Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Now Reading...
Sound Opinions Message Board > Anything Goes > Et Cetera
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66
NumberTenOx
Ben, I had to read your short post twice to understand it.

I point this out not because I'm ideographically challenged (I am), but because even if there's a short, sweet, to-the-point criticism that outlines what a piece of noise that is The DaWinci Code, few are going to take the time to read that criticism.

Unless, of course, you publish it in this form:

IPB Image
without_opinion
started klosterman's "Fargo Rock City", cuz i've had it for a few months and haven't gotten to it.

as soon as i finish this it's onto Confederacy of Dunces.
Ben
I don't care if people read the Da Vinci Code. I don't understand it, but whatever. The point is that if you have not just the opportunity but the responsibility to thoughtfully examine and assess it, you deserve to be called out for shirking the task. Dan Brown makes claims about his book. They are the basis for much of its credibility and popularity. Those claims ought to be rigorously examined.
NumberTenOx
QUOTE(Ben @ May 26 2006, 08:39 AM) [snapback]96174[/snapback]

I don't care if people read the Da Vinci Code. But if you have not just the opportunity but the responsibility to thoughtfully examine and assess it, you deserve to be called out for shirking the task.

I read the review. It was passible. Not brilliant, but passible.

Why aren't you either:

1. Writing the New Yorker and telling them what a slack-jawed review this was? or
2. Write your own, and submit it.
Ben
June 9, 2003. The Today Show. Transcript from DanBrown.com
QUOTE
LAUER: Tell me more about that without giving anything away.

Mr. BROWN: Well, this is going to be tricky, but the most important
fact is that the holy Grail is not what people think it is. That is--
that is part of the theme of the book. The holy Grail is not a cup; it
is something far more powerful. And at the beginning of the book this
professor is so summoned to the Louvre to look at some symbols that are
found around the murdered curator. These symbols lead to the paintings
of Leonardo da Vinci, which in turn lead to a great historical secret.
And, of course, in the process, this professor becomes a hunted man.

LAUER: How much of this is based on reality in terms of things that
actually occurred? I know you did a lot of research for the book.

Mr. BROWN: Absolutely all of it. Obviously, there are--Robert Langdon
is fictional, but all of the art, architecture, secret rituals, secret
societies, all of that is historical fact.


LAUER: So what'd you do? You traveled the world, you know, running into
museums and--and...

Mr. BROWN: Essentially, yeah.

LAUER: ...interviewing a lot of historians.

Mr. BROWN: My--well, I'm very fortunate. I married an art historian
who, you know, with whom I travel, and we have a great time. We spend a
lot...

LAUER: Her name's Blythe, by the way. You dedicate the book to her.

Mr. BROWN: Yes.
This man deserves everything he gets.

QUOTE(NumberTenOx @ May 26 2006, 09:41 AM) [snapback]96176[/snapback]

QUOTE(Ben @ May 26 2006, 08:39 AM) [snapback]96174[/snapback]

I don't care if people read the Da Vinci Code. But if you have not just the opportunity but the responsibility to thoughtfully examine and assess it, you deserve to be called out for shirking the task.

I read the review. It was passible. Not brilliant, but passible.

Why aren't you either:

1. Writing the New Yorker and telling them what a slack-jawed review this was? or
2. Write your own, and submit it.
Well, backpedeling a little, it's not really Anthony Lane's responsibility. He's writing about movies not books. And he didn't swallow the swill like far too many have already. Both he and Denby (V for Vendetta recently) are willing to call bullshit when they see it in film. This Da Vinci monster isn't really their problem.
NumberTenOx
If you wrote something like this:

QUOTE

Dear Mr. Lane:

Regarding your recent review of The Da Vinci Code:

tongue.gif

Love always,

Ben Welsh

P.S. Could you please give me Tina Brown's phone number? She left a pair of slingbacks at my apartment last weekend.



That's all there is to it.
Ben
Haha. Very nice. He is totally a Tina Brown hire, isn't he? I forget things like that. What William Shawn people are left? McPhee? Updike?
NumberTenOx
QUOTE(Ben @ May 26 2006, 09:01 AM) [snapback]96202[/snapback]

Haha. Very nice. He is totally a Tina Brown hire, isn't he? I forget things like that. What William Shawn people are left? McPhee? Updike?

