Well White Sox fans, until last season I thoroughly enjoyed the Twins/White Sox rivalry the previous 3 years, because you guy always self-destructed and we kicked your asses. Last year, it wasn't as much fun for me.

That being said, with pitchers/catchers starting to report, and spring training just around the corner, its time to get excited for baseball. My Twins were weak in the offseason with their moves, so I'm not approacing the season with major positivity. Not to mention that the White Sox got better. But, at this time of year its tough to not get a little excited.

As you may or may not know, last week a Minneapolis judge entered an order whereby he agreed with the Twins that they were not required to play in the Metrodome after the 2006 season. As of today, they currently do not have a stadium deal in place. They got close last year, but our legislature went into partisan shutdown (literally shut the doors), so no business was taken care of. Now, that plan appears to be dead.

Currently the Twins are doing very little to pursue a stadium deal. They've been trying for over 10 years, to no avail. It is not very promising on that front.

It has started to percolate up here that MLB is likely looking to contract 2 teams after this season. The common speculation currently favors the Minnesota Twins and Florida Marlins as the two teams most likely to be contracted. They are in mid-sized markets, and are woefully behind in revenues. The other MLB owners are getting sick and tired of profit-sharing with mid-sized market teams who can't take care of their own business at home.

If contraction is attempted, it is not expected that MLB will announce it in advance like before (when they got lambasted publically). They will most likely let the process pass the point of no return before any announcement is made. More ominous is the fact that many feel the MLB Players Union won't object strongly to loss of those teams and jobs, either.

So, if the Twins (who are acting like they are resigned to their fate) do not have a stadium deal in place by the end of this legislative session (early May 2006), it will be more likely than not that they will be contracted after this season. It is expected that the announcement could come any time after July.

Yikes, huh?

better jump ship now. join white sox nation

Never. If it happens, I think I'll root for whoever Santana ends up pitching for. That guy is just all kinds of awesome.

I find that hard to believe...and spooky, as well. I can see MLB folding up the Marlins but the Twins? When the Tampa Bay Devil Rays deserve extinction so much more than any other club?!

I'm hoping they sagely decide to stamp out the St. Louis Cardinals...but I've got my own reasons for that.

I've heard a lot of competing theories on the direction in which this is going to go. I would think that both the union and MLB would rather see these teams move to Las Vegas and Portland as opposed to shutting down entirely, since reducing the number of clubs would probably push down salaries and put a pall over the sport as a whole.

If contraction does happen, hopefully it will mean more competitive play among the remaining teams and more internationalization of the sport.

so funny that people think Vegas and Portland deserve a baseball team over Minneapolis.

Mpls is a much bigger market than either of those two cities, and the Twins have had plenty of success in the last 15-20 years.

Yeah, but our stupid-ass legislature won't get the stadium deal done. They won't hesitate to tax Hennepin County 25 cents on every 100 dollars spent to pay for the Minneapolis Arts Commission (or whatever the hell it is - the new Guthrie and stuff) and Minnesota Public Radio, but a tax of 15 cents on every 100 dollars spent at bars, restaurants and hotels in Hennepin County is shot down like its the biggest crime in the history of mankind.

What a joke.

Hey, if people in those cities are more willing to support new stadium construction, it might not matter. And Las Vegas has a lot of upside.
Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws in my desire to avoid contraction...

the thing is, Minnesotans are stubborn with their money (and rightfully so). i know i wouldn't want any of my tax dollars going to a new Viqueens stadium, yet i'd gladly be happy for it to go towards the Twins stadium.

if it comes down to contraction or a new stadium, they will find a way to get the stadium done, mark my words.

yes the Vikings are the most popular pro sports team in Minnesota, but the Twins are not far behind, and people remember '87 and '91 quite fondly. the Twins are more popular outside of the cities than the Vikings too, fwiw.

my thoughts on the Twins stadium deal is conflicting, because Pohlad is a dirty/greedy fucking scoundrel, and there's no reason that the public should have to help pay for well over half of a new stadium, but i really REALLY would be crushed to see them gone (as would many, even outside of MN)

I'll believe it when I see it that a pro sports league will allow a team to relocate to Vegas. Just too much risk with the gambling.

Pete Rose's gambling/HOF is still a huge issue for the league, and the current NHL/Gretzkey fiasco is scary enough to scare any professional league from Vegas for the time being, IMO.

As for Portland, I've heard that it isn't that hot of an idea right now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've heard that contraction is more likely than relocation.

It's funny, as a Sox fan, when I tell people I don't hate the Cubs (don't really care about them at all, to be honest), they look at me like I'm crazy.

I hate the Twins and I realllly hate the Tribe. I took glee when the Sox went into Cleveland after clinching in Detroit and bounced the Tribe from the wild card while playing their bench for a three game sweep.

