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Andyroo
QUOTE(kmac @ Jun 29 2006, 07:44 AM) [snapback]120864[/snapback]

QUOTE(deja andyroo @ Jun 29 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]120812[/snapback]

It has Jojo... must be a classic...........

Right.

Emma Watson countdown, hot. Less than two years!


screw the countdown, she's hot now.


Oh, totally agreed. But the possibility for nude pictures becomes amplified in a couple of years when she's legal and Harry Potter is about to end. She'll need the money, and we'll need the naked.
Slackmo
I'd like to take a moment to apologize for talking about movies in the movie thread, changing the subject from all the slobbering over a 16-year-old*

*(Paves is excepted from my sarcasm.)

Back to the lecture at hand:

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August 29th release date. Mark your calendars accordingly.
undo
^ Not a movie.
Agrimorfee
QUOTE(undo @ Jun 29 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]121281[/snapback]

^ Not a movie.


Will people quit with that already? It plays in a DVD player, therefore at Slackmo's house it is NOW PLAYING. Yeesh.
Slackmo
QUOTE(undo @ Jun 29 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]121281[/snapback]

^ Not a movie.


I knew someone would jump on this.

You broke my heart, Fredo.
Slackmo
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Jury's still out on this one. I admire the way it was made, the premise, the technique, the acting, but there's a whole bunch o' spoiler-related stuff that keeps me from giving it the full reco. I think it was worthwhile--and yet I can see why the only friend I talked with who's seen it absolutely hated it.

If you do watch it (and I'm kind of hoping you will) don't read up on it beforehand. Also, don't return it until you read about it afterwards, because there's about a 75/25 chance you'll miss a (somewhat dubious but significant) secret that's revealed in the final act.

Vaya con huevos, my darlings.
undo
QUOTE(agrimorfee @ Jun 29 2006, 03:00 PM) [snapback]121294[/snapback]

Will people quit with that already? It plays in a DVD player, therefore at Slackmo's house it is NOW PLAYING. Yeesh.

Haha. Just joking.

Here are some more DVDs that are not movies.

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Watched all these over the past 2 months. Maybe the funniest sitcom I've ever seen. Amazing. Obviously, I'm looking forward to the movie, which comes on on the same day as Pirates of the Carribbean and A Scanner Darkly. Really don't know what I'll end up going to first.
Slackmo
QUOTE(undo @ Jun 29 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]121354[/snapback]
g. Obviously, I'm looking forward to the movie, which comes on on the same day as Pirates of the Carribbean and A Scanner Darkly. Really don't know what I'll end up going to first.


Dude, see Strangers With Candy first, just so you don't miss it.
Pavement Ist Rad
QUOTE(Slackmo @ Jun 29 2006, 02:42 PM) [snapback]121266[/snapback]

I'd like to take a moment to apologize for talking about movies in the movie thread, changing the subject from all the slobbering over a 16-year-old*

*(Paves is excepted from my sarcasm.)

What.
Pavement Ist Rad
Various posts on this board from Aftershock and Useless Rocker, as well as the "Best sketch comedy show" thread, have put me on yet another major Mr. Show kick:

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"I ain't got no flyin' shoes."
Slackmo
Bob Lamonta to thread.
Pavement Ist Rad
Oh, shit. When I finish up with season 2 (two more episodes to go), I get to watch that episode. Awesome.

"My mother... was of normal intelligence. My father, on the other hand... was also of normal intelligence."
red
QUOTE(Pavement Ist Rad @ Jul 2 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]123281[/snapback]

Various posts on this board from Aftershock and Useless Rocker, as well as the "Best sketch comedy show" thread, have put me on yet another major Mr. Show kick:

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"I ain't got no flyin' shoes."

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Tofutti Break!
Come on everyone, to the cafetorium!
mouthbreather
I hit the cinema and took in some mainstream entertainment this weekend.