Sorry, it was kind of a cheap shot. I haven't a clue who's who in the stable-- I don't keep track of that kind of stuff. The only reason I know Tina Brown's name is because of the James Atlas' recent book My Life In The Middle Ages: A Survivor's Tale.
Tony
QUOTE(Ben @ May 26 2006, 07:44 AM) [snapback]96140[/snapback]

TONY'S DUALITY OF CRITICISM: STYLE/CONTENT

Quit playing. You drop 25 cent words like "post-modern" more than anybody on this board. You can't honestly think criticism is just one and the other.

Although I will concede that Anthony Lane's rip on The Da Vinci Code in the newest NYer is weak sauce. He trots through his usual joke routine and, while I had exactly the same reaction to Brown's shoddy craftsmanship as he did, the article isn't much as far as attack screeds go. The real winner is going to pair a more precise and thorough attack on Brown's weak chops with a factual debunking of his so-called research. If anything about that book deserves to be deflated it is the idea, encouraged at every turn by Mr. Brown, his publisher and Sony, that this book is fiction based on rigorously researched fact. It must be destroyed. It is patently false. It is fantastical fiction based on fantastical pseudo-research.

But, like a presidential election, the runup to the Iraq War, and too many other things, PR will pillage and rape its way through the media machine and conquer all opposition. George Bush = regular guy. Saddam = 911. The Da Vinci Code = The Great American Novel. It's too bad that silly judge had to waste everyone's time with his silly code inside his Da Vinci opinion instead of providing the steady authoritative assessment this book deserves. I think the supposed snobs deserve some crap too. In their fear of running afoul of the masses and being caught with their noses in the air, places like the Tribune book page named Da Vinci Code one of the best novels of that year. If it hadn't been so popular, I'd bet they never would have considered it.


This argument gotten a bit reductive at this point yes. But rather then argue further I'd like to point you to one of my all time favorite film reviews

Ben
Boooooooring.
Tony
Dude it was perfect and echoed my feelings about that film to a tee.
Demon_Cleaner
IPB Image

Someone lent me this. Very readable but not very impressive.
BobtheSquid
IPB Image
crease
QUOTE(BobtheSquid @ May 30 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]97790[/snapback]

IPB Image

Aaaaand? What say you?

I devoured 'Blackhawk Down'. Bowden has a very self effacing, unobtrusive style. So, I was looking forward to this one.
NumberTenOx
IPB Image

Engrossing read. Very sad. It's not as though a book that chronicles all of the missteps in the run up to the Iraq invasion and the mismanagement after the invasion would make for a giggly story, but the sheer amount of hubris is simply staggering. Based on activities of the policy makers we have now (and will continue to have as long as there's one neocon left alive) who are chronicled in this book, and the fact that Bush is about 60% done with his last term in office, the inmates have and will continue to gain more and more control of the asylum.
BobtheSquid
QUOTE(crease @ May 30 2006, 10:38 AM) [snapback]97816[/snapback]

QUOTE(BobtheSquid @ May 30 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]97790[/snapback]

IPB Image

Aaaaand? What say you?

I devoured 'Blackhawk Down'. Bowden has a very self effacing, unobtrusive style. So, I was looking forward to this one.


I'm about 1/3 of the way through. Extremely good, but not as gripping as "Black Hawk Down," which Bowden was able to re-create, almost minute-by-minute, thanks to his incredible access to military records of that battle.

This one's not quite as you-are-there, but still fascinating.
boobs
HARLEM WORLD
IPB Image
Demon_Cleaner
IPB Image
WesterMats
Just started this -- not well written, but interesting topic:

IPB Image
Ben
What's turning you on about it?
without_opinion
does it explain how jesus invented the dinner table, as exhibited in Passion of the Christ?
WesterMats
QUOTE(kmac @ Jun 1 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]99729[/snapback]

does it explain how jesus invented the dinner table, as exhibited in Passion of the Christ?

