talk about what a fuck up you are, but there's like 1,000,000 posts on that already. Feel free to use the search function above and randomly attach my name to one of the insults already thrown at you on this board, you piece of shit.

On the shitter

Elsewhere:

you're free to like or dislike anything you want to, theremin, but I really don't care about your opinion of the cover - we talk about what's inside the covers in this thread. I do, anyway, when not making ad hominem attacks.

As per usual, I feel bad about dragging that kind of dramatic BS into this thread. I start or get myself into fights in most every thread, but I really try to limit it in this and NOW PLAYING - The Movie Ed. There's no controlling the actions and thoughts of others - and I would be bored if there were - but I just don't get it: We talk about reading in this thread, and I post about a couple things I'm readingand try to make it interesting and about something, and what I get back is a comment on fucking cover typography. It is funny, however, that you'd make an idiotic comment that has nothing to do with anything and then call me a piece of shit.

So you aren't middle aged and you still sell records online. How really super-spiffy for you. You're also trivial and almost go out of your way to be all the things I hate most about this board: Unhelpful, antisocial, snobby, judgemental without discernible cause. You've been monumentally unpleasant with me on virtually every occasion we've had to converse, and never once have you or anyone offered a shred of compelling evidence that there's a reason for you to ride so high. So yeah, I called you a bunch of names, and you know what?

You deserved it.

Have something interesting to say - go for it. Otherwise I wish you'd shut the hell up.

theremin vs brain storm ahahah

brain storm why are you acting like theremin is your personal acquaintance and not just anonymous words

________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________ why are you in a thread about reading? That seems like a much more valid question than why I board the way I do.

brain storm behind those grey eyes i see a very sad man

Seriously. You get into some fucking fight with someone in every thread about fucking EVERYTHING. I seriously can't take anything you say seriously, and I can't take anything you say personally.

I don't know exactly what your deal is. I haven't read the book, but I certainly feel like I can still comment that the cover sucks.

Are you just taking things personally? I didn't even notice it was you that posted the book. I had seen the book in the stores, and hated the cover. I just mentioned it when I saw it here. I didn't look at who posted it.

Or did you design the cover yourself? Is that the problem?

Anyway, it's nice to see you can take things personal, and then go all batshit crazy in a personal fashion.

It's funny you would call me antisocial, when I have socialized with several people off board, and all I've ever seen you do is fight with people.

Jeez...why am I bothering. I already know you're fucking crazy. Everyone knows it.

BrainStorm's guesswork internet bashing was pretty well put together, though. I'll admit that.

Also, is the fucking ex-homeless, ex-addict, having lady troubles guy really giving me shit over my career choices? I created one of the largest cd stores in the state. The 2nd largest movie rental store in the state. I founded the 2nd biggest film festival in Illinois. Seriously, what the fuck have you done?

Also, I'd love for you to examine all my posts and find some that are "Unhelpful, antisocial, snobby, judgemental without discernible cause." Seriously.

theremin leave the board before you cut yourself over it

No way. I'd cut him way way before I cut myself.

See, this is how I know you suck exactly the way I think: You're taking this seriously, even as you say you're not. I don't matter and "everyone knows" I'm crazy, but you think it matters when the crazy man accuses you of being a fat failure. Now who but a guy who gets up every morning and thinks "I'm a fat failure" gives a flying fuck what someone like me thinks?

The other way I know you suck, btw, is that you need to try and stigmatize me with the labels I put on myself. This is what guys who think they're getting beat, and beat badly, do. It's like when I wish for people to kill themselves - it's attempted sadism. But only attempted.

I gave up on myself, theremin, and a long time ago. Your belligerent "What the fuck have you ever done?" sounds like a guy who basically hates himself and thinks of himself as a failure flailing at the gnat who reminded him of it.

The problem is, none of this has anything to do with anything. Book covers always suck, theremin, and that's why I reacted. A book cover is a static image trying to encapsulate the moving and living world inside it, or at the least to hook us, the potential readers, into taking the book home. If you haven't read the book, then you have no reason to say anything, as commentary on the goddamn cover is almost as meaningless as the thing, itself.

I grant that I overreacted, and badly. But I can't see much reason to feel bad: You've gone on about this like a whiny little bitch a hell of a lot longer than even I think it's worth. You clearly think my opinion is a lot more important than I do.

No you wouldn't: You're a self-hating pussy.

maybe it's just because I recently read this:

http://nytimesbooks.blogspot.com/2008/11/m...es-of-2008.html

And I know that there ARE good book covers out there.


Maybe it's because I've learned a lot about typography and design this year that I chose to comment that I thought that was a horrible cover.