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Nacho Libre
Jack Black has no shame! He was pretty funny in this. Although I can't imagine this film working without him. His overblown personality carried the otherwise weak plot.
3 / 4

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The Break-Up
Is anyone else sick of Vince Vaughan? He was a bit more tolerable in this movie than his other recent efforts. This was a bitch-fest, with much fewer comedic than you would guess from the trailers. Anniston was decent - she actually makes an attempt at acting. Wait for a rental or cable.
2.5 / 4
TJENZ
QUOTE(mouthbreather @ Jul 3 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]123610[/snapback]

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The Break-Up
Is anyone else sick of Vince Vaughan? He was a bit more tolerable in this movie than his other recent efforts. This was a bitch-fest, with much fewer comedic than you would guess from the trailers. Anniston was decent - she actually makes an attempt at acting. Wait for a rental or cable.
2.5 / 4

Vince Vaughn does not have that much hair.
AFTERSHOCK
Been on a Cronenberg kick all weekend. Dunno why. Nor do I know why I've always liked this move. It's too short, doens't really explore all the fasciating ideas it proposes, and James Woods is sorta off-sync throughout the whole film.

But still, it's always had a hook in me....

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mouthbreather
I know why... it's a great movie. Granted it looks a little dated today - VHS tapes and all!
I really like the dreamlike, surreal quality to the movie, and the way that it blurs the line between fantasy vs. reality. Sure it's a little overwrought, and in Woods case, overacted, but it's classic Cronenberg.
undo
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OMG ohmy.gif
BobtheSquid
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TJENZ
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Syriana
I didn't find it as hard to follow as I expected. Well done movie, but it didn't really cover anything new.
Did Clooney really get an Oscar for this? wtf

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Devil's Rejects
I was very entertained. A great homage to the slasher films of the 70's. I much prefer Rob Zombie's movies over his music.
helmet52
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The Tree Burials of Melquiades Estrada

Wow. Who would have thought that Tommy Lee Jones had such a brilliant film in him? This was a fantastic classic Western, told in a non-linear Faulkner-esque timeline. The cinematography beautifully captures the starkness of southwest Texas along the Mexican border. The performances were near perfect with characters who say as much when they don't speak as when they do. The central themes of love and redemption reveal themselves quietly all the way up to the final shot of the film. I can't wait to watch it again tonight. Highly recommended.
NumberTenOx
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OMFG. This film is terrible, despite good performances from Pena and Dillon. I can't believe how something this manipulative, shallow, crass, predictable, condescending made it into the theatres.

But then, I wanted to see something bad on purpose, so I got...

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Shame on you, Paul Bettany. I don't expect anything from Harrison Ford these days (his last couple of movies have been big stinkers-- he either mugs the "You want to see God?" expression, or he's got a goofy grin on his face. Was he really thought of as the next big thing?)

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I wanted to eat some popcorn, but I felt like I couldn't do that without doing something that could at least be disguised as productive.
avec
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I was a little dissappointed, and I know everyone gave it rave reviews here,
so I had high expectations.
half of it was prairie wind material, which I find incredibly weak. but the other half
was decent. I could do without 'needle and the damage done' and 'old man'
but knew he had to pull them out, right? kudos for playing some stuff on
"comes a time," an underrated album of his. and that canadian song he covered
was great as well.
and demme did a fantastic job directing this! so many cleanly set up
shots of all the players involved on stage. very well done from his side.


QUOTE(AFTERSHOCK @ Jul 3 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]123657[/snapback]

Been on a Cronenberg kick all weekend. Dunno why. Nor do I know why I've always liked this move. It's too short, doens't really explore all the fasciating ideas it proposes, and James Woods is sorta off-sync throughout the whole film.