No, which pisses me off. It just uses writings from ancient writers to support the idea that Christ didn't die on the cross and did get married and procreate.
Ben
"ancient writers?"
WesterMats
QUOTE(Ben @ Jun 1 2006, 07:09 PM) [snapback]100423[/snapback]

"ancient writers?"

It's a deconstruction of writers from the first few centuries and the motives behind why they wrote what they wrote in the way they did.
Ben
With the conclusions being what?
NumberTenOx
Wait for a really big book deal.
WesterMats
QUOTE(Ben @ Jun 1 2006, 08:45 PM) [snapback]100491[/snapback]

With the conclusions being what?

I'm still only 50 pages into it, but will update when I finish.
Nick
IPB Image
Pavement Ist Rad
IPB Image

Good band.

IPB Image

My friend had a copy of this that my other friend got for Christmas in 2003, but he didn't want it, so he gave it to that first friend I mentioned. Neither of them ever read it. I saw it on the first friend's shelf and asked if I could borrow it. I got through the first 60 pages or so. It's a weird book. I found the parts about Rites of Spring and Jawbreaker to be pretty interesting. But the section about Weezer? I expected him to explain how Weezer are barely an emo band and how Pinkerton is unfairly categorized as such. I mean, the chapter is called "The Curious Case of Weezer." What "Curious Case," though? He never justifies exactly what the "case" is or why it's "curious." Bleh. Also, this sentence bothered me:

"The pop juggernaut rolled on; Weezer became a footnote while a succession of memorable-to-mediocre singles (by Fountains of Wayne, Nada Surf, Superdrag, Nerf Herder, and others) filled the gap created by their absence and perpetuated the newfound genre of 'nerd-rock.'"

It's like he's implying that "Radiation Vibe," "Popular," "Sucked Out," and "Van Halen" are somehow possibly not great songs. What a dick.

Oh, and the "Who Are the Emo Kids?" section is hilarious.

And I looked in the index and there is absolutely no mention of Antioch Arrow, rendering this book completely worthless.
st. park
IPB Image
animals and men
That typo in Kakutani's praise doesn't speak well for the NY Times. I want to read American Pastoral, I love both The Plot Against America and Portnoy's Complaint.

Just finished:
IPB Image
Ben
QUOTE(Pavement Ist Rad @ Jun 7 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]105080[/snapback]

IPB Image
Did you ever see the author spazz on Bill after he gave it a middling review?
st. park
QUOTE(animals and men @ Jun 7 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]105269[/snapback]

That typo in Kakutani's praise doesn't speak well for the NY Times. I want to read American Pastoral, I love both The Plot Against America and Portnoy's Complaint.



haha, yea. they must have corrected that typo quickly; my copy reads "novels."
Pavement Ist Rad
QUOTE(Ben @ Jun 7 2006, 08:43 PM) [snapback]106193[/snapback]

Did you ever see the author spazz on Bill after he gave it a middling review?

"But at the end of the day if you don’t like the book, fine. I didn’t like your review either! smile.gif"

Ha.
undo
QUOTE(Pavement Ist Rad @ Jun 7 2006, 09:59 AM) [snapback]105080[/snapback]

IPB Image


Oddly enough, this seemed to sell really well to...teenagers, not older readers! Teens don't read books about music criticism now, do they? They're only supposed to be buying crappy, unauthorized books like "The Unauthorized Biography of Green Day," "The Eminem Story," or what have you. You know, paperbacks quicky written to spec mainly to cash in on some hot artist. Right?

But really, when I was working at the bookstore we sold tons of that emo book, and it was all to kids, not to academics or pop culture students. Are kids just getting smarter or has emo culture just made them so self-obsessed and solipsistic that they are now genuinely interested in dissecting and analyizing their own scene/worldview?
Pavement Ist Rad
Well, look at cover of the thing. The book is obviously "emo for kiddies." I mean, the preface is an account of Greenwald's attendance of a Dashboard Confessional concert. Part two is entitled "Vagrant America" and consists of a section about Vagrant Records, a section called "The Middle: On Tour With Jimmy Eat World," a section about the big "three labels," one of which is Drive-Thru Records, etc. In "From The Basement To The Stadium," he has sections dedicated to Taking Back Sunday and Thursday. He reprints e-mails and LiveJournal entries from die-hard, female Dashboard Confessional fans. It's not a "history of emo." I suppose it is an analysis of the culture, but it is presented in a way for the kids to enjoy, as Greenwald is very, very much on their side.