Screw the Twins and most certainly screw the Tribe!!!!

you just hate the Twins cuz they usually kill the Sox come September

Twins are hearing dreaded 'C' word again

The politicians should be paying attention, because contraction involving the Twins and Marlins makes too much sense right now to be ignored.

Patrick Reusse, Star Tribune
Last update: February 11, 2006

Contraction reared its ugly head again this week when Gov. Tim Pawlenty played host to a meeting among Twins officials and political leaders. The twist was that the dreaded "C" word first was uttered by the governor and not Jerry Bell, the lead man in the Twins' ballpark efforts.
Hennepin County Commissioner Mike Opat, who has jeopardized his political future more than anyone in this ballpark battle, was in attendance.

"When the governor laid out the reasons that contraction could be something to be concerned over, Jerry Bell did correct him somewhat," Opat said. "He said it wouldn't be easily done, since baseball would be required to bargain the effects of contraction with the players [union]."

Opat said in his many conversations with Bell and other Twins officials that the possibility of contraction had not been raised.

"The Twins have conducted themselves in good faith through this whole process," Opat said. "Now, if they get to the point where they say, 'We've taken it as far as we can,' I don't expect them to tell me their strategy.

"After a couple of false starts, I'm sure baseball isn't going to say anything in advance about contraction. If it happens, it will be when we're past the point of no return."

There is no denying this: Major League Baseball has two franchises absolutely ripe for contraction after the 2006 season in the Twins and Florida.

These are baseball's two most underperforming markets. The big-revenue franchises have grown disgusted with handing $20 million to $25 million per year apiece to teams located in what should be lucrative markets.

Baseball could buy out owners Carl Pohlad and Jeff Loria for $200 million to $225 million apiece and pay it off in a hurry with the savings in revenue sharing. For sure, contraction makes much more sense for baseball than trying to find new locales for the Twins and the Marlins.

The timetable as laid out in the basic agreement between the owners and the players also fits perfectly with the Twins reaching the decision, "We've taken it as far as we can."

The agreement states the following: "The Clubs [management] shall have the right ... to reduce by as many as two the number of Major League Clubs effective for the 2007 championship season."

According to the document, the clubs must notify the players of any decision to cut teams effective for 2007 no later than July 1, 2006. The owners also must deliver a tentative schedule at that time, thus revealing the names of the teams to be eliminated.

Presumably, Minnesota's 2006 legislative session will be well over before July 1. If the Hennepin County ballpark bill dies, the Twins officially can call it the end of the line.

And if a bill gets passed with a requirement for a referendum? Sorry, there's no time, the ballpark's supporters can say, not with that July 1 deadline for a contraction decision.

The players have agreed in this basic agreement not to take up a National Labor Relations Act challenge to contraction. They do have the right to bargain the effects. The best guess is the players would wind up with more players on the big-league rosters -- say 27, not 25, during the season, and 43 not 40 on the protected list.

This basic agreement expires after this season. There's little chance the language will be as favorable to contraction the next time around. So, if baseball is going to reduce itself to 28 franchises, this is the moment.

Carl Pohlad is now 90. When contraction failed in the winter of 2001-02, his son Jim took a big interest in trying to restore the credibility of the franchise. He didn't want the Pohlad name to be associated with the loss of baseball in Minnesota.

The Hennepin County deal offered last April was advanced as the Pohlads' last, best effort to guarantee baseball's future in Minnesota. If a clean version of that deal doesn't come out of this legislative session, Jim can with clear conscience join his brothers Bob and Bill in wanting no part of owning a baseball team.

Bell and Twins President Dave St. Peter consistently have shrugged off contraction as a renewed possibility. Commissioner Bud Selig will remain dismissive of the notion, rather than allow political and public opposition to escalate as was the case in 2001-02.

But Pawlenty had it right this week at his meeting: Elimination of the Twins (and the Marlins) makes too much sense to be ignored.

- - - -

Here's another blurb on the matter from the Strib:

Twins owner Carl Pohlad, 86, and his son Jim leave the Major League Baseball meeting in Chicago late Tuesday. A vote was taken, and the Twins are one of the teams being considered for contraction.

this blurb is 4 years old

So this means the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are actually doing better than the Twins (commercially speaking)? How does THAT happen?

No, it just means that Bud prefers to contract the Twins in the belief that their fans will then support the Brewers.

Really? It came up when I copy and pasted that 2/11/06 article. Oh well. Just disregard.

I love the Sox and have zero love for the Twins. I'd still hate to see the Twins fold up their tents. Sox don't have enough good rivals.

This pretty much sums up my stance. Dude's a billionaire. If he really cared, couldn't he contribute a little more scratch to get this new stadium built? Still, given the legislative heel-dragging and tightwad billionaires and such, I have a feeling we'll see some real movement--maybe even closure--on a Twins stadium deal this year. I'm a life-long born-and-raised Sox fan (dad's a south-sider) who now finds himself living up here in the belly of the beast but losing the Twins would be wrong--especially given East Bay J's notion of the Selig/Brewers angle...