But still, it's always had a hook in me....


no need to justify it. this film is amazing.
Slackmo
QUOTE(avatar_ackbar @ Jul 5 2006, 10:25 PM) [snapback]125146[/snapback]

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My god that's a phenomenal poster. (And I'm not even a fan.)
worrywort
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theremin
I see your crappy Direct 2 DVD Sequels and I raise you:

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worrywort
jeez, Hollywood is full of whores, and "Straight to DVD" are their 5 dollar handjobs
AFTERSHOCK
QUOTE(worrywort @ Jul 6 2006, 02:03 AM) [snapback]125219[/snapback]

jeez, Hollywood is full of whores, and "Straight to DVD" are their 5 dollar handjobs

A masterful assesment of the situation!
Wayne Schlagel
My son rented Life Of Brian from the $1 section and I found it amusing, but not insanely hilarious like I expect from Monty Python. We both recoiled when Graham Chapman opened the window and flashed his everything to the townsfolk.
TJENZ
QUOTE(Bhickman @ Jul 6 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]125638[/snapback]

My son rented Life Of Brian from the $1 section and I found it amusing, but not insanely hilarious like I expect from Monty Python. We both recoiled when Graham Chapman opened the window and flashed his everything to the townsfolk.

I know what you mean
my mom took me to see that movie in the theatre when it came out
oh the horror
AFTERSHOCK
QUOTE(Bhickman @ Jul 6 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]125638[/snapback]

My son rented Life Of Brian from the $1 section and I found it amusing, but not insanely hilarious like I expect from Monty Python. We both recoiled when Graham Chapman opened the window and flashed his everything to the townsfolk.

I wasn't a big fan of that one until after dating my psycho Baptist ex. I must say, the jokes are much funnier when you know the historical events + scriptures they're lapooning. Gotta love Terry Gilliam as the fire-and-brimstone prophet who rants incoherently about the whore of Babylon. Palin as the ex-leper was also a treat. And lest we forget... Bigus Dickus?

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Pavement Ist Rad
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Fuck yeah.
held
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illtown

At one time I really thought Nick Gomez was gonna be one of the next great directors.
'Laws of Gravity' & 'New Jersey Drive' were both fairly solid flicks in my mind and I never did figure out what happened to him after this one. I never bothered to check this out til the other night when it was on. He did one other flop (Drowning Mona) and I guess otherwise the TV bug bit him and he's never gone back to flicks again.
Slackmo
QUOTE(held @ Jul 7 2006, 11:26 AM) [snapback]126598[/snapback]

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illtown

At one time I really thought Nick Gomez was gonna be one of the next great directors.
'Laws of Gravity' & 'New Jersey Drive' were both fairly solid flicks in my mind and I never did figure out what happened to him after this one. I never bothered to check this out til the other night when it was on. He did one other flop (Drowning Mona) and I guess otherwise the TV bug bit him and he's never gone back to flicks again.


Drowning Mona was a hanging offense.
Pavement Ist Rad
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Peckinpah is the master.
Mitchell
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One of the best sitcoms ever. Fact.
Ben
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I walked down near Ford’s Theater this afternoon to catch The War Tapes at E Street Cinema. The concept is simple. Along with the rifle, assault pack, body armor and other gear issued to the typical American soldier, five members of a National Guard unit from New Hampshire set for deployment to Iraq were equipped with a less conventional tool: the hand-held video camera.

The embedded journalist is one of the American military’s notable, if not altogether significant, innovations of the Iraq War. The unkempt scribe in fatigues and shades, mail-order helmet askance, packing his bags and enlisting to travel with an individual unit, ceding independence in return for access. If softening coverage was, as many allege, the Pentagon’s intent, then this film should theoretically be an even greater realization of its mission. The bothersome vulture is disposed with entirely. Where the embedment program would cast the journalist as soldier, The War Tapes casts the soldier as journalist.

But the result isn’t the upbeat infomercial we’ve come to expect from the White House and the Pentagon’s civilian leadership. It’s a ground-level chronicle of the frustrations, dashed hopes and anxieties that have, unfortunately, come to characterize the occupation. Arriving for their tour well after the fall of Baghdad, our guides aren’t witness to much in the way of valor, or even combat. Instead it would seem that they spend most of their days sheparding contractors and support staff through a minefield of improvised explosives amid the palpable unease of the native population. Measuring success proves as elusive as understanding the enemy, whose appearances are limited to a few gruesome bodies strewn by the side of the road after a frenetic spasm of automatic gunfire.