Themeparkexperience could tell you a lot more about this then I can. I just PMed him. We'll see what he has to say...
themeparkexperience
QUOTE(Pavement Ist Rad @ Jun 7 2006, 09:59 AM) [snapback]105080[/snapback]

But really, when I was working at the bookstore we sold tons of that emo book, and it was all to kids, not to academics or pop culture students. Are kids just getting smarter or has emo culture just made them so self-obsessed and solipsistic that they are now genuinely interested in dissecting and analyizing their own scene/worldview?


Here is one of biggest differences between mall emo (Dashboard Confessional, Taking Back Sunday) and the post-hardcore/emo that I grew up on (the Promise Ring, Sunny Day Real Estate):

Mall emo is almost exclusively for teenagers

I see merits in a number of these bands (I like TBS and DC and certain songs by the All-American Rejects), but ultimately, let's look at the subject matter of most emo lyrics. They are about experiencing love for the first time and being well, melodramatic about it, especially the breaking up aspect. I may have a hard time with finding somebody to love, but I don't think I want to be that melodramatic about it.

Seeing as how mainstream critics like to lump everything together, it's now to the point where anything that is sad and sung slightly off-key is emo. I disagree as the process behind a band like Sunny Day Real Estate is completely different than a band like Panic! At the Disco.

A problem with mall music in general (mall punk, mall emo) is that is an accessory of being young. Yes, you could say the same about grunge and new wave, but emo is a certain kind of cheeseball thing for us older people.

As someone who's life was changed by bands like Jawbox, Sunny Day Real Estate, Fugazi and Braid, this is why I'm documenting their stories in my book, Post. Instead of dancing in the whipped cream of life with these bands and pop culture, this is a serious look at the philosophies behind the music. You don't have to like any of the bands or labels I'm talking about (Dischord, Jawbox, Jawbreaker, SDRE, Braid, the Promise Ring, Hot Water Music, the Get Up Kids, At the Drive-In and Jimmy Eat World) to get something out of this.

My generation needs something as powerful as Our Band Could Be Your Life. While I can't guarantee that my book will be as good as that one, at least I'm trying to do something about it. That's what DIY means to me. As much as it would be easier for me to just bitch about things now, I feel totally compelled to put my two cents in. This has been the drive since day one and that's the drive I still have. It's been an amazing experience so far and I look forward to what's next.
worrywort
Possible Side Effects by Augusten Burroughs
IPB Image
maybe I should post this in the now listening, because I snagged the Audiobook from the library.
More of the same as his previous memoirs, but still fun.
I must admit though:

Augusten Burroughs' Audiobooks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Augusten Burroughs' Books
geoneb
My AP English summer reading:
IPB Image
Kate
QUOTE(worrywort @ Jun 8 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]107489[/snapback]

Possible Side Effects by Augusten Burroughs
IPB Image
maybe I should post this in the now listening, because I snagged the Audiobook from the library.
More of the same as his previous memoirs, but still fun.
I must admit though:

Augusten Burroughs' Audiobooks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Augusten Burroughs' Books

I like Augusten Burroughs. I've read all his stuff, and they're all enjoyable in a "I'm glad I'm so normal" sort of way. I saw him read last weekend at the Printers Row Book Fair and he was a lot of fun. He has some crazy, rabid fans! He read the chapter about them buying "the cow." It was a big crowd pleaser.
WesterMats
QUOTE(worrywort @ Jun 8 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]107489[/snapback]

Possible Side Effects by Augusten Burroughs
IPB Image
maybe I should post this in the now listening, because I snagged the Audiobook from the library.
More of the same as his previous memoirs, but still fun.
I must admit though:

Augusten Burroughs' Audiobooks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Augusten Burroughs' Books

I just read Running with Scissors and thought "meh. it's ok, but not all that."
Demon_Cleaner
IPB Image
Slackmo
QUOTE(WesterMats @ Apr 18 2006, 01:03 AM) [snapback]67159[/snapback]

QUOTE(avatar_ackbar @ Apr 9 2006, 08:05 PM) [snapback]60545[/snapback]

Here's another question for book enthusiasts: what was the first book that you fell in love with? That led you to find other great books out there?