I still have a picture of Doug Mientkiewicz I cut out of the Pioneer Press a few years back with the caption (his quote in reference to the White Sox late in the season) "They're done". I even blacked out one of Dougie's teeth. Heh-heh, it's still kind of fun to stumble upon that little scrap--even though he was long-gone by the time the Sox made that historic run last year. It's been an exceptionally good rivalry since I moved up here in 2001. Listening to the hometown call on the radio up here still makes my blood boil, but I love it.

Sam, don't worry. The judge ruling was a tactic by team Pohlad to kick the Minnesota legislature in the butt to get moving on a stadium bill. They have no prospects for moving and they won't be contracted for a few years. There's just too much red tape.

I'll write more later.

Minneapolis converting into Brewers fans? Ain't happening.

What other 'underperforming' franchises are there?

My friends and I take a baseball trip every year, and two years ago we went to the Metrodome. What a dump. It must be hard to get excited about a team when you have to watch them 81 times a year there. I'm no fan of contracting the Twins, even though I hate them, but an outdoor (retractable roof?) stadium sure would be sweet, local interest would have to go through the roof. Of course, many people hate Comiskey, but screw em, it's great. You couldn't say the same about the Twinkie dome with a straight face.

Yeah, they should've ditched the Metrodome the way the Astros ditched the Astrodome.

We're talking about the genius mind of Bud Selig, used car salesman.



the Cubs?

I don't think stadiums should be payed by taxpayers, its corporate welfare. Especially football stadiums, how much can they really contribute to the local economy in 10 homes games?
Sports team always pull the same crap, I recall the sox threatening to move to Florida.

Here's the current proposal. Would be in downtown Minneapolis over by the Target Center (where the T'Wolves play and sorta by First Ave). Roof is unlikely, even if the thing gets passed, imo, but its in the sketch.



This would be all sorts of awesome:

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Assuming the Twins get contracted (which I hope doesn't happen), 2004 was the last gasp for the Sox/Twins rivalry, because the Sox dominated last year and the AL Central will be a battle between the Sox and Indians this year.

What are you saying? Extending a minor league contract to 86 year old Reuben Sierra as our sole attempt to bring in a big bat doesn't strike fear into the hearts of the (improved) world champs?

The team should develop a project to clone Johan Santana. That would strike some fear in the hearts of the AL Central.

Too bad he can't hit, though.

Minor update from today's (2/19/06) Sid Hartman collumn in the Strib discussing the push for a new Vikings stadium:

Meanwhile, if the Twins can get Gov. Tim Pawlenty on board, there is a good chance that the Hennepin County baseball plan would pass in the Legislature. House Speaker Steve Sviggum is on board and is convinced the votes in favor of a stadium without a referendum are available in the House. Some work needs to be done in the Senate, but there is some positive news there too.

Major League Baseball would do itself a disservice by contracting the Twins. Not only would they lose support in Minnesota, but they would also lose fans in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Western Wisconsin and Northern Iowa.

Also, the Twins are in a great position coming into the last season--they are not the kings of the division. I think it will suite them well and allow them to play better baseball. Every publication seems to think of the Twins as an afterthought and the Sox and Indians as the premiere teams of the Central division.

I see the Twins surprising those experts this year.

His name is Francisco (Cisco Kid) Liriano. His fastball is around 95 (2 mph harder than Johan) and his out pitch is a hard slider instead of a change-up. He'll be up full time mid-way through the season when Kyle Lohse gets traded. He'll be dominant in 2007.

MLB could lose the Marlins and the Devil Rays and no one would notice
least of all the people in FL

Yes. Liriano looks like the real deal. It appears that he might jusitfy all the hype as the "best left-handed pitching prospect in the minor leagues" that he's been tagged with the last few years.

He was tantalizing when he got called up last season. Dinged around a bit due to inexperience, but the stuff is there.

And it isn't like Scott Baker is dogmeat, either. Santana -> Liriano -> Silva -> Baker -> Radke/Derogatis/Who Cares would be an insane starting rotation come '07 (and possible late '06 even).

Sammy Sosa is still availble

Looks like the Twins are going to get a new stadium. The committee work is done, the State House and Senate both have the votes to pass it, and the governor will sign it.

Should be official this weekend . . . and built just in time for the squad to be good again.

http://www.startribune.com/587/story/442967.html

Damn, outdoor major league baseball will be great to have up here. Yeah, a few games are gonna be cold and wet, so what. The trade off would be the days such as today--mid 70s and sunny. Anything beats looking at that black baggy in right and that roof. I guess I don't know my Minneapolis geography well eonugh to note what sort of vistas would await those who make it to this park.

Great news.

Say what you will about the Dome, the sightlines mop the floor with Wrigley Field.

Well, it will be right next to a garbage processing plant, so the smell will be fantastic I'm sure. As for the view from the stadium, I posted a thumbnail a few posts up of an artist's rendering. I think it looks nice.