Cynicism pervades the barracks, eventually afflicting even the once idealistic Michael Moriarty, a husband and father who rushed to New York after the attacks of September 11, 2001, and who, like many Americans, earnestly viewed the invasion as an unavoidable challenge imposed by the destruction of that day. He was so inspired by what he saw at Ground Zero, he says, that he was moved to leave his family behind and follow the president’s call to action. By the end of their tour, the common sentiment among the soldiers treats the war not as a benevolent, if flawed, liberation, but instead a brutish power grab in the war of all against all. Power and money is what war has always been about, Stephen Pink says after he’s returned home to Cape Cod, and his hope is that at least some regular Americans get to taste the profits from this one.

The majority of the venom we hear from the soldier’s lips isn’t directed at insurgents or Iraqis, but instead the American contractors Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton that has been outsourced billions of dollars worth of logistics work. The most frequent target is vice president and former Halliburton executive, Dick Cheney, who the soldiers routinely lampoon as a war profiteer.

And after the relief and joy of their safe homecoming fades away, the story turns grim again, as the soldiers struggle to overcome physical and psychological infirmities and grapple with the challenge of reconnecting with family and friends who are largely unable to relate to their distant experiences.

The recipient of nearly universal critical praise, having scored points for “not being preachy” and offering an “unvarnished” view of the war, it’s worth remembering that, as the Village Voice’s Michael Atkinson emphasizes in the lone dissent I could find among major critics, there’s one very important point of view that’s been left out of this and most other visual depictions of the war, the Iraqi perspective. Indeed, as Atkinson observes, although I will add the exception of a Lebanese soldier who speaks Arabic and strives to connect with the natives, the voices in the film almost exclusively “disdainfully observe the indigenous populace from a distance as if they were hyenas on the veld.”

While the American psyche may yearn to withdraw and nurse its wounds after the shock of the Iraq experience, can this country truly answer the global challenge issued on September 11 or ever hope to satisfy the responsibilities it accepted when it invaded Iraq simply by looking in the mirror?
theremin
QUOTE(Ben @ Jul 8 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]127711[/snapback]

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My #1 for '06, so far. It opened at the Music Box yesterday, I hope it's doing well.
Ben
Did you see Gunner Palace?

I've met Chris Hedges, the guy who gives that quote at the top of the poster. Dude is deadly serious. He gave this speech about the war, full of allusions to Greek myth and delivered in the full-on Protestant minister ferver, that was rattling off the wall. I tried to ask him why some journalists, like him, see Orwell as a hero of the anti-war movement, while others look to Orwell's early stand against Stalinism as inspiration for a stand against 'Islamo-facism."

Hedges: Are you talking about Hitchens?!
Ben: Uh, uh. I guess.
Hedges: I would advise you to read Orwell yourself.
theremin
QUOTE(Ben @ Jul 8 2006, 08:44 PM) [snapback]127718[/snapback]

Did you see Gunner Palace?


I saw Gunner Palace. I didn't get much out of it. I actually thought Control Room was even better. This is WAY better than any of the recent docs I've seen. Probably Steve James' STEVIE is the last doc that is as good as this.
geoneb
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Very trippy, and very depressing towards the end.
TJENZ
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Cars
I just could not get into this movie. Never gave a damn about Lightning McQueen or any other car in the movie.
Worst Pixar movie? yes
Though, I must admit, the animation and look of the movie is spectacular.
crease
While I think the criticism you noted is fair, I also can't help but feel it's better-levied at a film that sought to portray the war in the most-comprehensive manner possible. The fact that they outfitted nat'l guard troops only with film equipment should make the film-makers' intent pretty clear--to chronicle the experiences of the guys behind the lens, literally and figuratively distilling what they're experiencing. Of course they could have interviewed some Iraqi talking heads. But my fuzzy understanding of the film is that such commentary would have been off-strategy. So, I don't quite get it.

What you didn't really say in all of this is whether you liked it.