Mine was The World According to Garp. Read it in High School, freshman year. After that I never read any books assigned to me in class. I found my own literature to read.


I also loved Garp, and it directed me to my favorite book of all time, A Prayer for Owen Meany.

The first book I fell in love with was Breakfast of Champions.


IPB Image


Dude, this is trippy. BoC was the first book I ever loved, and APfOM is my favorite book ever.
animals and men
Keeping the thread of coincidences going, these're the two books I read this past week:

IPB ImageIPB Image
WesterMats
QUOTE(Slackmo @ Jun 15 2006, 08:15 PM) [snapback]111591[/snapback]

QUOTE(WesterMats @ Apr 18 2006, 01:03 AM) [snapback]67159[/snapback]

QUOTE(avatar_ackbar @ Apr 9 2006, 08:05 PM) [snapback]60545[/snapback]

Here's another question for book enthusiasts: what was the first book that you fell in love with? That led you to find other great books out there?

Mine was The World According to Garp. Read it in High School, freshman year. After that I never read any books assigned to me in class. I found my own literature to read.


I also loved Garp, and it directed me to my favorite book of all time, A Prayer for Owen Meany.

The first book I fell in love with was Breakfast of Champions.


IPB Image


Dude, this is trippy. BoC was the first book I ever loved, and APfOM is my favorite book ever.
Hey, I knew there was a reason I always liked your posts!


QUOTE(animals and men @ Jun 16 2006, 03:04 PM) [snapback]112273[/snapback]

Keeping the thread of coincidences going, these're the two books I read this past week:

IPB ImageIPB Image

The thing I love about Cat's Cradle is its invention of a new language to describe its concepts, like "bokamoru," "morass," and "dupress" (? the word for two people in a lifelong relationship).
animals and men
QUOTE(WesterMats @ Jun 17 2006, 02:08 AM) [snapback]112571[/snapback]


QUOTE(animals and men @ Jun 16 2006, 03:04 PM) [snapback]112273[/snapback]

Keeping the thread of coincidences going, these're the two books I read this past week:

IPB ImageIPB Image

The thing I love about Cat's Cradle is its invention of a new language to describe its concepts, like "bokamoru," "morass," and "dupress" (? the word for two people in a lifelong relationship).


Yeah, I think that's what I like best about the novel. It's a clever way of re-approaching Plato's Republic, with not only its own noble lies in the guise of Bokononism, but even a language that colorfully describes the faults Vonnegut sees in post-WWII America. My favorite word is granfalloon, which Bokonon uses to describe irrelevant groups that people attribute importance to instead of their karass (Hoosiers and Americans fall into the "granfalloon" category).

The ice-nine end-of-the-world thing, on the other hand, I can do without.
Demon_Cleaner
I didn't like Cat's Cradle much.
Ben
Did y'all see KV kill on The Daily Show? Too funny how he drags out that first bit, leading people along.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u3Mlo_z5crM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u3Mlo_z5crM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
velocity
^^I liked the part about how we're teaching Iraq about democracy. What's with the labored breathing? Does he have emphysema?
WesterMats
QUOTE(animals and men @ Jun 17 2006, 12:14 PM) [snapback]112692[/snapback]

Yeah, I think that's what I like best about the novel. It's a clever way of re-approaching Plato's Republic, with not only its own noble lies in the guise of Bokononism, but even a language that colorfully describes the faults Vonnegut sees in post-WWII America. My favorite word is granfalloon, which Bokonon uses to describe irrelevant groups that people attribute importance to instead of their karass (Hoosiers and Americans fall into the "granfalloon" category).

The ice-nine end-of-the-world thing, on the other hand, I can do without.

It's been a long time since I read that. If I remember right, "granfalloons" are still important in their non-importance in that they give people's lives a sense of meaning. Kind of like "foma." And that leads to Wampeters, Foma, and Granfalloons.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.