Regardless, someone should be able to comment, in a thread about books, about a book cover, just as many many people comment on album covers when things are posted, without having to listen to another bullshit brainstorms attacks people tirades that clutter up so many other threads.


I believe I started to say, but didn't that my time spent here is almost exclusively on contant. I like discussion on music and film. Occasionally I have dipped my toe into the political waters, and I like humor, so I might tell some jokes once in a while. I really don't pay attention to any of this other bullshit, but I know that you've posted shit like what I said, and I don't feel like you really are in any position to be commenting on my life.

Never read that one - any good?

Probably not, but why are you allowed to comment on mine? Because you're such a huge success? Ok. I really want to be done with this. Can you just assure yourself you're not a fat failure and move on?

I commented on yours (in vague terms, because I'm not up on your life) only because you commented on mine. While I'd love to end this argument, I'd love it even more if you quit doing this all the time to other people.

Not a very challenging read. Rather straight forward.

Let's try this again:

Huh? Are you being literal or metaphorical because it sounds like you are talking about Duma Key there (which I thought was his best non-Dark Tower work since Bag Of Bones). What about the rest of the book?

There's a story in this book called "Stationary Bike" concerning a commercial artist who creates the Great Work of his life, inspired by his cholestorol warning. I am only halfway through: So far, none of the stories has especially grabbed me. In King's best short work, setting is as important as character or plot - the Maine and New England of King's life almost become characters, themselves. In his newer short stuff, much of it set in Florida and NYC, the place is just a backdrop- places he has been enough times to describe accurately, without contributing any kind of coloration to the narrative. Everything about the book thus far, right down to the Introduction, reeks of the derivative. Dark Tower was bloated and often silly, but he was invested in it: It was his whole literary universe. His newer work reads with all the depth and passion of a Dean "Writing by Numbers is Easier Than Working for a Living" Koontz paperback. I mean, jesus, there's another goddamn story about the price authors pay for creating pen names here. How many times has he written that?

His older short stuff is actually much like you describe...and some folks love that more than the more "literary" works.

I've read every King book, most of them more than twice, and I have no idea what you're talking about. The stories in Night Shift and Skeleton Crew are inextricably bound to their settings.

Stuff like "The Raft", "The Monkey" and "Survivor Type" are what I was thinking of here. Stuff like "Mrs. Todd's Shortcut" though...you are definitely OTM.

I really appreciated the descriptions of this and how you explained it to be "strange" and "beautifully written." I also really enjoy the title of the book. I used my InterLibraryLoan account and had this book sent to me. It came in today. I'm on page three right and I'm sure it will get out of hand quickly. Thought you would enjoy that. I'll probably attempt to finish this by this time tomorrow because I have two other books I need to read before I go home for Christmas Break. But yeah, thanks for the recommendation. I'll let you know what I think.

The other two books that came in today, that I will read soon after "Kangaroo Notebook", were "Already Dead" by Denis Johnson (I really, really, really love "Jesus' Son") and "Valis" by Philip K. Dick (as mentioned in here somewhere as well). I actually picked up Valis from the library a few years back and never got around to even opening it up. Hopefully I will this time.

Kangaroo Notebook kicks all sorts of ass.

I'm about 90 pages in. What's SOMB's opinion of Pynchon?

I'm about 55 pages into this and I like it so far,But I don't know that it's going to hold m interest for the duration.Still,it hasn't let me down yet.

I don't think I've ever read a better novel of pure allegory. I thought Rushdie was overrated until I picked this up.

Give it some time sir. This will blow you away eventually. There will be chapters that you will dread getting through (the chapter about echoes, mainly) but there will be times where you will fly through 100 pages in half an hour. It's a rollercoaster and you've only begun going up the first drop.



I agree. I've read a bunch of his other books (The Satanic Verses, Midnight's Children, Fury) but nothing comes even close. This is only book I have read of his with this style. From what I've heard, his most recent publication, The Enchantress of Florence, is similar in the fantastical sense. I'll have to check it out.

started both today, enjoying both immensely. the hemingway i'll finish by tomorrow probably, the carroll might take a while long. it reminded me to check out kissing the beehive, in any case. books which become wolf parade songs jump to the top of my list.

Gotta say, don't let the hype overinflate your expectations. I might've liked it more had I been able to separate it from the popular culture's kudos.

http://soundopinions.org/forum/index.php?s...&hl=pynchon

You'll know at what points where you can just skim the text when you get there. (oh boy, will you ever...)

Words of sufficient contempt do not exist in our language to quantify my loathing of this book. If it's a good story, you can write it like any other book - black words on a white page. If it's crap, you write it on fucking postage stamps and in shapes and backward and forward and every other gimmick deployed here. That's all House of Leaves is: A great big gimmick.

At lest you guys don't come all over yourselves for Harry the fuck Potter.