On a totally unrelated note, I finally caught Gus Van Sant's 'Elephant' and was duly disturbed as hell by it. Very well done. Almost too well.
QUOTE(Ben @ Jul 8 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]127711[/snapback]

IPB Image

I walked down near Ford’s Theater this afternoon to catch The War Tapes at E Street Cinema. The concept is simple. Along with the rifle, assault pack, body armor and other gear issued to the typical American soldier, five members of a National Guard unit from New Hampshire set for deployment to Iraq were equipped with a less conventional tool: the hand-held video camera.

The embedded journalist is one of the American military’s notable, if not altogether significant, innovations of the Iraq War. The unkempt scribe in fatigues and shades, mail-order helmet askance, packing his bags and enlisting to travel with an individual unit, ceding independence in return for access. If softening coverage was, as many allege, the Pentagon’s intent, then this film should theoretically be an even greater realization of its mission. The bothersome vulture is disposed with entirely. Where the embedment program would cast the journalist as soldier, The War Tapes casts the soldier as journalist.

But the result isn’t the upbeat infomercial we’ve come to expect from the White House and the Pentagon’s civilian leadership. It’s a ground-level chronicle of the frustrations, dashed hopes and anxieties that have, unfortunately, come to characterize the occupation. Arriving for their tour well after the fall of Baghdad, our guides aren’t witness to much in the way of valor, or even combat. Instead it would seem that they spend most of their days sheparding contractors and support staff through a minefield of improvised explosives amid the palpable unease of the native population. Measuring success proves as elusive as understanding the enemy, whose appearances are limited to a few gruesome bodies strewn by the side of the road after a frenetic spasm of automatic gunfire.

Cynicism pervades the barracks, eventually afflicting even the once idealistic Michael Moriarty, a husband and father who rushed to New York after the attacks of September 11, 2001, and who, like many Americans, earnestly viewed the invasion as an unavoidable challenge imposed by the destruction of that day. He was so inspired by what he saw at Ground Zero, he says, that he was moved to leave his family behind and follow the president’s call to action. By the end of their tour, the common sentiment among the soldiers treats the war not as a benevolent, if flawed, liberation, but instead a brutish power grab in the war of all against all. Power and money is what war has always been about, Stephen Pink says after he’s returned home to Cape Cod, and his hope is that at least some regular Americans get to taste the profits from this one.

The majority of the venom we hear from the soldier’s lips isn’t directed at insurgents or Iraqis, but instead the American contractors Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton that has been outsourced billions of dollars worth of logistics work. The most frequent target is vice president and former Halliburton executive, Dick Cheney, who the soldiers routinely lampoon as a war profiteer.

And after the relief and joy of their safe homecoming fades away, the story turns grim again, as the soldiers struggle to overcome physical and psychological infirmities and grapple with the challenge of reconnecting with family and friends who are largely unable to relate to their distant experiences.

The recipient of nearly universal critical praise, having scored points for “not being preachy” and offering an “unvarnished” view of the war, it’s worth remembering that, as the Village Voice’s Michael Atkinson emphasizes in the lone dissent I could find among major critics, there’s one very important point of view that’s been left out of this and most other visual depictions of the war, the Iraqi perspective. Indeed, as Atkinson observes, although I will add the exception of a Lebanese soldier who speaks Arabic and strives to connect with the natives, the voices in the film almost exclusively “disdainfully observe the indigenous populace from a distance as if they were hyenas on the veld.”

While the American psyche may yearn to withdraw and nurse its wounds after the shock of the Iraq experience, can this country truly answer the global challenge issued on September 11 or ever hope to satisfy the responsibilities it accepted when it invaded Iraq simply by looking in the mirror?

WesterMats
QUOTE(Slackmo @ Jun 21 2006, 09:50 AM) [snapback]115255[/snapback]

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Another spectacular film that doesn't shy away from asking the audience to think. (Instead of telling them how to think, a la Crash.) Real live entertainment for grownups.

And with that, we essentially close the books on 2005. Time to revisit the year-end results.

Great post!
Ben
QUOTE(crease @ Jul 9 2006, 10:16 PM) [snapback]128166[/snapback]

While I think the criticism you noted is fair, I also can't help but feel it's better-levied at a film that sought to portray the war in the most-comprehensive manner possible. The fact that they outfitted nat'l guard troops only with film equipment should make the film-makers' intent pretty clear--to chronicle the experiences of the guys behind the lens, literally and figuratively distilling what they're experiencing. Of course they could have interviewed some Iraqi talking heads. But my fuzzy understanding of the film is that such commentary would have been off-strategy. So, I don't quite get it.
I just felt like talking about more than the movie itself. The reality that these soldiers are so close yet so distant from the people they're supposedly there to liberate is really quite disturbing when you see it. I was floored by how deeply cynical these decent and well-meaning soldiers had become.

I didn't mean to knock this movie all that hard for not including any Iraqi voices, but just to note that it's part of larger pattern. Here's an interesting question posed into today's Washington Post:

QUOTE
What's an Iraqi Life Worth?

By Andrew J. Bacevich
Sunday, July 9, 2006; B01

In Iraq, lives differ in value -- and so do deaths. In this disparity lies an important reason why the United States has botched this war.

Last November in Haditha , a squad of Marines, outraged at the loss of a comrade, is said to have run amok, avenging his death by killing two dozen innocent bystanders. And in March, U.S. soldiers in Mahmudiyah allegedly raped a young Iraqi woman and killed her along with three of her relatives -- an apparently premeditated crime for which one former U.S. soldier has been charged . These incidents are among at least five recent cases of Iraqi civilian deaths that have triggered investigations of U.S. military personnel. If the allegations prove true, Haditha and Mahmudiyah will deservedly take their place alongside Sand Creek, Samar and My Lai in the unhappy catalogue of atrocities committed by American troops.

But recall a more recent incident, in Samarra . On May 30, U.S. soldiers manning a checkpoint there opened fire on a speeding vehicle that either did not see or failed to heed their command to stop. Two women in the vehicle were shot dead. One of them, Nahiba Husayif Jassim, 35, was pregnant. The baby was also killed. The driver, Jassim's brother, had been rushing her to a hospital to give birth. No one tried to cover up the incident: U.S. military representatives issued expressions of regret.

In all likelihood, we will be learning more about Haditha and Mahmudiyah for months to come, whereas the Samarra story has already been filed away and largely forgotten. And that's the problem.

The killing at the Samarra checkpoint was not an atrocity; most likely it was an accident, a mistake. Yet plenty of evidence suggests that in Iraq such mistakes have occurred routinely, with moral and political consequences that have been too long ignored. Indeed, conscious motivation is beside the point: Any action resulting in Iraqi civilian deaths, however inadvertent, undermines the Bush administration's narrative of liberation, and swells the ranks of those resisting the U.S. presence.

Gen. Tommy Franks, who commanded U.S. forces when they entered Iraq more than three years ago, famously declared: "We don't do body counts." Franks was speaking in code. What he meant was this: The U.S. military has learned the lessons of Vietnam -- where body counts became a principal, and much derided, public measure of success -- and it has no intention of repeating that experience. Franks was not going to be one of those generals re-fighting the last war.

Unfortunately, Franks and other senior commanders had not so much learned from Vietnam as forgotten it. This disdain for counting bodies, especially those of Iraqi civilians killed in the course of U.S. operations, is among the reasons why U.S. forces find themselves in another quagmire. It's not that the United States has an aversion to all body counts. We tally every U.S. service member who falls in Iraq, and rightly so. But only in recent months have military leaders finally begun to count -- for internal use only -- some of the very large number of Iraqi noncombatants whom American bullets and bombs have killed.

Through the war's first three years, any Iraqi venturing too close to an American convoy or checkpoint was likely to come under fire. Thousands of these "escalation of force" episodes occurred. Now, Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the commander of U.S. ground forces in Iraq, has begun to recognize the hidden cost of such an approach. "People who were on the fence or supported us" in the past "have in fact decided to strike out against us," he recently acknowledged.

In the early days of the insurgency, some U.S. commanders appeared oblivious to the possibility that excessive force might produce a backlash. They counted on the iron fist to create an atmosphere conducive to good behavior. The idea was not to distinguish between "good" and "bad" Iraqis, but to induce compliance through intimidation.

"You have to understand the Arab mind," one company commander told the New York Times, displaying all the self-assurance of Douglas MacArthur discoursing on Orientals in 1945. "The only thing they understand is force -- force, pride and saving face." Far from representing the views of a few underlings, such notions penetrated into the upper echelons of the American command. In their book "Cobra II," Michael R. Gordon and Gen. Bernard E. Trainor offer this ugly comment from a senior officer: "The only thing these sand niggers understand is force and I'm about to introduce them to it."

Such crass language, redolent with racist, ethnocentric connotations, speaks volumes. These characterizations, like the use of "gooks" during the Vietnam War, dehumanize the Iraqis and in doing so tacitly permit the otherwise impermissible. Thus, Abu Ghraib and Haditha -- and too many regretted deaths, such as that of Nahiba Husayif Jassim.

As the war enters its fourth year, how many innocent Iraqis have died at American hands, not as a result of Haditha-like massacres but because of accidents and errors? The military doesn't know and, until recently, has publicly professed no interest in knowing. Estimates range considerably, but the number almost certainly runs in the tens of thousands. Even granting the common antiwar bias of those who track the Iraqi death toll -- and granting, too, that the insurgents have far more blood on their hands -- there is no question that the number of Iraqi noncombatants killed by U.S. forces exceeds by an order of magnitude the number of U.S. troops killed in hostile action, which is now more than 2,000.

Who bears responsibility for these Iraqi deaths? The young soldiers pulling the triggers? The commanders who establish rules of engagement that privilege "force protection" over any obligation to protect innocent life? The intellectually bankrupt policymakers who sent U.S. forces into Iraq in the first place and now see no choice but to press on? The culture that, to put it mildly, has sought neither to understand nor to empathize with people in the Arab or Islamic worlds?

There are no easy answers, but one at least ought to acknowledge that in launching a war advertised as a high-minded expression of U.S. idealism, we have waded into a swamp of moral ambiguity. To assert that "stuff happens," as Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is wont to do whenever events go awry, simply does not suffice.

Moral questions aside, the toll of Iraqi noncombatant casualties has widespread political implications. Misdirected violence alienates those we are claiming to protect. It plays into the hands of the insurgents, advancing their cause and undercutting our own. It fatally undermines the campaign to win hearts and minds, suggesting to Iraqis and Americans alike that Iraqi civilians -- and perhaps Arabs and Muslims more generally -- are expendable. Certainly, Nahiba Husayif Jassim's death helped clarify her brother's perspective on the war. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here," he declared after the incident. "They have no regard for our lives."

He was being unfair, of course. It's not that we have no regard for Iraqi lives; it's just that we have much less regard for them. The current reparations policy -- the payment offered in those instances in which U.S. forces do own up to killing an Iraq civilian -- makes the point. The insurance payout to the beneficiaries of an American soldier who dies in the line of duty is $400,000, while in the eyes of the U.S. government, a dead Iraqi civilian is reportedly worth up to $2,500 in condolence payments -- about the price of a decent plasma-screen TV.

For all the talk of Iraq being a sovereign nation, foreign occupiers are the ones deciding what an Iraqi life is worth. And although President Bush has remarked in a different context that "every human life is a precious gift of matchless value," our actions in Iraq continue to convey the impression that civilian lives aren't worth all that much.

That impression urgently needs to change. To start, the Pentagon must get over its aversion to counting all bodies. It needs to measure in painstaking detail -- and publicly -- the mayhem we are causing as a byproduct of what we call liberation. To do otherwise, to shrug off the death of Nahiba Husayif Jassim as just one of those things that happens in war, only reinforces the impression that Americans view Iraqis as less than fully human. Unless we demonstrate by our actions that we value their lives as much as the lives of our own troops, our failure is certain.

bacevich@bu.edu

Andrew J. Bacevich is a professor of history and international relations at Boston University.
worrywort
QUOTE(MitchellStirling @ Jul 8 2006, 04:16 PM) [snapback]127568[/snapback]

IPB Image

One of the best sitcoms ever. Fact.

And as an added bonus, there'd be no Question for Jews thread without Godber
Agrimorfee
QUOTE(AFTERSHOCK @ Jul 6 2006, 09:29 PM) [snapback]126139[/snapback]

QUOTE(Bhickman @ Jul 6 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]125638[/snapback]

My son rented Life Of Brian from the $1 section and I found it amusing, but not insanely hilarious like I expect from Monty Python. We both recoiled when Graham Chapman opened the window and flashed his everything to the townsfolk.

I wasn't a big fan of that one until after dating my psycho Baptist ex. I must say, the jokes are much funnier when you know the historical events + scriptures they're lapooning. Gotta love Terry Gilliam as the fire-and-brimstone prophet who rants incoherently about the whore of Babylon. Palin as the ex-leper was also a treat. And lest we forget... Bigus Dickus?


I have a rare "coffee-table" scrapbook/script book of the film that includes extracts of the script not used in the film--some items, if they had been used, would have had the idiot religious protestors that decried the movie something to really rant about.

QUOTE(undo @ Jul 4 2006, 02:34 AM) [snapback]123983[/snapback]

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OMG ohmy.gif


Creepy as hell as I remember it.
Slackmo
QUOTE(agrimorfee @ Jul 10 2006, 10:27 AM) [snapback]128442[/snapback]

QUOTE(AFTERSHOCK @ Jul 6 2006, 09:29 PM) [snapback]126139[/snapback]

QUOTE(Bhickman @ Jul 6 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]125638[/snapback]

My son rented Life Of Brian from the $1 section and I found it amusing, but not insanely hilarious like I expect from Monty Python. We both recoiled when Graham Chapman opened the window and flashed his everything to the townsfolk.

I wasn't a big fan of that one until after dating my psycho Baptist ex. I must say, the jokes are much funnier when you know the historical events + scriptures they're lapooning. Gotta love Terry Gilliam as the fire-and-brimstone prophet who rants incoherently about the whore of Babylon. Palin as the ex-leper was also a treat. And lest we forget... Bigus Dickus?


I have a rare "coffee-table" scrapbook/script book of the film that includes extracts of the script not used in the film--some items, if they had been used, would have had the idiot religious protestors that decried the movie something to really rant about.


Details would be helpful.
Agrimorfee
[quote name='Slackmo' date='Jul 10 2006, 10:29 AM' post='128445']
I have a rare "coffee-table" scrapbook/script book of the film that includes extracts of the script not used in the film--some items, if they had been used, would have had the idiot religious protestors that decried the movie something to really rant about.
[/quote]

Details would be helpful.
[/quote]

What comes to mind is the Joseph character getting into an argument with Mary (before they decided to change the names) about how she got knocked up by the Holy Ghost. I tried googling, but it doesn't seem to be posted anywhere. If you want a transcript, I can get it for you in a few day's time.

Also, per the BBC web site:
The most controversial scene cut from the final version of the film featured 'King Otto', a fascist trying to establish a racially-pure Jewish state. Deleting this scene left something of a problem in that King Otto's suicide squad were visible lying around Brian's cross in the closing scenes of the film. The problem was solved by adding some new footage and dubbing over the original shot so that the suicide squad were now representatives of the 'Judean People's Front'.



Slackmo
QUOTE(agrimorfee @ Jul 10 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]128462[/snapback]

The problem was solved by adding some new footage and dubbing over the original shot so that the suicide squad were now representatives of the 'Judean People's Front'.


Talk about a happy accident. The JPF naming scene is one of the funniest in the movie.
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